Updating QA Wiki

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Updating QA Wiki

Clint Talbert-3
Hello folks,

So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have
been looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on
*why* we put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see
in order of importance:
1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current
testing work that is on-going.
2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
work is, and how to get involved.
3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes

The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
* P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific
pages -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
* P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need
to be updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff":
all mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
* P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done
on a team by team basis.
* P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new
naming convention - "team meeting"
* P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
from the main page.
* P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
etc).
* P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which
then says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar
is just not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by
inserting that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think
creating a redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back
to wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if
other people have this issue.

I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence
significantly more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use
cases we need to solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan
to start changing stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong
opposition.

Thanks,

Clint
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Martijn-4
These all sound like great ideas to me.
I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
would be great!

> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our work is, and how to get involved.

I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
there?

I'm seeing things like this:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
right?

Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
the wiki.

Regards,
Martijn

On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello folks,
>
> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
> importance:
> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
> work that is on-going.
> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
> work is, and how to get involved.
> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>
> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to be
> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on a
> team by team basis.
> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new naming
> convention - "team meeting"
> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
> from the main page.
> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
> etc).
> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is just
> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if other
> people have this issue.
>
> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence significantly
> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Clint
> _______________________________________________
> dev-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Aaron Train
In reply to this post by Clint Talbert-3
On 14-08-22 01:34 PM, Martijn wrote:

> These all sound like great ideas to me.
> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> would be great!
>
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our work is, and how to get involved.
>
> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> there?
>
> I'm seeing things like this:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> right?
>
> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> the wiki.
>
> Regards,
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
>> importance:
>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
>> work that is on-going.
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>> work is, and how to get involved.
>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>>
>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to be
>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on a
>> team by team basis.
>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new naming
>> convention - "team meeting"
>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
>> from the main page.
>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
>> etc).
>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is just
>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if other
>> people have this issue.
>>
>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence significantly
>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clint
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality

These are all great tweaks to better the overall wiki. I think these
priorities are fine.

I'd also mention that we should update our whois page
https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/whois
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Clint Talbert-3
In reply to this post by Martijn-4

On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:

> These all sound like great ideas to me.
> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> would be great!
>
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our work is, and how to get involved.
> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> there?
I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is
there or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's
very QA specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which
feels like a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get
involved with Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to
be sure it fits. If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it
from the wiki.
> I'm seeing things like this:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> right?
I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's
a decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would
allow it to show up nicely on the site map:  
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/

But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?

Clint

> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> the wiki.
>
> Regards,
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
>> importance:
>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
>> work that is on-going.
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>> work is, and how to get involved.
>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>>
>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to be
>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on a
>> team by team basis.
>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new naming
>> convention - "team meeting"
>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
>> from the main page.
>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
>> etc).
>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is just
>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if other
>> people have this issue.
>>
>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence significantly
>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clint
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality

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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Marc Schifer
I am in favor of the QA/<project> to keep us all in one place and lets us differentiate our pages from Dev (assuming they are usually at /<project>)

Marc S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
To: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "dev-quality" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:48:35 PM
Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki


On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:

> These all sound like great ideas to me.
> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> would be great!
>
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our work is, and how to get involved.
> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> there?
I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is
there or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's
very QA specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which
feels like a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get
involved with Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to
be sure it fits. If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it
from the wiki.
> I'm seeing things like this:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> right?
I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's
a decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would
allow it to show up nicely on the site map:  
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/

But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?

Clint

> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> the wiki.
>
> Regards,
> Martijn
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
>> importance:
>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
>> work that is on-going.
>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>> work is, and how to get involved.
>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>>
>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to be
>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on a
>> team by team basis.
>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new naming
>> convention - "team meeting"
>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
>> from the main page.
>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
>> etc).
>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is just
>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if other
>> people have this issue.
>>
>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence significantly
>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clint
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality

_______________________________________________
dev-quality mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Anthony Hughes-3
I've always jumped back and forth. If we can all agree to standardize on wiki/QA/<project> then I'll migrate my project pages accordingly.

