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banned from newsgroup

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Chris Ilias wrote:
> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.

I'm now the first person to be banned from a mozilla
newsgroup.  Where are the guidelines for banning people.
There's nothing on the etiquette page:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html and there is
nothing within the cancellation page that says so:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html

And who gave you the authority to ban people from
newsgroups.  I don't think you have that authority to do
that.  You only have the authority for the list, not the group.

Is this how things are run in the news.mozilla.org server:
The Lunacy of one person has the power to ban people, and on
a whim?  Is this how people are treaded within these
newsgroups?  I think this one individual has a problem
himself, and his position within the mozilla news server AND
the mozilla lists should be critically examined.  Gerv and
Dave, is this the way people are treated.

cross posted to mozilla.general and mozilla.dev.mozilla-org
with followup to mozilla.general

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Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Justin Wood (Callek)-2
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>

....what were you banned _for_ ?

 > You only have the authority
> for the list, not the group.

Of course, the list is the same as the newsgroup in practice.  All
newsgroup posts go to the list, and vice-versa.

~Justin Wood (Callek)
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
> ....what were you banned _for_ ?

http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169

--
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disregarded!!!!

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
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Re: banned from newsgroup

squaredancer
On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter Potamus
the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :

> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>  
>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>    
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>      
>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>        
>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>    
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169
>
>  

let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came from!
We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an idiot!  
He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally some
moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!

reg
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Re: banned from newsgroup

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Justin Wood (Callek)-2
Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>
>
> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>
>  > You only have the authority
>> for the list, not the group.
>
> Of course, the list is the same as the newsgroup in practice.  All
> newsgroup posts go to the list, and vice-versa.
>
> ~Justin Wood (Callek)

He was banned supposedly send a live binary copy of a Song "the Lion
Sleeps Tonight" a copyrighted song.

When it actuality the song was linked from a Licensed website that has
license to allow playing of  the song.

--
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If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
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Re: banned from newsgroup

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by squaredancer
squaredancer wrote:

> On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter Potamus
> the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>  
>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>>        
>>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>>    
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169 
>>
>>
>>  
>
> let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came from!
> We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an idiot!  
> He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally some
> moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!
>
> reg

Wish I could but the latest versions of SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird don't
allow it. (Mac version). I've even tried to set SSL methods in about
Config and still won't allow it.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET                                http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9               Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: banned from newsgroup

squaredancer
On 04.12.2007 18:19, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T to generate the following:? :

> squaredancer wrote:
>  
>> On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter Potamus
>> the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
>>    
>>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>>      
>>>>>          
>>>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>>>        
>>>>>>            
>>>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>      
>> let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came from!
>> We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an idiot!  
>> He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally some
>> moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!
>>
>> reg
>>    
>
> Wish I could but the latest versions of SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird don't
> allow it. (Mac version). I've even tried to set SSL methods in about
> Config and still won't allow it.
>
>  


PING Jay Garcia - he may know a method for Macs

reg
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Re: banned from newsgroup

squaredancer
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
On 04.12.2007 18:15, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Phillip M.
Jones, C.E.T to generate the following:? :

> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>  
>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>    
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>      
>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>        
>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>
>>  > You only have the authority
>>    
>>> for the list, not the group.
>>>      
>> Of course, the list is the same as the newsgroup in practice.  All
>> newsgroup posts go to the list, and vice-versa.
>>
>> ~Justin Wood (Callek)
>>    
>
> He was banned supposedly send a live binary copy of a Song "the Lion
> Sleeps Tonight" a copyrighted song.
>
> When it actuality the song was linked from a Licensed website that has
> license to allow playing of  the song.
>
>  

he was banned because Chris Illi-ass was playing god - and got his
heavenly knickers crossed, so that they squeezed his balls into a knot!

reg
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Re: banned from newsgroup

JoeS-3
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:

> squaredancer wrote:
>> On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter
>> Potamus the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
>>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>>    
>>>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>>>        
>>>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>>>    
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>
>> let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came
>> from!
>> We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an
>> idiot!  He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally
>> some moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!
>>
>> reg
>
> Wish I could but the latest versions of SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird don't
> allow it. (Mac version). I've even tried to set SSL methods in about
> Config and still won't allow it.
>
The pref that should enable secnews is this one:
security.ssl3.rsa_rc2_40_md5
But on more than 1 fresh install, I have had to add this one.
security.enable_ssl2
Or at least toggle that last pref, then put it back.
I don't think it does any harm to leave it true, since all the individual ssl2 prefs are disabled.
Joe
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Gervase Markham
In reply to this post by Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
> I'm now the first person to be banned from a mozilla newsgroup.  Where
> are the guidelines for banning people. There's nothing on the etiquette
> page: http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html and there is
> nothing within the cancellation page that says so:
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html

I assume that Chris means that he will cancel all further posts from
you, which is equivalent to a ban.

> And who gave you the authority to ban people from newsgroups.  I don't
> think you have that authority to do that.  You only have the authority
> for the list, not the group.

If I understand correctly, Chris is the moderator for
mozilla.test.multimedia , which means that he has the final say about
what gets posted there, just like any other moderator of a group/mailing
list. This is separate from his role as part of the team looking after
the support newsgroups, to which this policy refers.
http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html

> Is this how things are run in the news.mozilla.org server: The Lunacy of
> one person has the power to ban people, and on a whim?  Is this how
> people are treaded within these newsgroups?  I think this one individual
> has a problem himself, and his position within the mozilla news server
> AND the mozilla lists should be critically examined.  Gerv and Dave, is
> this the way people are treated.

Get off your high horse. If you want to make a public complaint, you can
have a public smackdown.

The message you are pointing to with such indignation is clearly,
indubitably, totally and completely off-topic for the group to which it
is posted. As, in fact, are all the other messages in the thread. So I
have no idea what makes you think you can point at it and shout "Help!
Help! I'm being oppressed!" As the moderator, Chris has every right to
keep off-topic traffic out of the group. That's what moderators do.

The Mozilla newsgroups are not anyone's personal playground or chatroom.
Their primary use is for getting project-related work done. This
particular group is for binary test posts, not for conversation of any
kind. After the point was firmly made that there needed to be non-work
groups available, mozilla.general was set aside for this. In all groups
other than mozilla.general, off-topic chatter is discouraged. It may be
discouraged using either social or technical pressure.

(Of course, a person's standing in and usefulness to the project has a
strong impact on how much leeway they get. That's right and proper.
Mozilla is a meritocracy.)

Gerv
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Terry R.
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
On 12/4/2007 9:19 AM On a whim, Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T pounded out on
the keyboard

> squaredancer wrote:
>> On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter Potamus
>> the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
>>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>>      
>>>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>>>        
>>>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>>>    
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>> let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came from!
>> We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an idiot!  
>> He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally some
>> moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!
>>
>> reg
>
> Wish I could but the latest versions of SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird don't
> allow it. (Mac version). I've even tried to set SSL methods in about
> Config and still won't allow it.
>

Phillip,

Are you sure you tried this:
In Advanced, Config Editor, enter md5 and in the resulting lines there
are two 40 bit entries, dbl-click both to change from false to "true".

I recently installed Netscape Messenger and that is all I had to do,
other than check SSL & set it for port 563.

