Workspace Localization

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Workspace Localization

Rob Campbell-3
Hello!

We've just landed bug 642176[1], "Integrate Workspaces extension into
the browser" into our devtools project branch[2][3]. We're hoping to
merge back into mozilla-central sometime in the next week or so to
target Firefox 6. Axel rightly pointed out that the name "Workspace"
may not translate well into other languages, citing German as one of
the potentially difficult locales.

What is the "Workspace" feature? It's a simple text editor for writing
and running bits of JavaScript code. It's a prototyping tool. It's a
debugging tool. It's a something to use for experimentation.

The name "Workspace" came from the Smalltalk-80 programming
environment[4]. I've blogged about it recently.[5][6]

At the risk of opening up a big bikeshed naming discussion, I ask you,
is this a good name for the feature? Can you think of another name
that would localize better?

Next week, we'll take a look at the responses and choose the best, or
ship with Workspace as it is now and leave this discussion as a list
of possible candidates for translation to other locales as needed.

Thanks!
Rob "robcee" Campbell

[1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642176
[2] http://hg.mozilla.org/projects/devtools
[3] http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/ (search
for "devtools")
[4] http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/TheInteractiveProgrammingEnv
[5] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/05/javascript-workspaces/
[6] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/06/the-best-development-tools-1983-had-to-offer/
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Re: Workspace Localization

David Illsley-3
FWIW, the Eclipse/Java equivalent functionality is called 'Scrapbook'.
David
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Re: Workspace Localization

Ehsan Akhgari
In reply to this post by Rob Campbell-3
I think the term "workspace" cannot be translated to all languages in a
meaningful way.  I think what we usually do in this kind of situation is
add localization notes explaining the rationale behind the name and
telling localizers that it's OK if they pick a word more suitable for
describing the feature in their language.

Cheers,
Ehsan

On 11-04-21 12:10 PM, Rob Campbell wrote:

> Hello!
>
> We've just landed bug 642176[1], "Integrate Workspaces extension into
> the browser" into our devtools project branch[2][3]. We're hoping to
> merge back into mozilla-central sometime in the next week or so to
> target Firefox 6. Axel rightly pointed out that the name "Workspace"
> may not translate well into other languages, citing German as one of
> the potentially difficult locales.
>
> What is the "Workspace" feature? It's a simple text editor for writing
> and running bits of JavaScript code. It's a prototyping tool. It's a
> debugging tool. It's a something to use for experimentation.
>
> The name "Workspace" came from the Smalltalk-80 programming
> environment[4]. I've blogged about it recently.[5][6]
>
> At the risk of opening up a big bikeshed naming discussion, I ask you,
> is this a good name for the feature? Can you think of another name
> that would localize better?
>
> Next week, we'll take a look at the responses and choose the best, or
> ship with Workspace as it is now and leave this discussion as a list
> of possible candidates for translation to other locales as needed.
>
> Thanks!
> Rob "robcee" Campbell
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642176
> [2] http://hg.mozilla.org/projects/devtools
> [3] http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/ (search
> for "devtools")
> [4] http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/TheInteractiveProgrammingEnv
> [5] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/05/javascript-workspaces/
> [6] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/06/the-best-development-tools-1983-had-to-offer/
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n

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Re: Workspace Localization

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Rob Campbell-3
Ehsan Akhgari schrieb:
> I think the term "workspace" cannot be translated to all languages in a
> meaningful way.

IMHO, it's even too unspecific in meaning to be really useful to
English-speaking users.

Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time,
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)
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Re: Workspace Localization

Rimas Kudelis-4
In reply to this post by Rob Campbell-3
Hi Rob, and others,

I don't think you really have to adapt this metaphor to non-English
speakers. There may also be one or more languages where certain metaphor
won't work well, but that doesn't mean you can't use it in all the other
languages.

IMO, it would be quite OK to simply add a huge L10N note explaining what
Workspace is and how to see it in action. Localizers could then choose
the appropriate terms for their locale, even if those terms would have
little in common with the en-US metaphor.

Rimas

2011.04.21 19:10, Rob Campbell rašė:

> Hello!
>
> We've just landed bug 642176[1], "Integrate Workspaces extension into
> the browser" into our devtools project branch[2][3]. We're hoping to
> merge back into mozilla-central sometime in the next week or so to
> target Firefox 6. Axel rightly pointed out that the name "Workspace"
> may not translate well into other languages, citing German as one of
> the potentially difficult locales.
>
> What is the "Workspace" feature? It's a simple text editor for writing
> and running bits of JavaScript code. It's a prototyping tool. It's a
> debugging tool. It's a something to use for experimentation.
>
> The name "Workspace" came from the Smalltalk-80 programming
> environment[4]. I've blogged about it recently.[5][6]
>
> At the risk of opening up a big bikeshed naming discussion, I ask you,
> is this a good name for the feature? Can you think of another name
> that would localize better?
>
> Next week, we'll take a look at the responses and choose the best, or
> ship with Workspace as it is now and leave this discussion as a list
> of possible candidates for translation to other locales as needed.
>
> Thanks!
> Rob "robcee" Campbell
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=642176
> [2] http://hg.mozilla.org/projects/devtools
> [3] http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/ (search
> for "devtools")
> [4] http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/TheInteractiveProgrammingEnv
> [5] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/05/javascript-workspaces/
> [6] http://antennasoft.net/robcee/2011/01/06/the-best-development-tools-1983-had-to-offer/

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Re: Workspace Localization

Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez-2
El 26/04/11 21:43, Rimas Kudelis escribió:

> Hi Rob, and others,
>
> I don't think you really have to adapt this metaphor to non-English
> speakers. There may also be one or more languages where certain metaphor
> won't work well, but that doesn't mean you can't use it in all the other
> languages.
>
> IMO, it would be quite OK to simply add a huge L10N note explaining what
> Workspace is and how to see it in action. Localizers could then choose
> the appropriate terms for their locale, even if those terms would have
> little in common with the en-US metaphor.


