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Daniel Brandes
Does somebody know how the mozilla foundation is bankrolled?
I'm wondering how they make it: Releasing professional software without
selling it really... the few sold CD's won't make it, definitely.
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Re: background

gwtc-4
Daniel Brandes wrote:

> Does somebody know how the mozilla foundation is bankrolled?
> I'm wondering how they make it: Releasing professional software without
> selling it really... the few sold CD's won't make it, definitely.
They have multi-million dollar grants [donations] from AOL, and other
corporations. Plus they have lots of smaller donations from
individuals, and they sell other stuff.

--
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a radio out of a coconut, why can't he fix a hole in a boat?
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Re: background

Philip Withnall
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
development side?
Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
advertising-related things.

Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around a
flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for the
love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the damned
capitalists always get the better. :-(
(Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)

gwtc wrote:
> Daniel Brandes wrote:
>
>> Does somebody know how the mozilla foundation is bankrolled?
>> I'm wondering how they make it: Releasing professional software
>> without selling it really... the few sold CD's won't make it, definitely.
> They have multi-million dollar grants [donations] from AOL, and other
> corporations. Plus they have lots of smaller donations from individuals,
> and they sell other stuff.
>
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Re: background

Daniel Brandes
Philip Withnall wrote:

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
> does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
> development side?
> Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
> advertising-related things.
>
> Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
> weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around a
> flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for the
> love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the damned
> capitalists always get the better. :-(
> (Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)


Really idealistic.
I have one piece of advice for you: If you're a good programmer, join
microsoft and earn much money - make the best of a bad job within your
world; you cannot change the system. ;-)
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Re: background

user-41
Daniel Brandes wrote:

> Philip Withnall wrote:
>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
>> does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
>> development side?
>> Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
>> advertising-related things.
>>
>> Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
>> weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around
>> a flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for the
>> love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the
>> damned capitalists always get the better. :-(
>> (Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)
>
>
>
> Really idealistic.
> I have one piece of advice for you: If you're a good programmer, join
> microsoft and earn much money - make the best of a bad job within your
> world; you cannot change the system. ;-)

Novel, that. I've never felt MS was a passable environment for an idealist.

--
John McWilliams
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Re: background

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by Daniel Brandes
Daniel Brandes wrote:

> Philip Withnall wrote:
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
>> does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
>> development side?
>> Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
>> advertising-related things.
>>
>> Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
>> weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around a
>> flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for the
>> love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the damned
>> capitalists always get the better. :-(
>> (Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)
>
> Really idealistic.
> I have one piece of advice for you: If you're a good programmer, join
> microsoft and earn much money - make the best of a bad job within your
> world; you cannot change the system. ;-)

Besides, you can always give the money to the poor downtrodden
proletariat.  From each according to his ability to each according to
his need.

--
Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 10.2)
---------------------------------------------
"The primary purpose of any government entity
  is to employ the unemployable."
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Re: background

Robert Blair-2
In reply to this post by Daniel Brandes
Daniel Brandes wrote:
> Does somebody know how the mozilla foundation is bankrolled?
> I'm wondering how they make it: Releasing professional software without
> selling it really... the few sold CD's won't make it, definitely.

According to their Form 990 for 2004 (the form for 2005 is not due, the
Mozilla Foundation received over $907,000 in donations and generated
over $4,913,000 in fees in calendar 2004.

Information like this is public.  The Forms 990 for the three latest
years must be disclosed whenever anyone makes a request is made for
them.  This is often done by putting the Forms 990 on the Web.  Another
charitable foundation -- Guidestar -- does this automatically.  See
<http://www.guidestar.org/>.

While researching this, I discovered a discrepancy in the status of the
Mozilla Foundation.  They apparently never registered with the Registry
of Charitable Trusts (under the California Attorney General), which is
required of all charities incorporated in California.  At least, they
have no CT (charitable trust) number.  Also, the Mozilla Foundation may
have failed to make their latest annual filing with the Registry (which
is supposed to include a copy of their Form 990).  If true, this means
it is illegal for the Foundation to solicit donations in California.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail?  Use PGP.
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Re: background

Daniel Brandes
In reply to this post by user-41
[hidden email] wrote:

> Daniel Brandes wrote:
>> Philip Withnall wrote:
>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
>>> does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
>>> development side?
>>> Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
>>> advertising-related things.
>>>
>>> Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
>>> weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around
>>> a flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for
>>> the love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the
>>> damned capitalists always get the better. :-(
>>> (Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Really idealistic.
>> I have one piece of advice for you: If you're a good programmer, join
>> microsoft and earn much money - make the best of a bad job within your
>> world; you cannot change the system. ;-)
>
> Novel, that. I've never felt MS was a passable environment for an idealist.
>

I meant for a money-affixed idealist... the only kind of idealism at MS.
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Re: background

beltzner
In reply to this post by Philip Withnall
On 4/24/06, Philip Withnall <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the Mozilla _Corporation_ which
> does the money side, and the Mozilla Foundation which does the
> development side?

You're wrong. :) The Mozilla Corporation
(http://www.mozilla.com/about/) is a wholly owned subsidiary of the
Mozilla Foundation (http://www.mozilla.org/about/). It was created
primarily for legal reasons surrounding US tax and employment laws and
the ability of the Foundation to do business properly (f.e., non
profit entities are not allowed to advertize, it was difficult to
employ out-of-country workers, ...) The Mozilla Foundation (MoFo)
directs the activities of the Mozilla Corporation (MoCo) and imbues
the Corporation with the responsibility for the production and release
of Mozilla products.