Anthony Hughes
Senior Test Engineer
Mozilla Corporation


----- Original Message -----

> From: "Marc Schifer" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>, "dev-quality" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 5:29:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
>
> I am in favor of the QA/<project> to keep us all in one place and lets us
> differentiate our pages from Dev (assuming they are usually at /<project>)
>
> Marc S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "dev-quality" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:48:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
>
>
> On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:
> > These all sound like great ideas to me.
> > I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> > empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> > would be great!
> >
> >> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
> >> work is, and how to get involved.
> > I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> > regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> > how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> > there?
> I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is
> there or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's
> very QA specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which
> feels like a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get
> involved with Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to
> be sure it fits. If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it
> from the wiki.
> > I'm seeing things like this:
> > https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> > https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> > I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> > correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> > right?
> I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's
> a decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
> wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
> see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would
> allow it to show up nicely on the site map:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/
>
> But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?
>
> Clint
> > Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> > they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> > buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> > the wiki.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Martijn
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >> Hello folks,
> >>
> >> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
> >> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
> >> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
> >> importance:
> >> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
> >> work that is on-going.
> >> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
> >> work is, and how to get involved.
> >> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
> >> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
> >>
> >> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
> >> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
> >> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
> >> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
> >> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to
> >> be
> >> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
> >> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
> >> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
> >> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on
> >> a
> >> team by team basis.
> >> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new
> >> naming
> >> convention - "team meeting"
> >> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
> >> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
> >> from the main page.
> >> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
> >> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
> >> etc).
> >> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
> >> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is
> >> just
> >> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
> >> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
> >> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
> >> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if
> >> other
> >> people have this issue.
> >>
> >> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence
> >> significantly
> >> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
> >> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
> >> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Clint
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dev-quality mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
> _______________________________________________
> dev-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Geo Mealer
In reply to this post by Clint Talbert-3
Can we have cake and eat it too?

Content at QA/Project, redirect at Project/QA?

Geo

On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:
>> These all sound like great ideas to me.
>> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
>> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
>> would be great!
>>
>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our work is, and how to get involved.
>> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
>> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
>> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
>> there?
> I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is there or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's very QA specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which feels like a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get involved with Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to be sure it fits. If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it from the wiki.
>> I'm seeing things like this:
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
>> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
>> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
>> right?
> I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's a decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would allow it to show up nicely on the site map:  https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/
>
> But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?
>
> Clint
>> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
>> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
>> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
>> the wiki.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martijn
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hello folks,
>>>
>>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have been
>>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
>>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
>>> importance:
>>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current testing
>>> work that is on-going.
>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>>> work is, and how to get involved.
>>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
>>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>>>
>>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
>>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
>>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific pages
>>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
>>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to be
>>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
>>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
>>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
>>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done on a
>>> team by team basis.
>>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new naming
>>> convention - "team meeting"
>>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
>>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
>>> from the main page.
>>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
>>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
>>> etc).
>>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which then
>>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is just
>>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
>>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
>>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
>>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if other
>>> people have this issue.
>>>
>>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence significantly
>>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need to
>>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
>>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Clint
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality

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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Anthony Hughes-3
One of the things I like about the internal wiki (intranet) is that I can "move" a page and all subpages. I don't know if we have this functionality in wiki.mo and that's one reason moving pages around has been difficult and confusion (at least for me).

Anthony Hughes
Senior Test Engineer
Mozilla Corporation


----- Original Message -----

> From: "Geo Mealer" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>, "dev-quality" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:45:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
>
> Can we have cake and eat it too?
>
> Content at QA/Project, redirect at Project/QA?
>
> Geo
>
> On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:
> >> These all sound like great ideas to me.
> >> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> >> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> >> would be great!
> >>
> >>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
> >>> work is, and how to get involved.
> >> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> >> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> >> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> >> there?
> > I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is there
> > or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's very QA
> > specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which feels like
> > a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get involved with
> > Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to be sure it fits.
> > If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it from the wiki.
> >> I'm seeing things like this:
> >> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> >> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> >> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> >> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> >> right?
> > I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's a
> > decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
> > wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
> > see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would allow
> > it to show up nicely on the site map:
> > https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/
> >
> > But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?
> >
> > Clint
> >> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> >> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> >> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> >> the wiki.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Martijn
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hello folks,
> >>>
> >>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have
> >>> been
> >>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
> >>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
> >>> importance:
> >>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current
> >>> testing
> >>> work that is on-going.
> >>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
> >>> work is, and how to get involved.
> >>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
> >>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
> >>>
> >>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
> >>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
> >>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific
> >>> pages
> >>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
> >>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to
> >>> be
> >>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
> >>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
> >>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
> >>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done
> >>> on a
> >>> team by team basis.
> >>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new
> >>> naming
> >>> convention - "team meeting"
> >>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
> >>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
> >>> from the main page.
> >>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
> >>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
> >>> etc).
> >>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which
> >>> then
> >>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is
> >>> just
> >>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
> >>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
> >>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
> >>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if
> >>> other
> >>> people have this issue.
> >>>
> >>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence
> >>> significantly
> >>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need
> >>> to
> >>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
> >>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Clint
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dev-quality mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev-quality mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-quality mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Geo Mealer
I believe we can. I have “move privileges” on the public wiki, think Henrik does too, probably some others. I think you have to apply for the access. Otherwise, probably works like the intranet (haven’t tried there). On public wiki, it’ll move the tree, and leave a redirect behind at the original spot.