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Leonidas Jones-2
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:

> squaredancer wrote:
>> On 04.12.2007 07:11, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Peter
>> Potamus the Purple Hippo to generate the following:? :
>>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>>    
>>>>>> You are now banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia.
>>>>>>        
>>>> ....what were you banned _for_ ?
>>>>    
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.test.multimedia/browse_thread/thread/5a33473cd1858444/dac4f4784f33b169?#dac4f4784f33b169 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>
>> let's all take Jay's offer and go back to secnews, where we all came
>> from!
>> We can leave Chris Illi-ass believing that he is, indeed, not an
>> idiot!  He will be monopolically alone in that belief, but may rally
>> some moose-type cronies to soothe his overinflated ego!
>>
>> reg
>
> Wish I could but the latest versions of SeaMonkey, or Thunderbird don't
> allow it. (Mac version). I've even tried to set SSL methods in about
> Config and still won't allow it.
>

Just posted this in another thread here, but what the hecvk, here it again.

Mozilla products no longer support SSL2 as being insecure, but it can be
enabled via about:config:

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Cannot_connect_securely_because_the_site_uses_an_older_insecure_version_of_the_SSL_protocol

Lee
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>> I'm now the first person to be banned from a mozilla newsgroup.  Where
>> are the guidelines for banning people. There's nothing on the
>> etiquette page: http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html and
>> there is nothing within the cancellation page that says so:
>> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>
> I assume that Chris means that he will cancel all further posts from
> you, which is equivalent to a ban.
>
>> And who gave you the authority to ban people from newsgroups.  I don't
>> think you have that authority to do that.  You only have the authority
>> for the list, not the group.
>
> If I understand correctly, Chris is the moderator for
> mozilla.test.multimedia , which means that he has the final say about
> what gets posted there, just like any other moderator of a group/mailing
> list. This is separate from his role as part of the team looking after
> the support newsgroups, to which this policy refers.
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>
>> Is this how things are run in the news.mozilla.org server: The Lunacy
>> of one person has the power to ban people, and on a whim?  Is this how
>> people are treaded within these newsgroups?  I think this one
>> individual has a problem himself, and his position within the mozilla
>> news server AND the mozilla lists should be critically examined.  Gerv
>> and Dave, is this the way people are treated.
>
> Get off your high horse. If you want to make a public complaint, you can
> have a public smackdown.
>
> The message you are pointing to with such indignation is clearly,
> indubitably, totally and completely off-topic for the group to which it
> is posted. As, in fact, are all the other messages in the thread. So I
> have no idea what makes you think you can point at it and shout "Help!
> Help! I'm being oppressed!" As the moderator, Chris has every right to
> keep off-topic traffic out of the group. That's what moderators do.
>
> The Mozilla newsgroups are not anyone's personal playground or chatroom.
> Their primary use is for getting project-related work done. This
> particular group is for binary test posts, not for conversation of any
> kind. After the point was firmly made that there needed to be non-work
> groups available, mozilla.general was set aside for this. In all groups
> other than mozilla.general, off-topic chatter is discouraged. It may be
> discouraged using either social or technical pressure.
>
> (Of course, a person's standing in and usefulness to the project has a
> strong impact on how much leeway they get. That's right and proper.
> Mozilla is a meritocracy.)
>
> Gerv

*PLONK*

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Re: banned from newsgroup

JoeS-3
Gus Richter wrote:

> Gervase Markham wrote:
>> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>>> I'm now the first person to be banned from a mozilla newsgroup.  
>>> Where are the guidelines for banning people. There's nothing on the
>>> etiquette page: http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html and
>>> there is nothing within the cancellation page that says so:
>>> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>>
>> I assume that Chris means that he will cancel all further posts from
>> you, which is equivalent to a ban.
>>
>>> And who gave you the authority to ban people from newsgroups.  I
>>> don't think you have that authority to do that.  You only have the
>>> authority for the list, not the group.
>>
>> If I understand correctly, Chris is the moderator for
>> mozilla.test.multimedia , which means that he has the final say about
>> what gets posted there, just like any other moderator of a
>> group/mailing list. This is separate from his role as part of the team
>> looking after the support newsgroups, to which this policy refers.
>> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>>
>>> Is this how things are run in the news.mozilla.org server: The Lunacy
>>> of one person has the power to ban people, and on a whim?  Is this
>>> how people are treaded within these newsgroups?  I think this one
>>> individual has a problem himself, and his position within the mozilla
>>> news server AND the mozilla lists should be critically examined.  
>>> Gerv and Dave, is this the way people are treated.
>>
>> Get off your high horse. If you want to make a public complaint, you
>> can have a public smackdown.
>>
>> The message you are pointing to with such indignation is clearly,
>> indubitably, totally and completely off-topic for the group to which
>> it is posted. As, in fact, are all the other messages in the thread.
>> So I have no idea what makes you think you can point at it and shout
>> "Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!" As the moderator, Chris has every
>> right to keep off-topic traffic out of the group. That's what
>> moderators do.
>>
>> The Mozilla newsgroups are not anyone's personal playground or
>> chatroom. Their primary use is for getting project-related work done.
>> This particular group is for binary test posts, not for conversation
>> of any kind. After the point was firmly made that there needed to be
>> non-work groups available, mozilla.general was set aside for this. In
>> all groups other than mozilla.general, off-topic chatter is
>> discouraged. It may be discouraged using either social or technical
>> pressure.
>>
>> (Of course, a person's standing in and usefulness to the project has a
>> strong impact on how much leeway they get. That's right and proper.
>> Mozilla is a meritocracy.)
>>
>> Gerv
>
> *PLONK*
>
Well, so much for "building a community of multimedia testers"
JoeS

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Billy Holmes
JoeS wrote:
> Well, so much for "building a community of multimedia testers"
>  

I swear, after being in the gentoo lists for so long and seeing how
people treat each other, it amazes me how juvenile some people take
criticism here. It's like a toddler that throws a tantrum when the
parent tells them not to touch the cookie jar.

You can't run around posting random crap in test.multimedia. It has a
specific use, someone was reminded about it, they wanted to argue about
it. They got plonked.

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Re: banned from newsgroup

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:
> Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
>> I'm now the first person to be banned from a mozilla newsgroup.  Where
>> are the guidelines for banning people. There's nothing on the etiquette
>> page: http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html and there is
>> nothing within the cancellation page that says so:
>> http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>
> I assume that Chris means that he will cancel all further posts from
> you, which is equivalent to a ban.

You're only assuming what he meant. I suggest you get your
facts straight. No, I was removed. I received this email:
"You have been unsubscribed from the test-multimedia mailing
list."  I didn't unsubscribe myself.  He did. And according
to the message that was posted I'm banned also. If I try to
post, they will not show up.  Plain and simple.  Is that
hard for you to understand?  Or are you trying to back-track
and come out smelling like a rose?

> Get off your high horse.

You're getting to be as horrible as Chris is now.  Is this
the way you treat people?  Is this the way you treat people
within this community?  It sure it.  Come post within the
Mozilla Newsgroups, and this is the way you'll be treated.
Sounds very nice doesn't it. Geee, lets cancel postings!
Lets prevent someone from posting!  Now, lets ban people
from posting!  Some community this is turning into be.

Your response is just as I expected -- powers to be
supporting other powers to be.  The hell with what users
think.  Now with your response, you're trying to back track
and provide support for what he did.  He used the words
"banned from posting in mozilla.test.multimedia."  And
everyone knows that he means that I cannot post within that
newsgroup.

> As the moderator, Chris has every right to
> keep off-topic traffic out of the group.

It was NOT off-topic traffic and nobody has proven it was.

> That's what moderators do.

not when they abuse the privilege.  And that is exactly what
you and Chris are doing and supporting.

> The Mozilla newsgroups are not anyone's personal playground or chatroom.

It wasn't being treated as such.  Only you and Chris are
making it out like that.

Your response is just a total cop out.

