the problems with html posts (was: What Happened to "Insert"?)

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the problems with html posts (was: What Happened to "Insert"?)

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.

It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
Mozilla clients.)

> And this newsgroup says otherwise.

Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.

> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.

That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general

> The HTML haters never learn.

One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
nested inside <blockquote> tags:

-----
        That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
        which I
        <br>
        can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
        verbatim.
        <br>
        <br>
        Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
        contrary
        <br>
        to the guidelines.
        <br>
-----

What's not to hate?  (c;
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Re: the problems with html posts

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
»Q« <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>
> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to
> mozilla.general

Well, I screwed that up.  Sorry.

If replying to my previous post, please manually remove m.s.thunderbird
from the Newsgroups header.

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Re: the problems with html posts

WaltS48
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 10/04/2014 10:13 AM, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.
>
> It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
> of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
> being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
> Mozilla clients.)
>
>> And this newsgroup says otherwise.
>
> Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.
>
>> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>
> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general
>
>> The HTML haters never learn.
>
> One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
> godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
> nested inside <blockquote> tags:
>
> -----
>          That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
>          which I
>          <br>
>          can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
>          verbatim.
>          <br>
>          <br>
>          Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
>          contrary
>          <br>
>          to the guidelines.
>          <br>
> -----
>
> What's not to hate?  (c;
>


Oops! Your last address entry wasn't a Followup-To: mozilla.general.

Anyway, I was reading somewhere yesterday that there were 2.3 million
AOL ISP users that are still on dial-up. Probably just a fraction of the
total users that are still on dial-up.

Imagine that many connecting to these newsgroups with HTML posts that
include images.

Then they have to decide if they want to allow remote content from
someone they don't know to see the image. I know I won't allow remote
content.

Stick with plain text for newsgroups.

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Re: the problems with html posts

Ed Mullen-9
In reply to this post by »Q«
»Q« wrote on 10/4/2014 10:13 AM:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.
>
> It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
> of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
> being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
> Mozilla clients.)
>
>> And this newsgroup says otherwise.
>
> Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.
>
>> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>
> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general
>
>> The HTML haters never learn.
>
> One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
> godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
> nested inside <blockquote> tags:
>
> -----
>          That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
>          which I
>          <br>
>          can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
>          verbatim.
>          <br>
>          <br>
>          Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
>          contrary
>          <br>
>          to the guidelines.
>          <br>
> -----
>
> What's not to hate?  (c;
>

What's so horrible about a few <br> tags?

They are perfectly legitimate HTML, even in HTML5.  Not desired but not
condemned.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
If a book about failures does not sell, is it a success?
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Re: the problems with html posts

😉 Good Guy 😉
On 05/10/2014 01:57, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
> What's so horrible about a few <br> tags?
>
> They are perfectly legitimate HTML, even in HTML5.  Not desired but
> not condemned.
>
>


It looks horrible if you go out of your way to read in plain text.  It is never horrible if you just read it normally without worrying whether it is HTML or plain text.

I love HTML and sooner everybody comes out of the stone age period (in technological time period) the better it will be for the mankind.




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Re: the problems with html posts

Daniel
In reply to this post by WaltS48
On 04/10/14 23:58, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 10/04/2014 10:13 AM, »Q« wrote:
>> In <news:[hidden email]>,
>> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.
>>
>> It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
>> of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
>> being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
>> Mozilla clients.)
>>
>>> And this newsgroup says otherwise.
>>
>> Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.
>>
>>> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>>
>> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general
>>
>>> The HTML haters never learn.
>>
>> One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
>> godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
>> nested inside <blockquote> tags:
>>
>> -----
>>          That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
>>          which I
>>          <br>
>>          can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
>>          verbatim.
>>          <br>
>>          <br>
>>          Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
>>          contrary
>>          <br>
>>          to the guidelines.
>>          <br>
>> -----
>>
>> What's not to hate?  (c;
>>
>
>
> Oops! Your last address entry wasn't a Followup-To: mozilla.general.
>
> Anyway, I was reading somewhere yesterday that there were 2.3 million
> AOL ISP users that are still on dial-up. Probably just a fraction of the
> total users that are still on dial-up.
>
> Imagine that many connecting to these newsgroups with HTML posts that
> include images.
>
> Then they have to decide if they want to allow remote content from
> someone they don't know to see the image. I know I won't allow remote
> content.
>
> Stick with plain text for newsgroups.
>
I'm wondering how many would know if they were sending in PT or HTML, or
would know where to look!!

--
Daniel

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Re: the problems with html posts

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
Good Guy wrote:
> I love HTML

Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't have
to see them.

