Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

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Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Anne van Kesteren
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Jeff Griffiths <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Mike Hoye <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> For whatever it's worth I think that's because we're interrupting people's
>>> by asking them to update, not because they're getting updated.
>>
>> This is probably the single most annoying thing about running Firefox
>> Nightly compared to Chrome dev.
>
> FYI, Dev Edition avoids this by badging the hamburger menu button instead. It’s a little less intrusive - easily ignored. Update happens on the next re-start no matter what.

Are there any plans to roll this out elsewhere? I tried searching
Bugzilla, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for :-(

The current UI on Mac OS of a notification combined with a screen you
have to click through and a reboot (of Firefox) is just too intrusive.
Especially for something that happens daily. And if I don't do it
several days in a row I end up having to do it twice to get the latest
version.


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Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Mike Connor-4
There's a pref for how long until we prompt. The main reason it's aggressive on nightly is to avoid having to constantly do full updates because you missed a day.



On 15 Nov 2014 11:16 AM, at 11:16 AM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Jeff Griffiths
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Mike Hoye <[hidden email]>
>wrote:
>>>> For whatever it's worth I think that's because we're interrupting
>people's
>>>> by asking them to update, not because they're getting updated.
>>>
>>> This is probably the single most annoying thing about running
>Firefox
>>> Nightly compared to Chrome dev.
>>
>> FYI, Dev Edition avoids this by badging the hamburger menu button
>instead. It’s a little less intrusive - easily ignored. Update happens
>on the next re-start no matter what.
>
>Are there any plans to roll this out elsewhere? I tried searching
>Bugzilla, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for :-(
>
>The current UI on Mac OS of a notification combined with a screen you
>have to click through and a reboot (of Firefox) is just too intrusive.
>Especially for something that happens daily. And if I don't do it
>several days in a row I end up having to do it twice to get the latest
>version.
>
>
>--
>https://annevankesteren.nl/
>_______________________________________________
>dev-planning mailing list
>[hidden email]
>https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
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Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Jet Villegas-2
I think the request is to not prompt at all (ie. Silent Updates.)

--Jet



> On Nov 15, 2014, at 8:36 AM, Mike Connor <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There's a pref for how long until we prompt. The main reason it's aggressive on nightly is to avoid having to constantly do full updates because you missed a day.
>
>
>
>> On 15 Nov 2014 11:16 AM, at 11:16 AM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Jeff Griffiths
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Mike Hoye <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>> For whatever it's worth I think that's because we're interrupting
>> people's
>>>>> by asking them to update, not because they're getting updated.
>>>>
>>>> This is probably the single most annoying thing about running
>> Firefox
>>>> Nightly compared to Chrome dev.
>>>
>>> FYI, Dev Edition avoids this by badging the hamburger menu button
>> instead. It’s a little less intrusive - easily ignored. Update happens
>> on the next re-start no matter what.
>>
>> Are there any plans to roll this out elsewhere? I tried searching
>> Bugzilla, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for :-(
>>
>> The current UI on Mac OS of a notification combined with a screen you
>> have to click through and a reboot (of Firefox) is just too intrusive.
>> Especially for something that happens daily. And if I don't do it
>> several days in a row I end up having to do it twice to get the latest
>> version.
>>
>>
>> --
>> https://annevankesteren.nl/
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-planning mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Anne van Kesteren
On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Jet Villegas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think the request is to not prompt at all (ie. Silent Updates.)

Yeah, basically coming up with a way to not intrude the user (or at
least a whole lot less), similar to how e.g. mozilla.org doesn't ask
to reload when we change the markup around. Getting a notification for
software updates just seems really misguided (or is that part only on
Nightly?).


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Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Gavin Sharp-3
In reply to this post by Anne van Kesteren
(This is really a question for firefox-dev, trying to divert the
thread there by moving dev.planning to bcc)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080406 is where the
feature was developed. There are some followups issues with it (see
dependencies in the bug). The feature also hasn't gone through a UX
review, and was designed primarily with the Developer Edition channel
in mind (different release channels have different update schedules
and tradeoffs with regard to security vs. annoyance).

It sounds like you're primarily concerned about the Nightly channel.
The tradeoffs there are very different. Getting the badging feature
enabled there only in the short term while we refine it is a good
idea. Do you want to file a bug?

