Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

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Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

jetjock
A picture is worth a thousand word!

http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html

--

     >>>>>>>>>>jetjock<<<<<<<<<<
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

M
jetjock wrote:
> A picture is worth a thousand word!
> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html


.... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to address the cause?
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Dennis-77
M wrote:
> jetjock wrote:
>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>
>
> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to address the cause?
>

The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
important to me.

Dennis

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

M
Dennis wrote:

> M wrote:
>> jetjock wrote:
>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>
>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to address the cause?
>>
> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
> important to me.
>
> Dennis
>
Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the carnage?

The lives of my friends, family and all innocent people are just as important to me, but not every one believes that their safety is dependant on how may guns you possess.

You may not agree with the statement below but at least please read and consider.  Excerpt from;
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/12/11912/turn-tide-against-nra-leadership-needed-top

"The U.S. Has 20 Times the Rate of Gun Murder

Although the NRA has worked hard to suppress data collection and independent research on gun violence, there are a number of facts relevant to this debate.

A 2011 study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery found that the gun murder rate in the U.S. is almost 20 times higher than the next 22 richest and most populous
nations combined.

Does America have 20 times the level of mental illness? No, but we do have the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people and extremely loose
gun laws that in some states allow ex-felons and the mentally ill to petition to be allowed to buy and carry weapons.

After 35 people were killed by an AR-15 assault rifle in 1996, Australia implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy back program for the weapons already on the
street. Explicitly, the Australian government was worried about importing "the American disease" of gun violence.

The result? "In the 18 years before the intervention, Australia had 13 mass shootings. In the dozen years since, there has not been a single one," says David Hemenway of
Harvard's Injury Control Research Center."
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Dave Warren-2
In the last episode of <[hidden email]>, M
<[hidden email]> said:

>Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the carnage?

How would you change that? The problem is that the guns are already out
there. Limiting sales won't have any significant impact on the guns
already out in the market today, and won't prevent criminals from
bringing more guns in illegally, it will just limit law abiding citizens
from having guns.

If laws would work here, we could just outlaw shooting more than 2
victims at once.
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Dennis-77
In reply to this post by M
M wrote:

> Dennis wrote:
>> M wrote:
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>
>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to address the cause?
>>>
>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>> important to me.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the carnage?
>

[...]

Yes, considered and dismissed as fictional and irrelevant.

And yes I read your quotes and the link. Also dismissed as irrelevant
due to the biased nature of the site and limited access to the pertinent
information as to where the figures were derived.

Each 'side' may make claims of opposing view based on the same datasets.
Your extremely limited dataset lends credence to my view that the quotes
are biased.

Dennis


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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

M
In reply to this post by Dave Warren-2
Dave Warren wrote:

> In the last episode of <[hidden email]>, M
> <[hidden email]> said:
>
>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the carnage?
> How would you change that? The problem is that the guns are already out
> there. Limiting sales won't have any significant impact on the guns
> already out in the market today, and won't prevent criminals from
> bringing more guns in illegally, it will just limit law abiding citizens
> from having guns.
>
> If laws would work here, we could just outlaw shooting more than 2
> victims at once.

Did you read any further than my opening remark?

"..... Australia implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy back program for the weapons already on the street....."

This was implemented by a very Conservative Leader of a Conservative Party with the support of opposition parties and a very grateful nation. I understand the difference in
population and the numbers of guns involved but it's possible to reduce the gun violence and the needless loss of innocent lives.
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

M
In reply to this post by Dennis-77
Dennis wrote:

> M wrote:
>> Dennis wrote:
>>> M wrote:
>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to address the cause?
>>>>
>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>> important to me.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the carnage?
>>
> [...]
>
> Yes, considered and dismissed as fictional and irrelevant.
>
> And yes I read your quotes and the link. Also dismissed as irrelevant
> due to the biased nature of the site and limited access to the pertinent
> information as to where the figures were derived.
>
> Each 'side' may make claims of opposing view based on the same datasets.
> Your extremely limited dataset lends credence to my view that the quotes
> are biased.
>
> Dennis
>
>
I'm an Australian and not influenced by your Political bias. I'm neither Republican or  Democrat

This is fact and not related to any 'data'   "..... Australia implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy back program for the weapons already on the street....."