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Re: the problems with html posts

WaltS48
In reply to this post by Daniel
On 10/05/2014 04:15 AM, Daniel wrote:

> On 04/10/14 23:58, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 10/04/2014 10:13 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>> In <news:[hidden email]>,
>>> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.
>>>
>>> It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
>>> of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
>>> being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
>>> Mozilla clients.)
>>>
>>>> And this newsgroup says otherwise.
>>>
>>> Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.
>>>
>>>> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>>>
>>> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general
>>>
>>>> The HTML haters never learn.
>>>
>>> One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
>>> godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
>>> nested inside <blockquote> tags:
>>>
>>> -----
>>>          That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
>>>          which I
>>>          <br>
>>>          can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
>>>          verbatim.
>>>          <br>
>>>          <br>
>>>          Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
>>>          contrary
>>>          <br>
>>>          to the guidelines.
>>>          <br>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> What's not to hate?  (c;
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oops! Your last address entry wasn't a Followup-To: mozilla.general.
>>
>> Anyway, I was reading somewhere yesterday that there were 2.3 million
>> AOL ISP users that are still on dial-up. Probably just a fraction of the
>> total users that are still on dial-up.
>>
>> Imagine that many connecting to these newsgroups with HTML posts that
>> include images.
>>
>> Then they have to decide if they want to allow remote content from
>> someone they don't know to see the image. I know I won't allow remote
>> content.
>>
>> Stick with plain text for newsgroups.
>>
> I'm wondering how many would know if they were sending in PT or HTML, or
> would know where to look!!
>


I would say a majority.

Anyway Chris has clarified his position in m.s.thunderbird.

Chris said; "The people who say HTML is not allowed are wrong.

As moderator, I'd like to clarify - Policy with regards to HTML posting
in the support newsgroups is:

Message content (what is being said) is much more important than message
format (snipping, top-posting, HTML). As long as users are being helped,
we shouldn't make a big deal out of message format. It's not something
that /should/ be policed.

In other words, we don't care about HTML vs plain-text, and neither
should you. I'm more likely to take action on *arguments* about HTML vs
plain-text.  If someone complains that a message cannot be read, just
re-post in plain-text.

We have a very low amount of HTML posts anyway, and I assume just as low
amount of subscribers unable to read an HTML message."

REF:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.support.thunderbird/kOti4pn3lSs/RU0KzFOBzNAJ>

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Re: the problems with html posts

»Q«
In reply to this post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Good Guy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 05/10/2014 01:57, Ed Mullen wrote:
> >
> > What's so horrible about a few <br> tags?
> >
> > They are perfectly legitimate HTML, even in HTML5.  Not desired but
> > not condemned.

True.  They're only mildly horrible.  ;)

> It looks horrible if you go out of your way to read in plain text.
> It is never horrible if you just read it normally without worrying
> whether it is HTML or plain text.

The html produced by Thunderbird looks awful no matter what
html rendering engine I use.

> I love HTML and sooner everybody comes out of the stone age period
> (in technological time period) the better it will be for the mankind.

IMO, anyone who actually loves html shouldn't post the html you
post.  Your post to which I'm replying is formatted just as badly as
the on David Ross printed to show you not long ago,
<http://www.rossde.com/test/HTMLformatted_msg.pdf>.
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Re: the problems with html posts

Morganna
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 04-Oct-2014 10:13, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Larry Gusaas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> If some people refuse to read HTML messages, that is their problem.
>
> It's also a problem for posters, which is why the guidelines warn users
> of the risk they run in posting html.  (Another thing they risk is
> being told what a Bad Idea it is to post html, especially with
> Mozilla clients.)
>
>> And this newsgroup says otherwise.
>
> Don't pretend to speak for "this newsgroup", please.
>
>> This subject has been discussed endlessly on this newsgroup.
>
> That's true.  I'm crossposting and setting followups to mozilla.general
>
>> The HTML haters never learn.
>
> One thing we learn when viewing the html Thunderbird produces is what a
> godawful Thunderbird does.  Here's a bit of the html of your post,
> nested inside <blockquote> tags:
>
> -----
>          That is not how I remember the wording from the guidelines,
>          which I
>          <br>
>          can't locate at the moment. Perhaps you could quote them
>          verbatim.
>          <br>
>          <br>
>          Too many people object to the use of HTML on this newsgroup
>          contrary
>          <br>
>          to the guidelines.
>          <br>
> -----
>
> What's not to hate?  (c;
>

This is your problem:
Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.24; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

Back you go to my kill file.
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Re: the problems with html posts

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Morganna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is your problem:
> Newsreader: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.24; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

Hi, Morgana!  You're an idiot.  :-)

> Back you go to my kill file.

IME, the people who feel the need to announce plonks publicly are
the least capable of actually plonking anyone.  Better luck this time.




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Re: the problems with html posts

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
»Q« <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Newsgroups: mozilla.support.thunderbird,mozilla.general
 
> Hi, Morgana!  You're an idiot.  :-)

Sorry for posting a personal attack in m.s.thunderbird.  (It compounds
my earlier error in not setting followups properly in my first post in
the thread.)  I assume Chris will remove it when he sees it.



