banned from newsgroup

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Billy Holmes
Jay Garcia wrote:
> File Sharing:
>  

[snip]

that's just silly.

how did you share files before there was P2P? I guess you didn't?

Oh wait.. we emailed them, or sent links to people via email or via web
forums..

oh.. and via news groups!

in both binary and link form.


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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 12/5/07 9:56 PM, _Jay Garcia_ spoke thusly:

> On 05.12.2007 20:39, Chris Ilias wrote:
>> Which is why I assumed his other posts were tests. :-) This time, I saw
>> the thread which caused him to post. Regardless if the file is hosted on
>> the newsgroup, he is still using the newsgroup for file sharing.
>
> File Sharing:
>
> File sharing usually follows the peer-to-peer (P2P) model, where the
> files are stored on and served by personal computers of the users. Most
> people who engage in file sharing on the Internet both provide (upload)
> files and receive files (download).
>
> P2P file sharing is distinct from file trading in that downloading files
> from a P2P network does not require uploading, although some networks
> either provide incentives for uploading such as credits or forcing the
> sharing of files being currently downloaded.
>
> Peter did not and has not engaged in "file sharing". He provided a link
> to an mp3 file for Reg to test out and report back to the group for
> further support.

There was nothing to indicate that was a test. In the discussion leading
up to his post in MTMM, they were talking about finding songs, not how
to post/read messages. He simply wanted reg to hear the tune.

> For further clarification so that all users may benefit, please post all
> the specific instances and names of files that Peter shared, by
> definition, in MTMM .. thanks.

You'll have to ask Peter/Grant/etc. that. He's the one that stated "I've
been doing it for some time", when I told him not to "use this newsgroup
for binary sharing".

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Leonidas Jones-2
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias wrote:

> On 12/5/07 9:51 PM, _Ed Mullen_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> There's where I disagree. He admitted that he uses MTMM for file
>>> sharing [1]; so there's no clear way to determine the intent of his
>>> posts.
>>>
>>> [1]<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/msg/3897fb7e481a90f9>
>>
>>
>> He didn't share a file.  He posted a link to a file.
>
> If I want to share a file with you, I can either post a link to it, or
> attach it to my message. Either way, I'm sharing it.
>
>>  Your interpretation notwithstanding, he didn't "admit" anything in
>> the post you cited.  
>
> So you're saying he misinterpreted what I said?

Oh come on Chris, this is just getting stupid!!! You are wrong here,
just plain and simply wrong. You can't defend it.  You made a mistake,
we all have.  Just admit and lets move on.

Lee
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
On 12/5/07 10:11 PM, _Leonidas Jones_ spoke thusly:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 12/5/07 9:51 PM, _Ed Mullen_ spoke thusly:
>>
>>> He didn't share a file.  He posted a link to a file.
>>
>> If I want to share a file with you, I can either post a link to it, or
>> attach it to my message. Either way, I'm sharing it.
>>
>>>  Your interpretation notwithstanding, he didn't "admit" anything in
>>> the post you cited.  
>>
>> So you're saying he misinterpreted what I said?
>
> Oh come on Chris, this is just getting stupid!!! You are wrong here,
> just plain and simply wrong. You can't defend it.  You made a mistake,
> we all have.  Just admit and lets move on.

I don't know how else to respond to you, because you didn't indicate
why. All I can say is that I disagree.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Moz Champion (Dan)
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias wrote:

> On 12/5/07 9:56 PM, _Jay Garcia_ spoke thusly:
>> On 05.12.2007 20:39, Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> Which is why I assumed his other posts were tests. :-) This time, I
>>> saw the thread which caused him to post. Regardless if the file is
>>> hosted on the newsgroup, he is still using the newsgroup for file
>>> sharing.
>>
>> File Sharing:
>>
>> File sharing usually follows the peer-to-peer (P2P) model, where the
>> files are stored on and served by personal computers of the users. Most
>> people who engage in file sharing on the Internet both provide (upload)
>> files and receive files (download).
>>
>> P2P file sharing is distinct from file trading in that downloading files
>> from a P2P network does not require uploading, although some networks
>> either provide incentives for uploading such as credits or forcing the
>> sharing of files being currently downloaded.
>>
>> Peter did not and has not engaged in "file sharing". He provided a link
>> to an mp3 file for Reg to test out and report back to the group for
>> further support.
>
> There was nothing to indicate that was a test. In the discussion leading
> up to his post in MTMM, they were talking about finding songs, not how
> to post/read messages. He simply wanted reg to hear the tune.
>
>> For further clarification so that all users may benefit, please post all
>> the specific instances and names of files that Peter shared, by
>> definition, in MTMM .. thanks.
>
> You'll have to ask Peter/Grant/etc. that. He's the one that stated "I've
> been doing it for some time", when I told him not to "use this newsgroup
> for binary sharing".
>

May I ask a question at this point?

What is the value of a 'Multimedia' newsgroup if one is not allowed to
post multimedia?

You could just as well have focused on images, rather than mp3s, as a
'reason' for your actions. If someone posts an image that is copyrighted
by someone (whether or not the poster was aware of such or not), they
were doing no more (or less) than what the person here did with an mp3 file.