This was implemented by a very Conservative Leader of a Conservative Party with the support of opposition parties and a very grateful nation. I understand the difference in
population and the numbers of guns involved but it's possible to reduce the gun violence and the needless loss of innocent lives.
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by M
On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Dennis wrote:
>> M wrote:
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>
>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>> address the cause?
>>>
>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>> important to me.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
> carnage?

Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
.. doesn't matter, the job gets done.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

M
Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> Dennis wrote:
>>> M wrote:
>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>> address the cause?
>>>>
>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>> important to me.
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>> carnage?
> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>
Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using a rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a knife, baseball bat or a big rock?
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by M
On 12/21/2012 10:06 PM, M wrote:
> jetjock wrote:
>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>
>
> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
> address the cause?

IF we could address the cause, certainly.  However, we don't KNOW why
some people are crazy.  We don't know the causes of paranoid
schizophrenia.  We don't have a cure, or even a reliable treatment, and
we don't have any way of forcing people to accept even the treatments we
do have.  Give me as workable solution to that, and I would be happy
with it.  Truth is, the anti-gun people are ecstatic that they now have
another excuse to further limit gun ownership.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by M
On 12/21/2012 11:07 PM, M wrote:

> Dennis wrote:
>> M wrote:
>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>
>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>> address the cause?
>>>
>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>> important to me.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
> carnage?
>
No.  This doesn't square at all well with statistics like over 45% gun
ownership in Switzerland and only a .7 per 100,000 murder rate.  It's
the person, not the gun, or the availability of them.


> The lives of my friends, family and all innocent people are just as
> important to me, but not every one believes that their safety is
> dependant on how may guns you possess.
>
> You may not agree with the statement below but at least please read and
> consider.  Excerpt from;
> http://www.prwatch.org/news/2012/12/11912/turn-tide-against-nra-leadership-needed-top
>
>
> "The U.S. Has 20 Times the Rate of Gun Murder
>
The title is about all one needs to read.  Making a comparative
statement without the other part (what is the rate 20 times of?) tells
me this is going to be a one-sided diatribe, not a rational statement.

> Although the NRA has worked hard to suppress data collection and
> independent research on gun violence, there are a number of facts
> relevant to this debate.
>
Cite proof of this statement.

> A 2011 study in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery found that
> the gun murder rate in the U.S. is almost 20 times higher than the next
> 22 richest and most populous nations combined.
>
Twenty times, compared to population?  Nope, just raw numbers from
countries with 1/10 the population.

> Does America have 20 times the level of mental illness? No, but we do
> have the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per
> 100 people and extremely loose gun laws that in some states allow
> ex-felons and the mentally ill to petition to be allowed to buy and
> carry weapons.
>

ANYONE can petition to own a gun.  Doesn't mean they will be allowed to
own one.  In no state I know of are felons allowed to own guns, nor are
those who are mentally ill (by the legal definition).  Tagging a lie
onto the end of a true statement doesn't make the lie true.


> After 35 people were killed by an AR-15 assault rifle in 1996, Australia
> implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy back program for
> the weapons already on the street. Explicitly, the Australian government
> was worried about importing "the American disease" of gun violence.
>
Confiscation!  Nothing else but, and the end goal of anti-gun lobby.
This would be unconstitutional in the US.  BTW, the AR-15 is NOT AN
ASSAULT RIFLE (yes, I am shouting).  It is a semi-automatic rifle
designed from a military rifle, intended for hunting

> The result? "In the 18 years before the intervention, Australia had 13
> mass shootings. In the dozen years since, there has not been a single
> one," says David Hemenway of Harvard's Injury Control Research Center."