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Re: the problems with html posts

Ray_Net
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote, On 05/10/2014 11:50:
> Good Guy wrote:
>> I love HTML
>
> Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
> have to see them.
>
That's their problem :-) I say that because i remember that i had an
explanation of my problem ... that i can only show in html.
Sometimes HTML format is needed.
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Re: the problems with html posts

»Q«
In <news:-[hidden email]>,
Ray_Net <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote, On 05/10/2014 11:50:
> > Good Guy wrote:  
> >> I love HTML  
> >
> > Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
> > have to see them.
> >  
> That's their problem :-) I say that because i remember that i had an
> explanation of my problem ... that i can only show in html.
> Sometimes HTML format is needed.

Not needed -- without having to see your post, the solution to your
problem is to turn off html posting.
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Re: the problems with html posts

😉 Good Guy 😉
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
On 05/10/2014 10:50, Mike Easter wrote:

 >
 > Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
 > have to see them.
 >

Well in that case I just have to sit in one room and cry like a baby. (:


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Re: the problems with html posts

Ray_Net
In reply to this post by »Q«
»Q« wrote, On 05/10/2014 22:29:

> In <news:-[hidden email]>,
> Ray_Net <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Mike Easter wrote, On 05/10/2014 11:50:
>>> Good Guy wrote:
>>>> I love HTML
>>> Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
>>> have to see them.
>>>  
>> That's their problem :-) I say that because i remember that i had an
>> explanation of my problem ... that i can only show in html.
>> Sometimes HTML format is needed.
> Not needed -- without having to see your post, the solution to your
> problem is to turn off html posting.
Just what i said .... needed sometimes ...
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Re: the problems with html posts

Ed Mullen-9
In reply to this post by Ray_Net
Ray_Net wrote on 10/5/2014 4:10 PM:

> Mike Easter wrote, On 05/10/2014 11:50:
>> Good Guy wrote:
>>> I love HTML
>>
>> Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
>> have to see them.
>>
> That's their problem :-) I say that because i remember that i had an
> explanation of my problem ... that i can only show in html.
> Sometimes HTML format is needed.

It is YOUR problem if you ask a question and the useful
solutions/answers aren't given simply because the people with the
answers ignore you because you're posting in HTML.  Get it?

I'm not one of them but your HTML formatted posts annoy the crap out of
me.  Given my default settings all plain-text posts are delightfully
readable.  Your HTML posts are highly UN-readable.  Have you noticed
that the vast majority of posts on this server are plain text?  Do you
have any desire to fit into the community?  Or are you just deliberately
trying to piss people off?

We'll all eagerly await your reply and act accordingly.

--
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http://edmullen.net/
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
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Re: the problems with html posts

😉 Good Guy 😉
On 05/10/2014 23:41, Ed Mullen wrote:
> Or are you just deliberately  trying to piss people off?
 >
 > We'll all eagerly await your reply and act accordingly.
 >

I can only speak for myself and I have joined a group of HTML users who
likes to promote modern day technologies and so the community I belong
to is likely to be 2014 ones.  Do you belong to the 2014 group of
technology savvy individuals?  If not then please join here:

<http://forum.joomla.org/index.php>




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Re: the problems with html posts

Ed Mullen-9
Good Guy wrote on 10/5/2014 8:44 PM:

> On 05/10/2014 23:41, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> Or are you just deliberately  trying to piss people off?
>  >
>  > We'll all eagerly await your reply and act accordingly.
>  >
>
> I can only speak for myself and I have joined a group of HTML users who
> likes to promote modern day technologies and so the community I belong
> to is likely to be 2014 ones.  Do you belong to the 2014 group of
> technology savvy individuals?  If not then please join here:
>
> <http://forum.joomla.org/index.php>
>
>
>
>

Good for you.  Please un-join us here in this forum.  You are merely an
irritant here and haven't contributed anything of value to our efforts.
Go away, please.

--
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http://edmullen.net/
"The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between
the notes—ah, that is where the art resides." - Artur Schnabel
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Re: the problems with html posts

Ray_Net
In reply to this post by Ed Mullen-9
Ed Mullen wrote, On 06/10/2014 00:41:

> Ray_Net wrote on 10/5/2014 4:10 PM:
>> Mike Easter wrote, On 05/10/2014 11:50:
>>> Good Guy wrote:
>>>> I love HTML
>>>
>>> Some people will be making your posts disappear so that they don't
>>> have to see them.
>>>
>> That's their problem :-) I say that because i remember that i had an
>> explanation of my problem ... that i can only show in html.
>> Sometimes HTML format is needed.
>
> It is YOUR problem if you ask a question and the useful
> solutions/answers aren't given simply because the people with the
> answers ignore you because you're posting in HTML.  Get it?
>
> I'm not one of them but your HTML formatted posts annoy the crap out
> of me.  Given my default settings all plain-text posts are
> delightfully readable.  Your HTML posts are highly UN-readable. Have
> you noticed that the vast majority of posts on this server are plain
> text?  Do you have any desire to fit into the community?  Or are you
> just deliberately trying to piss people off?
>
> We'll all eagerly await your reply and act accordingly.
>
Your reply is too much agressive, so i will not answer your questions.
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