I was proposing even in cases where we put the tree up at the QA level in the first place, we leave a redirect at Project/QA under the assumption people may just go there. Maybe just the link at the project home would suffice though.

Geo

On Aug 25, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Anthony Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:

> One of the things I like about the internal wiki (intranet) is that I can "move" a page and all subpages. I don't know if we have this functionality in wiki.mo and that's one reason moving pages around has been difficult and confusion (at least for me).
>
> Anthony Hughes
> Senior Test Engineer
> Mozilla Corporation
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Geo Mealer" <[hidden email]>
>> To: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>, "dev-quality" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:45:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
>>
>> Can we have cake and eat it too?
>>
>> Content at QA/Project, redirect at Project/QA?
>>
>> Geo
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:
>>>> These all sound like great ideas to me.
>>>> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
>>>> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
>>>> would be great!
>>>>
>>>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>>>>> work is, and how to get involved.
>>>> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
>>>> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
>>>> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
>>>> there?
>>> I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is there
>>> or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's very QA
>>> specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which feels like
>>> a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get involved with
>>> Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to be sure it fits.
>>> If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it from the wiki.
>>>> I'm seeing things like this:
>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
>>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
>>>> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
>>>> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
>>>> right?
>>> I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's a
>>> decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
>>> wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
>>> see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would allow
>>> it to show up nicely on the site map:
>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/
>>>
>>> But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?
>>>
>>> Clint
>>>> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
>>>> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
>>>> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
>>>> the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Martijn
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have
>>>>> been
>>>>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why* we
>>>>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order of
>>>>> importance:
>>>>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current
>>>>> testing
>>>>> work that is on-going.
>>>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what our
>>>>> work is, and how to get involved.
>>>>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
>>>>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
>>>>>
>>>>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
>>>>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
>>>>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific
>>>>> pages
>>>>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
>>>>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need to
>>>>> be
>>>>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
>>>>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
>>>>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there are
>>>>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done
>>>>> on a
>>>>> team by team basis.
>>>>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new
>>>>> naming
>>>>> convention - "team meeting"
>>>>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
>>>>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it prominently
>>>>> from the main page.
>>>>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
>>>>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
>>>>> etc).
>>>>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which
>>>>> then
>>>>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is
>>>>> just
>>>>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by inserting
>>>>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
>>>>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
>>>>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if
>>>>> other
>>>>> people have this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence
>>>>> significantly
>>>>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need
>>>>> to
>>>>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start changing
>>>>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Clint
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> dev-quality mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-quality mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-quality mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
>>

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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Anthony Hughes-3
Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll look into it for my Loop project page(s).