Good for them, but this solution violates the US constitution.  Or
perhaps other factors were involved, like better protection of
vulnerable locations.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by M
On 12/21/2012 11:38 PM, M wrote:

> Dave Warren wrote:
>> In the last episode of <[hidden email]>, M
>> <[hidden email]> said:
>>
>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to
>>> the carnage?
>> How would you change that? The problem is that the guns are already out
>> there. Limiting sales won't have any significant impact on the guns
>> already out in the market today, and won't prevent criminals from
>> bringing more guns in illegally, it will just limit law abiding citizens
>> from having guns.
>>
>> If laws would work here, we could just outlaw shooting more than 2
>> victims at once.
>
> Did you read any further than my opening remark?
>
> "..... Australia implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy
> back program for the weapons already on the street....."
>
> This was implemented by a very Conservative Leader of a Conservative
> Party with the support of opposition parties and a very grateful nation.
> I understand the difference in population and the numbers of guns
> involved but it's possible to reduce the gun violence and the needless
> loss of innocent lives.

Certainly it is.  We could lock up, or monitor everyone.  Require
everyone to be checked for mental illness, and lock up those who are
ill.  We could confiscate all guns, knives, baseball bats (second place
in murders), and only allow licensed chefs to own knives.  We could
restrict people from buying, anything that could be used to kill
someone, and put monitors on everyone so we could monitor where they
were, and what they were doing all the time.  THis would prevent the
problem.  But I wouldn't want to live in such a place.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by M
On 12/21/2012 11:45 PM, M wrote:

> Dennis wrote:
>> M wrote:
>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>> M wrote:
>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>
>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>> important to me.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to
>>> the carnage?
>>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Yes, considered and dismissed as fictional and irrelevant.
>>
>> And yes I read your quotes and the link. Also dismissed as irrelevant
>> due to the biased nature of the site and limited access to the pertinent
>> information as to where the figures were derived.
>>
>> Each 'side' may make claims of opposing view based on the same datasets.
>> Your extremely limited dataset lends credence to my view that the quotes
>> are biased.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
> I'm an Australian and not influenced by your Political bias. I'm neither
> Republican or  Democrat
>
> This is fact and not related to any 'data'   "..... Australia
> implemented an assault weapons ban and a mandatory buy back program for
> the weapons already on the street....."
>
> This was implemented by a very Conservative Leader of a Conservative
> Party with the support of opposition parties and a very grateful nation.
> I understand the difference in population and the numbers of guns
> involved but it's possible to reduce the gun violence and the needless
> loss of innocent lives.
At the cost of leaving the public defenseless against violence by those
who ignore the law, and against the government, which has proven by its
confiscation of the means to resist that it plans further restrictions
on freedom.  No thanks.  THe cure is worse than the disease.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by M
On 12/22/2012 12:29 AM, M wrote:

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>> M wrote:
>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>
>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>> important to me.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>>> carnage?
>> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
>> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
>> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
>> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>>
> Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using a
> rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a
> knife, baseball bat or a big rock?

In this case (Sandy Hook), any of those would have worked against
totally helpless children.  The adults would have been a bit more difficult.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by M
My bloviated meandering follows what M graced us with on 12/21/2012
10:29 PM:

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>> M wrote:
>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>
>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>> important to me.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>>> carnage?
>> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
>> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
>> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
>> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>>
> Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using a
> rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a
> knife, baseball bat or a big rock?

Pipe bombs, BBQ Gas bomb, &c. Any number of discriminant ways to do it
if one's mind's set to it.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by M
On 22.12.2012 00:29, M wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>> M wrote:
>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>
>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the cause
>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>> important to me.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>>> carnage?
>> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
>> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
>> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
>> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>>
> Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using a
> rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a
> knife, baseball bat or a big rock?

Yes, we're down to the availability issue again. If all that kid had was
a knife, etc. the number of casualties would have been severely reduced
but still there would have been loss of life. Also, without a gun, the
chance that he would have been stopped would more than likely have been
the case. Problem is, we're looking back, not forward here. Too many
"ifs ands and buts". Take away the availability by whatever means
reduces the tragic outcome in numbers only.