Mitchell Baker's weblog has several entries about the relationship:

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/mozilla_corporation_part_1.html
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2005/10/post.html
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2005/08/organizing_the_1.html

To be quite honest, we're still working out the full nature of all of
these relationships (the legal ones are quite clearly deliniated).
Watch this space for news! ;)

> Don't forget the large amounts of money given by Google for various
> advertising-related things.

It's not just Google.

> Money, however, shouldn't be an object in software development. If it
> weren't for the fact that just about the entire world revolves around a
> flawed capitalist system, software development would be done for the
> love of creating good software. Mozilla tries to do this, but the damned
> capitalists always get the better. :-(
> (Yeah...I'm communist. So what.)

Money is a tool to make things happen. That the Mozilla Corporation
has been successful in generating revenue is fantastic in that it
means that we can expand our available resources (human and equipment)
to continue to make things happen, and to make them happer better and
quicker. The money will also benefit the Foundation, and indeed the
global software community as hinted at by Mitchell in this post:

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/grants_and_donations.html

I hope this answers some of your questions.

cheers,
mike
--
/ mike beltzner / user experience lead / mozilla corporation /
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Re: background

Philip Withnall
In reply to this post by Philip Withnall
Mike Beltzner wrote:
>
> You're wrong. :) *snip*
>

meh.

> It's not just Google.

gwtc had already listed some.

> Money is a tool to make things happen. That the Mozilla Corporation
> has been successful in generating revenue is fantastic in that it
> means that we can expand our available resources (human and equipment)
> to continue to make things happen, and to make them happer better and
> quicker. The money will also benefit the Foundation, and indeed the
> global software community as hinted at by Mitchell in this post:
>
> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/grants_and_donations.html
>

I congratulate Mozilla on the money-making efforts, and it's all very
nice, but capitalism's a flawed system, resulting in greed and pain. I
know communism will never work :-(, but money shouldn't *have* to be an
object in software development. It does help though.
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Re: background

gwtc-4
Philip Withnall wrote:

> Mike Beltzner wrote:
>
>>You're wrong. :) *snip*
>>
>
>
> meh.
>
>
>>It's not just Google.
>
>
> gwtc had already listed some.
>
>
>>Money is a tool to make things happen. That the Mozilla Corporation
>>has been successful in generating revenue is fantastic in that it
>>means that we can expand our available resources (human and equipment)
>>to continue to make things happen, and to make them happer better and
>>quicker. The money will also benefit the Foundation, and indeed the
>>global software community as hinted at by Mitchell in this post:
>>
>>http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/grants_and_donations.html
>>
>
>
> I congratulate Mozilla on the money-making efforts, and it's all very
> nice, but capitalism's a flawed system, resulting in greed and pain. I
> know communism will never work :-(, but money shouldn't *have* to be an
> object in software development. It does help though.
Money makes the world go around.

--
Things to Ponder about: Why do people point to their wrist when asking
for the time, but don't point to their crotch when they ask where the
bathroom is?
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Re: background

Robert Blair-2
gwtc wrote:

> Philip Withnall wrote:
>
>> Mike Beltzner wrote:
>>
>>> You're wrong. :) *snip*
>>>
>>
>>
>> meh.
>>
>>
>>> It's not just Google.
>>
>>
>> gwtc had already listed some.
>>
>>
>>> Money is a tool to make things happen. That the Mozilla Corporation
>>> has been successful in generating revenue is fantastic in that it
>>> means that we can expand our available resources (human and equipment)
>>> to continue to make things happen, and to make them happer better and
>>> quicker. The money will also benefit the Foundation, and indeed the
>>> global software community as hinted at by Mitchell in this post:
>>>
>>> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/grants_and_donations.html 
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I congratulate Mozilla on the money-making efforts, and it's all very
>> nice, but capitalism's a flawed system, resulting in greed and pain. I
>> know communism will never work :-(, but money shouldn't *have* to be
>> an object in software development. It does help though.
> Money makes the world go around.
>

Actually, it's greed that makes the world go around.

However, money is indeed important for any organization attempting to
develop and distribute quality software.  I would never have spent 41
years of my life as a software developer and tester if I had not been
paid for my efforts.  And my employers had large investments in
computers and communication systems, as well as expenses for such
mundane things as lights, phones, desks, parking lots, training,
janitorial services, etc.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail?  Use PGP.
See my <http://www.rossde.com/PGP/>
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Re: background

Paul B. Gallagher
In reply to this post by gwtc-4
gwtc wrote:

> Philip Withnall wrote:
>
>> Mike Beltzner wrote:
>>
>>> You're wrong. :) *snip*
>>
>> meh.
>>
>>> It's not just Google.
>>
>> gwtc had already listed some.
>>
>>> Money is a tool to make things happen. That the Mozilla Corporation
>>> has been successful in generating revenue is fantastic in that it
>>> means that we can expand our available resources (human and equipment)
>>> to continue to make things happen, and to make them happer better and
>>> quicker. The money will also benefit the Foundation, and indeed the
>>> global software community as hinted at by Mitchell in this post:
>>>
>>> http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2006/03/grants_and_donations.html 
>>
>> I congratulate Mozilla on the money-making efforts, and it's all very
>> nice, but capitalism's a flawed system, resulting in greed and pain. I
>> know communism will never work :-(, but money shouldn't *have* to be
>> an object in software development. It does help though.
>
> Money makes the world go around.

The world was going around long before money was invented, and I'll
wager it'll still be going around after money is long-forgotten.

Just an observation -- I have no dog in this fight.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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