Anthony Hughes
Senior Test Engineer
Mozilla Corporation


----- Original Message -----

> From: "Geo Mealer" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Anthony Hughes" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>, "Martijn" <[hidden email]>, "dev-quality"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 2:21:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
>
> I believe we can. I have “move privileges” on the public wiki, think Henrik
> does too, probably some others. I think you have to apply for the access.
> Otherwise, probably works like the intranet (haven’t tried there). On public
> wiki, it’ll move the tree, and leave a redirect behind at the original spot.
>
> I was proposing even in cases where we put the tree up at the QA level in the
> first place, we leave a redirect at Project/QA under the assumption people
> may just go there. Maybe just the link at the project home would suffice
> though.
>
> Geo
>
> On Aug 25, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Anthony Hughes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > One of the things I like about the internal wiki (intranet) is that I can
> > "move" a page and all subpages. I don't know if we have this functionality
> > in wiki.mo and that's one reason moving pages around has been difficult
> > and confusion (at least for me).
> >
> > Anthony Hughes
> > Senior Test Engineer
> > Mozilla Corporation
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Geo Mealer" <[hidden email]>
> >> To: "Clint Talbert" <[hidden email]>
> >> Cc: "Martijn" <[hidden email]>, "dev-quality"
> >> <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:45:04 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Updating QA Wiki
> >>
> >> Can we have cake and eat it too?
> >>
> >> Content at QA/Project, redirect at Project/QA?
> >>
> >> Geo
> >>
> >> On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:48 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On 8/22/2014 10:34, Martijn wrote:
> >>>> These all sound like great ideas to me.
> >>>> I recognize the http://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ , where you would get an
> >>>> empty page, it always irritated me. Redirecting it to the QA page
> >>>> would be great!
> >>>>
> >>>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what
> >>>>> our
> >>>>> work is, and how to get involved.
> >>>> I guess I can see a conflict here with what's on MDN, especially
> >>>> regarding on how to get involved. There is already content on MDN on
> >>>> how to get involved, so perhaps, we should get that on MDN and link to
> >>>> there?
> >>> I'll have a look on MDN and see if what I'm thinking of creating is there
> >>> or not. And if what I'm thinking of seems like a good fit. It's very QA
> >>> specific, so I'm not sure if that is appropriate for MDN (which feels
> >>> like
> >>> a pan-Mozilla site, so I would expect general "how to get involved with
> >>> Mozilla" on MDN. I'm open to either option, just want to be sure it fits.
> >>> If the content belongs on MDN, then I'll link to it from the wiki.
> >>>> I'm seeing things like this:
> >>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Loop/QA
> >>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop
> >>>> I always think something like this is confusing. If I understand you
> >>>> correctly, it should all stay on https://wiki.mozilla.org/QA/Loop ,
> >>>> right?
> >>> I agree that's really confusing. I think as to which one we want, that's
> >>> a
> >>> decision we get to make. I see a lot more URLs of the form
> >>> wiki.m.o/QA/<Project> than the other way. The only real advantage I can
> >>> see that one has over the other is that the QA/<Project> style would
> >>> allow
> >>> it to show up nicely on the site map:
> >>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Special:PrefixIndex/QA/
> >>>
> >>> But, I'm happy with either decision. What do people think?
> >>>
> >>> Clint
> >>>> Personally, I don't really like etherpads at all, but I can understand
> >>>> they are much easier to quickly type (although they are frustratingly
> >>>> buggy)  and work together on. But for easier viewing/reading, I prefer
> >>>> the wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Martijn
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Clint Talbert <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hello folks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, as promised, I dove into the wiki at wiki.mozilla.org/QA and have
> >>>>> been
> >>>>> looking at what we can do there. First, let's see if we agree on *why*
> >>>>> we
> >>>>> put content on the wiki in the first place, here's what I see in order
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> importance:
> >>>>> 1. For folks on our teams to find relevant material to the current
> >>>>> testing
> >>>>> work that is on-going.
> >>>>> 2. For new contributors to get oriented: understand who we are, what
> >>>>> our
> >>>>> work is, and how to get involved.
> >>>>> 3. To track our projects, provide simple overviews of status etc.
> >>>>> 4. To hold agendas and archives of meeting notes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The current wiki does all of that, but does it in a way to make finding
> >>>>> anything nearly impossible. Here's a set of what I see:
> >>>>> * P1 - The main page should not pull in huge swaths of team specific
> >>>>> pages
> >>>>> -- that's what makes this an unreadable mess.
> >>>>> * P1 - There are sections that are incredibly out of date - those need
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>> updated, and in most cases just hidden behind "historical stuff": all
> >>>>> mentions of Browser Technologies teams, scrumpads, etc.
> >>>>> * P2 - The team pages are largely excellent and well designed, there
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> some minor tweaks to be made there with each team, but that can be done
> >>>>> on a
> >>>>> team by team basis.
> >>>>> * P2 - The "staff meeting" page should be renamed to reflect the new
> >>>>> naming
> >>>>> convention - "team meeting"
> >>>>> * P1 - There is a bit that could be re-organized around orienting
> >>>>> contributors, probably creating a new page and linking to it
> >>>>> prominently
> >>>>> from the main page.
> >>>>> * P1 - The content of the main page should be one of introduction and
> >>>>> routing to other resources (team pages, orientation page, main meeting,
> >>>>> etc).
> >>>>> * P3? - My browser often will route me to: wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ which
> >>>>> then
> >>>>> says "no page found." I'm not sure if that's because my awesome bar is
> >>>>> just
> >>>>> not being awesome, or if the browser is trying to be helpful by
> >>>>> inserting
> >>>>> that final '/'. Is anyone else having that problem? I think creating a
> >>>>> redirect page at wiki.mozilla.org/QA/ and redirecting it back to
> >>>>> wiki.mozilla.org/QA will solve the problem, so I might do that too if
> >>>>> other
> >>>>> people have this issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think with these few changes, we will make our wiki presence
> >>>>> significantly
> >>>>> more usable. Anyone have other thoughts on either the use cases we need
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> solve for or the things that should be changed?  I plan to start
> >>>>> changing
> >>>>> stuff around come Monday unless I encounter strong opposition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Clint
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> dev-quality mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> dev-quality mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dev-quality mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-quality
> >>
>
>
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Re: Updating QA Wiki

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Geo Mealer
Anthony Hughes schrieb:
> One of the things I like about the internal wiki (intranet) is that I can "move" a page and all subpages. I don't know if we have this functionality in wiki.mo and that's one reason moving pages around has been difficult and confusion (at least for me).

The "move" functionality is currently restricted to admins, but the wiki
working group is discussing giving it to all users again, now that we
are screening all users that create accounts anyhow.

KaiRo

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