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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 22.12.2012 02:44, Ron Hunter wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 12/22/2012 12:29 AM, M wrote:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>>>
>>>   --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>>> M wrote:
>>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the
>>>>> cause
>>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>>> important to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>>>> carnage?
>>> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
>>> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
>>> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
>>> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>>>
>> Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using a
>> rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a
>> knife, baseball bat or a big rock?
>
> In this case (Sandy Hook), any of those would have worked against
> totally helpless children.  The adults would have been a bit more
> difficult.
>

But the chance that Lanza would have been stopped are far greater than
if he didn't have a gun(s). Unless the victim has equal weaponry, in
this case a gun, the chances are much higher if the perp has a bat, a
knife or other weapon of equal destruction. I would much rather come up
against a knife than a gun, etc.

--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Was Greywolf
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 22/12/2012 3:25 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 12/21/2012 10:06 PM, M wrote:
>> jetjock wrote:
>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>
>>
>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>> address the cause?
>
> IF we could address the cause, certainly.  However, we don't KNOW why
> some people are crazy.  We don't know the causes of paranoid
> schizophrenia.  We don't have a cure, or even a reliable treatment, and
> we don't have any way of forcing people to accept even the treatments we
> do have.  Give me as workable solution to that, and I would be happy
> with it.  Truth is, the anti-gun people are ecstatic that they now have
> another excuse to further limit gun ownership.

"Further limit"? After practically all limitations on gun-ownership were
removed following the 2010 Supreme Court decision? You gotta be kidding.

About paranoid schizophrenia, a good deal is known. There are genetic
and environmental factors, and social-psychological triggers. It's also
known that a very small minority of mentally ill people commit violent
acts, and very few of those plan and execute mass killing. You are far
more likely to die in a car accident: about 260 times more likely, in
fact, in the USA. In Canada, where mass shootings happen years apart,
the odds vary. BTW, you are about 1.5 times more likely to be killed in
a car accident than we are.

What many people are unwilling to accept is that intervention in mental
illness may require forcibly reducing someone's liberty. The fact that
the USSR used "mental illness" as an excuse to remove dissidents from
public circulation also gives people pause. Including me. It's ain't
easy to resolve the question.

In the meantime, having so many guns around guarantees that there will
be a high kill rate. The main obstacle to gun control is "culture".
Americans display a high level of unwillingness to curb personal desires
for any reason. It seems that "liberty" is the freedom to do what you
feel like doing.

Consider Nike's "Just Do It" slogan. I considered it pernicious the
first time I saw it, and have never had reason to modify that opinion.
It's no wonder that people mistake self-indulgence for liberty.

I'll say it again: You are not free until you can say No to yourself.

Have a good day.

--
Best,
Wolf K.
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Re: Why there are no school shootings in Isreal.

Lynn McGuire
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 12/22/2012 3:36 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what M graced us with on 12/21/2012
> 10:29 PM:
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 21.12.2012 23:07, M wrote:
>>>
>>>   --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Dennis wrote:
>>>>> M wrote:
>>>>>> jetjock wrote:
>>>>>>> A picture is worth a thousand word!
>>>>>>> http://www.standeyo.com/NEWS/12_Pics_of_Day/121214.pic.of.day.c.html
>>>>>> .... and that's what you want in America? Wouldn't it be better to
>>>>>> address the cause?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The cause is the lunatics, not the guns. So please do address the
>>>>> cause
>>>>> and leave the guns alone. I for one will never surrender my guns. My
>>>>> life and the lives of friends, family and all innocent people are too
>>>>> important to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>
>>>> Ever consider it's the easy availability of guns that contribute to the
>>>> carnage?
>>> Availability of guns just makes it more convenient to kill someone and
>>> can be accomplished outside of arms reach. If the intent is to kill then
>>> the choice of weapon doesn't matter. A knife, baseball bat, a big rock
>>> .. doesn't matter, the job gets done.
>>>
>> Too true, however, but can you honestly compare the results from using
>> a rapid firing assault weapon and the loss of 26 innocent lives to a
>> knife, baseball bat or a big rock?
>
> Pipe bombs, BBQ Gas bomb, &c. Any number of discriminant ways to do it
> if one's mind's set to it.

Dynamite by the school board treasurer tops
the list:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Lynn


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