I am now being punished for posting binary messages in the
multimedia test newsgroup.  On these pages:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/developer-forums.html#testing
and https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/test-multimedia, they
say:

For the mozilla.test.multimedia page it says: "For binary
test messages" and thats exactly what I did.' For the other
one I replied: 'then it says here: "This list and newsgroup
is a place to test posting and *reading binaries* with
Mozilla-based clients." Again, thats exactly what I did.  I
guess it was my fault because I didn't put in the words: ".
. . can you hear this OK?"  I wonder, if I had, would all
this have been avoided?

When I posted what I did, I was told "Please don't use this
newsgroup for binary sharing."  First of all, it wasn't
being used as binary sharing.  When I question the response,
I was then subjected to being banned.

On this page here:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/developer-forums.html, it
says that "Giganews is sponsoring free access to the Mozilla
Development Forums' Usenet hierarchy 'mozilla.*'  Is this
free access.  No, not any more.  It just became a cold day
within the world of Mozilla.  It was bad enough when the
powers to be came up with the idea of removing posts
[http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html], then
they stopped people's messages from being posted, and now
they're banning people from posting.

I am now the first person to be banned from a Mozilla
newsgroup and the people listed above couldn't careless.
Atleast thats the way I see it.

People have complained about the removal and cancelling of
postings, but they went unheard.  People have complained
about individuals not being able to post.  Again, unheard.
And now, banning people from the Mozilla news server.  Will
this go unheard, too?  Yup, it fell on deaf ears.

The Mozilla newsgroups used to be a great place to be, but
now, its gone down in the dumps. Its a cold and unfriendly
place now.

If you're going to start Banning people from posting, then
maybe there should be some guidelines made.

Mozilla tells everyone that the Internet should be free and
open.  All I can say is that the Mozilla Community doesn't
practise what it preaches.  Its not free and its not open.

The Mozilla Mission says:  "And we will, above all, be
flexible and responsive."  This isn't so anymore within the
Mozilla Community of Newsgroups.  When you outright ban
someone, then thats not being flexible and responsive.

The Mission also says: "An open source community"  This is
false. You could have your postings cancelled.  You postings
may not show up, and you may be subjected to being banned.

The Mission Statement also says: "How can you participate?
Simply by doing so!"  Well, I did and this is the way I was
treated.

The Mozilla-Manifesto says: "The Mozilla project is a global
community of people who believe that openness, innovation,
and opportunity are key to the continued health of the
Internet."  Thats not so within the Mozilla Newsgroups.

The Mozilla-Manifesto also says: "the Internet is developed
in a way that benefits everyone."  How does cancelling
postings, preventing people from posting, and banning people
from posting, how does that benefit everyone?  It doesn't.
It only benefits one person.  The one who pushed for these
powers.

The Mozilla-Manifesto also says: "We create communities of
people involved in making the Internet experience better for
all of us."  Again, how does cancelling postings, preventing
people from posting, and banning people from posting make
the Mozilla Newsgroup Community a better place for all of us?

The goals for the Manifesto are to: "articulate a vision for
the Internet that Mozilla participants want the Mozilla
Foundation to pursue":  Is this what the community wants:
cancelling postings, preventing people from posting, and
banning people from posting?

Another goal of the Manifesto is to "speak to people."  When
I received one of those My posting are up for Cancellation
[as per http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html],
I question it.  To date, I'm still waiting for a reply.
That was several months ago. When I was accused of posting
Off Topic messages, I complained saying that I wasn't
contributing to the problem, and asked for an apology.  To
date, I'm still waiting.  The Manifesto goal of "speaking to
people," is a bunch of crap.  Mozilla doesn't practise this.

The Manifesto also says: "We invite others to join us and
make the Internet an ever better place for everyone."  This
isn't so within the newsgroups.

The Principles of the Manifesto are:

"The Internet is a global public resource that must remain
open and accessible.

The Internet should enrich the lives of individual human beings.

Individuals must have the ability to shape their own
experiences on the Internet.

Free and open source software promotes the development of
the Internet as a public resource."

This just isn't happening within the Mozilla Newsgroups.