So by some interpretation, calling posting an mp3 file as 'file sharing'
means that you will have to additionally call posting image files as
'file sharing'.

As far as I can see, current actions will lead to the absolute DEMISE of
multimedia via/on Mozilla, lest everyone be termed 'file sharing' simply
for posting a link.

For example, below here is a link, that leads directly to a copyrighted
image
http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/activity/a/american/progress/FAP-Copyrighted.gif

Does that make me guilty of 'file sharing'?
Twas no more than what someone else did except with an mp3 instead of a
.gif file
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Moz Champion (Dan)
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias wrote:

> On 12/5/07 10:11 PM, _Leonidas Jones_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 12/5/07 9:51 PM, _Ed Mullen_ spoke thusly:
>>>
>>>> He didn't share a file.  He posted a link to a file.
>>>
>>> If I want to share a file with you, I can either post a link to it,
>>> or attach it to my message. Either way, I'm sharing it.
>>>
>>>>  Your interpretation notwithstanding, he didn't "admit" anything in
>>>> the post you cited.  
>>>
>>> So you're saying he misinterpreted what I said?
>>
>> Oh come on Chris, this is just getting stupid!!! You are wrong here,
>> just plain and simply wrong. You can't defend it.  You made a mistake,
>> we all have.  Just admit and lets move on.
>
> I don't know how else to respond to you, because you didn't indicate
> why. All I can say is that I disagree.


Tell me Chris, are you gong to ban images in the newsgroup as well?

They are absolutely the same as mp3s, except they are visual instead of
audio based.

http://stuff.mit.edu/afs/athena/activity/a/american/progress/FAP-Copyrighted.gif

There! the above is a copyrighted image (I plead fair use doctrine)
posted exactly as the other person posted an mp3. Am I to be banned now
because I am using this newsgroup as a 'file sharing' utility?

While posting of 'copyrighted' images/sounds/files is certainly to be
avoided in a multimedia newsgroup, and there should be concern expressed
over the use of such, calling such use a 'file ahsring' is inapropriate.

I guess you will ban me now, after all I 'posted' an image link in a
NON-IMAGE newsgroup! And it was COPYRIGHTED as well! OMG, no everyone
can go follow the link and the file is SHARED!

Whereas the other person posted an audio link in a MULTIMEDIA newsgroup.
Said file may or may not have been copyrighted.


So tell me why I am not banned for this post?
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by Moz Champion (Dan)
On 12/5/07 11:46 PM, _Moz Champion (Dan)_ spoke thusly:
> May I ask a question at this point?
>
> What is the value of a 'Multimedia' newsgroup if one is not allowed to
> post multimedia?

Posting multimedia per se is not what is disallowed. It's the reason for
posting it. Is one testing the MM capabilities of the Mozilla-based news
client, or is the intent simply to post something one thinks others
would like to see/hear? It's a question of intent.

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List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird, test-multimedia
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Re: banned from newsgroup

»Q«
In reply to this post by »Q«
Billy Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> »Q« wrote:
> > Aww, now, c'mon, it was so bad on gentoo-dev that they added new
> > lists to try to divert the juvenile noise.  
>
> I haven't subscribed to gentoo-dev, but being on gentoo-server,
> gentoo-amd64, and gentoo-user, everyone is pretty cordial and actually
> takes the criticism well.

The user lists are good, I agree.

The dev list goes in cycles, calm for a while then massive flamewars.
I unsubscribed a little while after drobbins rejoined then re-resigned.
ISTM the devs who are getting things done mostly avoid the list, so
it's not a good way to keep tabs on what's going on.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Leonidas Jones-2
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 12/5/07 10:11 PM, _Leonidas Jones_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 12/5/07 9:51 PM, _Ed Mullen_ spoke thusly:
/snip/
>>
>> Oh come on Chris, this is just getting stupid!!! You are wrong here,
>> just plain and simply wrong. You can't defend it.  You made a mistake,
>> we all have.  Just admit and lets move on.
>
> I don't know how else to respond to you, because you didn't indicate
> why. All I can say is that I disagree.

Chris,

I kept telling myself not to respond on this, several times, but it just
got to be too much.

I'll take a bit of a break, and send you an email on the matter this
weekend. I am very concerned about the direction these groups have
taken, but I should not have posted it so publicly and for that I do
apologize.

Lee
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in
news:[hidden email]:

> On 12/5/07 6:50 PM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in news:-
>> [hidden email]:
>>
>>> I just can't trust you on MTMM.
>>>
>>
>> The problem, Chris, is that increasingly WE can't trust YOU.
>>
>> I've followed this issue; you are clearly in the wrong on
>> this issue.  He did not misuse the group, his post was not
>> off-topic.  his post on MTMM is consistent with its use since
>> its creation.
>
> There's where I disagree. He admitted that he uses MTMM for
> file sharing [1]; so there's no clear way to determine the
> intent of his posts.
>

Well, Ilias, that's a complete and utter lie.  We can add lying
to your growing list of failings.

He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a
problem with HTML rendering - links weren't opening. A lot of us
refer people to MTMM to test out HTML and embedded code, because
that's what that group was originally created for.