Gavin

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 8:16 AM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Jeff Griffiths <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Mike Hoye <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> For whatever it's worth I think that's because we're interrupting people's
>>>> by asking them to update, not because they're getting updated.
>>>
>>> This is probably the single most annoying thing about running Firefox
>>> Nightly compared to Chrome dev.
>>
>> FYI, Dev Edition avoids this by badging the hamburger menu button instead. It’s a little less intrusive - easily ignored. Update happens on the next re-start no matter what.
>
> Are there any plans to roll this out elsewhere? I tried searching
> Bugzilla, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for :-(
>
> The current UI on Mac OS of a notification combined with a screen you
> have to click through and a reboot (of Firefox) is just too intrusive.
> Especially for something that happens daily. And if I don't do it
> several days in a row I end up having to do it twice to get the latest
> version.
>
>
> --
> https://annevankesteren.nl/
> _______________________________________________
> dev-planning mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
_______________________________________________
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Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Gavin Sharp-3
In reply to this post by Anne van Kesteren
(again diverting to firefox-dev)

Nightly is the only place where you would see the dialog that
frequently, given its update schedule. The dialog only appears when
the user is idle, and after a fixed time (defined by
app.update.promptWaitTime) has elapsed without a reaction to the
non-intrusive update prompts (e.g. system notifications on Mac).
That's 12 hours on Nightly, 7 days on Aurora, and 2 days on the
beta/release channel.

The notification's purpose is to trade off annoyance with the security
risk of not applying updates (particularly security point releases) in
a timely manner. Most users on the release/beta channel don't see them
at all.

Gavin

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Jet Villegas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think the request is to not prompt at all (ie. Silent Updates.)
>
> Yeah, basically coming up with a way to not intrude the user (or at
> least a whole lot less), similar to how e.g. mozilla.org doesn't ask
> to reload when we change the markup around. Getting a notification for
> software updates just seems really misguided (or is that part only on
> Nightly?).
>
>
> --
> https://annevankesteren.nl/
> _______________________________________________
> dev-planning mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
_______________________________________________
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RE: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)

Robert Strong
In reply to this post by Mike Connor-4
The main reason when we discussed changing the amount of time before
prompting on Nightly is to quickly get feedback on changes. Complete vs.
partial updates wasn't an issue.

Robert


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dev-planning [mailto:dev-planning-
> bounces+rstrong=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike Connor
> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 8:37 AM
> To: Anne van Kesteren
> Cc: Jeffrey Griffiths; dev. planning; Mike Hoye
> Subject: Re: Update UI (was: Re: shorter release cycles?)
>
> There's a pref for how long until we prompt. The main reason it's
> aggressive on
> nightly is to avoid having to constantly do full updates because you
> missed a
> day.
>
>
>
> On 15 Nov 2014 11:16 AM, at 11:16 AM, Anne van Kesteren
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Jeff Griffiths
> ><[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:38 PM, Anne van Kesteren <[hidden email]>
> >wrote:
> >>> On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 9:48 PM, Mike Hoye <[hidden email]>
> >wrote:
> >>>> For whatever it's worth I think that's because we're interrupting
> >people's
> >>>> by asking them to update, not because they're getting updated.
> >>>
> >>> This is probably the single most annoying thing about running
> >Firefox
> >>> Nightly compared to Chrome dev.
> >>
> >> FYI, Dev Edition avoids this by badging the hamburger menu button
> >instead. It’s a little less intrusive - easily ignored. Update happens
> >on the next re-start no matter what.
> >
> >Are there any plans to roll this out elsewhere? I tried searching
> >Bugzilla, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for :-(
> >
> >The current UI on Mac OS of a notification combined with a screen you
> >have to click through and a reboot (of Firefox) is just too intrusive.
> >Especially for something that happens daily. And if I don't do it
> >several days in a row I end up having to do it twice to get the latest
> >version.
> >
> >
> >--
> >https://annevankesteren.nl/
> >_______________________________________________
> >dev-planning mailing list
> >[hidden email]
> >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
> _______________________________________________
> dev-planning mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-planning
_______________________________________________
dev-planning mailing list
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