Mozilla Foundation Pledge is to "build and enable
open-source technologies and communities that support the
Manifesto's principles."  The cancellation, removal and
banning people does not support this.

I want to draw your attention to these two postings within
the multimedia test newsgroup:

Someone told me to: "Complain at Mozilla.governance and try
to get Gervase Markham's attention. He's the one that gave
him the authority that he has. He's the one that said to let
him know if there are any problems."

Well, after your response, all I can say is you don't care
what happens within the Mozilla Newsgroup Community, do you.

Anyways, someone replied to the above with: "I would do so,
but fear retribution for doing so, and fear such just
writing this blurb."

Is this what its come down to: People being afraid to speak
up? People afraid to say anything?  Well, congratulations
Gerv, its now gotten there.

This problem that the Mozilla Newsgroup Community has, has
just hit other Communities and in one of the Communities
that I patronize, this individual said it best: "I
understand that users of Newsgroups are compelled to follow
the rules but personally I prefer an environment in which I
don't have to analyse whether what I have posted falls
within strict guidelines nor fear, heaven forbid, veering
off topic."  Please note: don't blame me.  Word has gotten
around on other forums and groups, and its not coming from me.

This has got to come to a stop now.  This sort of thing is
giving a black-eye to the Mozilla Community.  This sort of
thing IS making Mozilla a Laughing Stock Community. People
are laughing at the stupidity of cancelling someones post,
at stopping individuals from posting, and now banning people
from groups.  It will get to a point where people will be
afraid to come to these newsgroups. Is this your vision of a
Mozilla Friendly Community? I don't think so.

If you look at what the Community said after Chris' banning
post, then you'd see that the Community is not happy with
what he did. But you don't care about them, do you.  As far
as you're concerned, they were all off topic traffic and
shouldn't have been posted there.  You just want to make
Chris and yourself come out smelling like a Rose.

Gerv, I suggest you look up the word Community.  Does the
Mozilla Support Community fit it.  When I first came here in
November 2006, it used to but not any more.  In the last
year since I've been here, its gone down hill and into the
trash very quickly.  What with the complete removal of and
the complete stopping of an individuals postings, the
cancellation of certain postings, and now the unabridged
banning of individuals from groups.

Here, I'll beat you to the punch bowl.  Here are a couple of
definitions.  If they came for a visit, I wonder what the
k12's would think about these groups? I think they would
leave.  You Gerv should be ashamed.

community: an association of organisms, plant and animal,
each occupying a certain position or ecological niche,
inhabiting a common environment, and interacting with one
another; all the plants and animals in a particular habitat
that are bound together by food chains and other
interrelationships
[http://www.jefferson.k12.ky.us/departments/EnvironmentalEd/blackacre/glossary.html#Anchor-35882]

Community:  All the groups of organisms living together in
the same area, usually interacting or depending on each
other for existence.
[http://www.pca.state.mn.us/gloss/glossary.cfm?alpha=C&header=1&glossaryCat=0]

community: a group of plant and animal species living
together in a habitat.
[http://www.baylink.org/fieldtrips/glossary.html]

Community: all of the plants and animals living in a
specific areas (habitat).
[http://www.lakeland.k12.in.us/limabrighton/nctrip07/glossary.html]

Community: A number of populations of plants and animals
that live and interact with one another in a specific area
with similar environmental conditions.
[http://www.orcasisle.com/~elc/outdoorschool/vocab.htm]

Community:  A group of individuals organized into a unit, or
manifesting some unifying trait or common interest; loosely,
the locality or catchment area population for which a
service is provided. . . .
[http://www.merrea.org/glossary%20c.htm]

Community: A group of plants and animals living and
interacting with one another in a specific region under
relatively similar environmental conditions.
{http://www.bartleby.com/61/88/C0518800.html}

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails to me may become public

Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
Newsgroups

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Gervase Markham
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:
<a very long message>.