The problem with this approach (which works fine in other cases) is
that I presume "Workspace" may end being a label in a button, so the
localization should not be too much longer. And "Workspace" is a
fairly short word for localization. If en-US uses "Workspace"
naturally in the UI and a good number of other languages have problem
localizing it without getting too long, we may have weird UIs in
several languages.

"JS Scrapbook" is slightly longer and may help a bit with
localization. In es-ES it could be translated to "Recortes de JS",
which has more or less the same length than en-US. Of course, this is
just an example, for other languages "JS Scrapbook" may not work any
better than "Workspace".

JM2C




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Re: Workspace Localization

Percy Cabello - Mozilla Perú
I think a more generic name like JS editor/notebook/notepad (or script x/y/z
if don't want to tie it to a specific web scripting language) would be much
easier to localize.

Glad you took the time to ask for l10n feedback this early!

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> El 26/04/11 21:43, Rimas Kudelis escribió:
> > Hi Rob, and others,
> >
> > I don't think you really have to adapt this metaphor to non-English
> > speakers. There may also be one or more languages where certain metaphor
> > won't work well, but that doesn't mean you can't use it in all the other
> > languages.
> >
> > IMO, it would be quite OK to simply add a huge L10N note explaining what
> > Workspace is and how to see it in action. Localizers could then choose
> > the appropriate terms for their locale, even if those terms would have
> > little in common with the en-US metaphor.
>
>
> The problem with this approach (which works fine in other cases) is
> that I presume "Workspace" may end being a label in a button, so the
> localization should not be too much longer. And "Workspace" is a
> fairly short word for localization. If en-US uses "Workspace"
> naturally in the UI and a good number of other languages have problem
> localizing it without getting too long, we may have weird UIs in
> several languages.
>
> "JS Scrapbook" is slightly longer and may help a bit with
> localization. In es-ES it could be translated to "Recortes de JS",
> which has more or less the same length than en-US. Of course, this is
> just an example, for other languages "JS Scrapbook" may not work any
> better than "Workspace".
>
> JM2C
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
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Re: Workspace Localization

Dao-6
In reply to this post by Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez-2
On 26.04.2011 23:20, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:
> The problem with this approach (which works fine in other cases) is
> that I presume "Workspace" may end being a label in a button

Why are you presuming this?
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Re: Workspace Localization

flod
Il 27/04/11 07.55, Dao ha scritto:
> Why are you presuming this?
How are you supposed to reach that area without a menu somewhere?

BTW (https://bug642176.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=527213)
> +<menuitem id="appmenu_workspace"
> +                    hidden="true"
> +                    label="&workspace.label;"
> +                    key="key_workspace"
> +                    command="Tools:Workspace"/>
I agree with Ricardo: I can easily translate WorkSpace in my language,
but it will be quite long for a label ("spazio di lavoro") and I'm not
sure that people will understand what that command does.
As Percy suggested "Notepad" or "Editor" would be easier to localize,
but I'm not sure they describe the feature: to me it looks more like a
test area.

Francesco
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Re: Workspace Localization

Rob Campbell-3
In reply to this post by Rob Campbell-3
We're currently considering Scratchpad as the new name.

Filed bug 653093 to contain the work.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653093
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Re: Workspace Localization

Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez-2
In reply to this post by Dao-6
El 27/04/11 07:55, Dao escribió:
> On 26.04.2011 23:20, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:
>> The problem with this approach (which works fine in other cases) is
>> that I presume "Workspace" may end being a label in a button
>
> Why are you presuming this?


As flod says, you usually need a menu option to access the feature,
and buttons are often used to provide quick access to common menu
options (for example, in custom toolbars).

The real problem would be that the button is not added right now, but
after some time, when the en-US term for the menu label has landed and
been localized to (in some cases) long strings that won't fit into a
button, whereas the en-US term will do.

Ricardo.

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Re: Workspace Localization

Rimas Kudelis
In reply to this post by Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez-2
Hi Ricardo,

2011.04.27 00:20, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez rašė:

> El 26/04/11 21:43, Rimas Kudelis escribió:
>> Hi Rob, and others,
>>
>> I don't think you really have to adapt this metaphor to non-English
>> speakers. There may also be one or more languages where certain metaphor
>> won't work well, but that doesn't mean you can't use it in all the other
>> languages.
>>
>> IMO, it would be quite OK to simply add a huge L10N note explaining what
>> Workspace is and how to see it in action. Localizers could then choose
>> the appropriate terms for their locale, even if those terms would have
>> little in common with the en-US metaphor.
>
>
> The problem with this approach (which works fine in other cases) is
> that I presume "Workspace" may end being a label in a button, so the
> localization should not be too much longer. And "Workspace" is a
> fairly short word for localization. If en-US uses "Workspace"
> naturally in the UI and a good number of other languages have problem
> localizing it without getting too long, we may have weird UIs in
> several languages.
>
> "JS Scrapbook" is slightly longer and may help a bit with
> localization. In es-ES it could be translated to "Recortes de JS",
> which has more or less the same length than en-US. Of course, this is
> just an example, for other languages "JS Scrapbook" may not work any
> better than "Workspace".

The point I tried to make in paragraph two is that if you had enough
knowledge what this thing named Workspace is, you could find the
appropriate wording for your locale. You could use "Recortes de JS" or
"Pikachu" or anything else that would make sense for your particular
language. It wouldn't have to be a direct translation of the word
"Workspace". Am I clear enough this time?

Rimas
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