You tasked him for using the group to test the link, he protested
that he's been using the group for this purpose for years, and
you've twisted it into an admission of file sharing.  What a
pr**k!

Now I've lost all respect for you.  You have GOT to go.


--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

Prudence is a rich, ugly old maid courted by incapacity.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in news:0Lidnc2n6umk-
[hidden email]:

>
> So you're saying he misinterpreted what I said?

No, YOU misinterpreted pretty much everything.

Gerv, dump this idiot now!!

--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

All in all it's just another brick in the wall...
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in
news:[hidden email]:

> I don't know how else to respond to you, because you didn't
> indicate why. All I can say is that I disagree.

The fact is you don't have your facts straight, and this isn't
the first time.

Making mistakes is one thing: failing to acknowledge them is
another.

You have GOT to go.

--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

"I think that's how Chicago got started. A bunch of people in New
York
said,'Gee, I'm enjoying the crime and the poverty, but it just
isn't cold
enough.Let's go west.'"  - Richard Jeni

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by Christopher Jahn
On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a
> problem with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.

Here's the original thread:
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ed40befb309d1559>

Here's his post in MTMM:
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/msg/dac4f4784f33b169>

Where is there anything in those posts having to do with HTML rendering
problems?

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Billy Holmes
In reply to this post by »Q«
»Q« wrote:
> The dev list goes in cycles, calm for a while then massive flamewars.
> I unsubscribed a little while after drobbins rejoined then re-resigned.
>  

I guess if I get bored of the name calling here, I can always join
gentoo-dev to get another fix of it.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in
news:[hidden email]:

> On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a
>> problem with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.
>
>
> Where is there anything in those posts having to do with HTML
> rendering problems?


For that matter, where is he actually doing any file sharing?

Ilias, you are worthless, and it's time for you to step down.  
Buh-bye.


--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

What a useless scroll, all it says is "Hastur Hastur Hastur"
over and over again.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
On 12/6/07 1:46 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:

> Chris Ilias <[hidden email]> wrote in
> news:[hidden email]:
>
>> On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>>> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a
>>> problem with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.
>>
>> Where is there anything in those posts having to do with HTML
>> rendering problems?
>
> For that matter, where is he actually doing any file sharing?

<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/msg/dac4f4784f33b169>
As I said, it doesn't matter if it's a link or attached to the message.
The point is that he was testing anything. He just wanted reg to hear
the tune.

So where is there anything in those posts I linked to earlier, about
HTML rendering problems? :-)
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
On 12/6/07 1:51 AM, _Chris Ilias_ spoke thusly:
> The point is that he was testing anything.

Um..er.. *wasn't* testing anything... :-)

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Lester Caine
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias-2
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a problem
>> with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.
>
> Here's the original thread:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ed40befb309d1559>

Reading further in that thread - a link was posted to the music under
discussion which was not working and then the discussion drifted to WHY NOT.

> Here's his post in MTMM:
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/msg/dac4f4784f33b169>

The discussion is moved TO the multimedia list where the link SHOULD work in
order to prove a point.

> Where is there anything in those posts having to do with HTML rendering
> problems?

The discussion may have been a little 'general' on the general list, but the
reason for moving to multimedia was BECAUSE of a problem that needed checking
out.

Quoting single messages out of context does not help your case, and referring
us to the GOOGLE crap should be a bannable offence !!!

--
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-----------------------------
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Chris Ilias-2
On 12/6/07 2:57 AM, _Lester Caine_ spoke thusly:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>>> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a problem
>>> with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.
>>
>> Here's the original thread:
>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ed40befb309d1559>
>
> Reading further in that thread - a link was posted to the music under
> discussion which was not working and then the discussion drifted to WHY
> NOT.

Could you please point me to the post in which someone said the link was
not working? The only technical issue I see discussed is at
<http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ad31b84846663e95>
and its subsequent replies. Is that what you are referring to?

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Lester Caine
Chris Ilias wrote:

> On 12/6/07 2:57 AM, _Lester Caine_ spoke thusly:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> On 12/6/07 1:06 AM, _Christopher Jahn_ spoke thusly:
>>>> He wasn't "file sharing."  He was helping a user suss out a problem
>>>> with HTML rendering - links weren't opening.
>>>
>>> Here's the original thread:
>>> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ed40befb309d1559>
>>
>> Reading further in that thread - a link was posted to the music under
>> discussion which was not working and then the discussion drifted to
>> WHY NOT.
>
> Could you please point me to the post in which someone said the link was
> not working? The only technical issue I see discussed is at
> <http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.general/msg/ad31b84846663e95>
> and its subsequent replies. Is that what you are referring to?

Pass - not seeing it now - but I only subscribed *TO* the multimedia list
because of the problem with the original post!
The ORIGINAL post on my local archive still does not work for me and Peter
posted an alternative link - as far as I am concerned as a test - on the
multimedia list so we could check it out. The test link works fine, but I
still can't see what is wrong with the original. GIVEN the increasing problems
with new versions of SeaMonkey being ABLE to test things is important and if
we can't do that on test lists then why the **** bother providing them.

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
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