If you want me to listen to your point of view, you are going to have to
put it more succinctly than that.

> You're getting to be as horrible as Chris is now.  Is this the way
> you treat people?  Is this the way you treat people within this
> community?  It sure it.  

I treat people in the way they ask to be treated. You made a public fuss
about this, and so I provided a straightforward and honest public
response. If you'd emailed me privately, I would have responded
privately. The choice was yours.

I don't think my words were rude. They may not be what you want to hear,
but they weren't rude.

> Come post within the Mozilla Newsgroups, and
> this is the way you'll be treated.

Peter, what is your business in mozilla.test.multimedia anyway? If you
are testing the Mozilla family of newsgroup clients, where are the bugs
you've filed? I've searched bugzilla.mozilla.org and can't find any,
although I'm happy to be corrected as I may have used the wrong Bugzilla
ID. Or is our binary posting support perfect?

The group description, as you point out, is "For binary
test messages". Your message was not a binary message (it had no
attachment), so was offtopic already.

> Your response is just as I expected -- powers to be
> supporting other powers to be.

I think Chris, as moderator of the group, is entirely within his
project-given authority to do what he did. I think that the messages
concerned were undoubtedly off-topic. On a human level, I can see how
your continued pushing of the boundaries in this area may have irritated
him.

The Mozilla newsgroups are for the community of people working on the
Mozilla project. Genuine question (not rhetorical): what have you done
for the project lately?

This is not to say that only people who are working on the project are
welcome, but it seems to me that those who are active contributors in
the community get to make the rules.

Gerv
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
<[hidden email]> wrote in news:J8-
[hidden email]:

> You're getting to be as horrible as Chris is now.  Is this
> the way you treat people?

These are questions you need to ask yourself.  While Ilias can
certainly be a jackass as often as not, you've tended to be
almost entirely a jackass in this group.  You behave like a very
spoiled child.

--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

IF YOU SUPPORTED BUSH, A YELLOW RIBBON WON'T MAKE UP  FOR IT
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Christopher Jahn
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham <[hidden email]> wrote in
news:[hidden email]:

> This is not to say that only people who are working on the
> project are welcome, but it seems to me that those who are
> active contributors in the community get to make the rules.

GErv, as irritating as "peter" is, the fact is that I've watched
participation in this group fall since Ilias took over.  I've
been helping out with peer support since Mozilla got its own
groups, and I was at SecNews before that.  He's knocked the
warmth out of the groups. We were better off without his
moderation, and I'm sorry you can't see what is obvious to a lot
of us.

--
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/

IF YOU SUPPORTED BUSH, A YELLOW RIBBON WON'T MAKE UP  FOR IT
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Re: banned from newsgroup

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
On 05.12.2007 05:49, Gervase Markham wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

>> Come post within the Mozilla Newsgroups, and
>> this is the way you'll be treated.
>
> Peter, what is your business in mozilla.test.multimedia anyway? If you
> are testing the Mozilla family of newsgroup clients, where are the bugs
> you've filed? I've searched bugzilla.mozilla.org and can't find any,
> although I'm happy to be corrected as I may have used the wrong Bugzilla
> ID. Or is our binary posting support perfect?
>
> The group description, as you point out, is "For binary
> test messages". Your message was not a binary message (it had no
> attachment), so was offtopic already.

Gerv, everyone is getting confused about this, so let me pose the
question "what is the problem with posting a LINK to a binary (legal
mp3) as opposed to posting the binary itself?" Peter posted a link, not
the binary itself for Reg to see if he could play it, makes no
difference whether it was posted as a binary or posted as a link does
it? After reading the post and replies it is my opinion that Chris
looked at it as if it was being posted as an illegal file-sharing binary
and that is simply not the case. Peter was in fact providing a service
by trying to help out Reg with a problem, isn't that what MTMM is all about?

Take care ..

--
Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion
Marketing,Staff and Forums Consultant
Netscape Communications Corporation
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