Trying to understand sign-offs

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Trying to understand sign-offs

Eduardo Trápani
Hi,

I thought sign-offs where the way to tell Mozilla which one of our
revisions was the most (tested and) up-to-date.  But my last sign-off
was rejected because Firefox 7 was already shipped.

I obviously got it wrong, could someone tell me what are we supposed to
sign-off and when?

Thanks, Eduardo.
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Re: Trying to understand sign-offs

flod
Usually we are supposed to sign-off on Aurora in order to get a changeset
moved to beta. If you have further changes or fixes, you can commit to beta
and request a new sign-off on beta.

I suppose your problem was just that Firefox 7 was already built (should be
released in the next hours), so there wasn't enough time to accept it.

Francesco
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Re: Trying to understand sign-offs

Axel Hecht
In reply to this post by Eduardo Trápani
On 27.09.11 16:13, Eduardo Trápani wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I thought sign-offs where the way to tell Mozilla which one of our
> revisions was the most (tested and) up-to-date.  But my last sign-off
> was rejected because Firefox 7 was already shipped.
>
> I obviously got it wrong, could someone tell me what are we supposed to
> sign-off and when?
>
> Thanks, Eduardo.

Hi Eduardo,

yes, you got that right. The devil is in the timing here. The last build
for Firefox 7 was done about a week ago, and has been going through QA
and all that since then. There's more detail on that on
http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/05/11/merge-dates-vs-release-dates/,
written much better than I could.

You should sign-off after you tested your builds. You want to do that in
a timely fashion, because I might still find issues in your latest
state, so after you think you're good, you wanna have some time left in
the schedule to address things that I might find (or other reviewers
like standard8 or callek).

Does that help?

Axel
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Re: Trying to understand sign-offs

Eduardo Trápani
> and all that since then. There's more detail on that on
> http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/05/11/merge-dates-vs-release-dates/,

Thanks Axel, that explains a lot, though I will not yet pretend to fully
understand how this relates l10n.

> You should sign-off after you tested your builds. You want to do that in
> a timely fashion, because I might still find issues in your latest
> state, so after you think you're good, you wanna have some time left in
> the schedule to address things that I might find (or other reviewers
> like standard8 or callek).
>
> Does that help?

Yes, it does.  Though it's not all that clear yet.

According to Development Overview [1], en-US strings are (mostly) frozen
from Aurora onwards, right?  So most of our work should take place on
aurora, maybe simply ignoring central?  So, we would have four weeks
(weeks 7-10), starting next week 2011.10.04 until 2011.11.01, to do l10n
there.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, if a typo is discovered in whatever the latest stable
version is (fx7 now), should I fix it in release?  Or just do it in beta
and wait?  That part of the l10n development process I still don't get.
 Without minor versions it looks as if after shipping the stable version
nothing can be done there (l10n wise).  So I understand that basically
all work would take place in aurora and beta and localizers could simply
ignore central and stable.

Is it ok not to do sign-offs at all, for aurora and beta?  Will you then
pick up the latest changes?  It would be one thing less to think about
(I've forgotten to sign-off before).

I think that reminders to the list about the branch dates (like Axel
just did) are great, but they would be even more useful if they included
other l10n important dates, like the 2011.11.01 above (should that one
be right).  Not sure how many people actually need them, I guess it's
better to setup a calendar, maybe one we can subscribe to.

Eduardo.

[1] http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_overview/
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Re: Trying to understand sign-offs

Axel Hecht
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
On 27.09.11 20:52, Eduardo Trápani wrote:

>> and all that since then. There's more detail on that on
>> http://blog.mozilla.com/channels/2011/05/11/merge-dates-vs-release-dates/,
>
> Thanks Axel, that explains a lot, though I will not yet pretend to fully
> understand how this relates l10n.
>
>> You should sign-off after you tested your builds. You want to do that in
>> a timely fashion, because I might still find issues in your latest
>> state, so after you think you're good, you wanna have some time left in
>> the schedule to address things that I might find (or other reviewers
>> like standard8 or callek).
>>
>> Does that help?
>
> Yes, it does.  Though it's not all that clear yet.
>
> According to Development Overview [1], en-US strings are (mostly) frozen
> from Aurora onwards, right?  So most of our work should take place on
> aurora, maybe simply ignoring central?  So, we would have four weeks
> (weeks 7-10), starting next week 2011.10.04 until 2011.11.01, to do l10n
> there.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

There's a wiki page with the dates on
https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar. Hopefully, we'll get to
something more systematic at some point. LegNeato has an additional two
hands on his job to automate the release infrastructure, and maybe
public calendars fall out of that.

You should have pretty much 6 weeks - a few hours on aurora. It's just
the beta cycle that's cut short for the release builds.

Most localizers should be fine to merely focus on aurora, ignoring both
central and beta. At some point we'll even stop building a good deal of
locales on central.
Landings on beta are really only for late changes and fixes.
Release repos are, IIRC, not even writable for localizers, as we only
take the automatic changes to them.

> By the way, if a typo is discovered in whatever the latest stable
> version is (fx7 now), should I fix it in release?  Or just do it in beta
> and wait?  That part of the l10n development process I still don't get.
>   Without minor versions it looks as if after shipping the stable version
> nothing can be done there (l10n wise).  So I understand that basically
> all work would take place in aurora and beta and localizers could simply
> ignore central and stable.

Release repos are one-time shots at this point. You may want to fix it
in beta, and aurora. The next release we do is going to come from what's
currently in beta anyway, and we'll discard what's in release.

> Is it ok not to do sign-offs at all, for aurora and beta?  Will you then
> pick up the latest changes?  It would be one thing less to think about
> (I've forgotten to sign-off before).

We don't use sign-offs for aurora builds, they're "kind-of" nightly or
daily builds. They're done whenever we have changes to publish. We're
taking sign-offs on aurora so that you don't have to bother about beta
at all. Beta builds are public facing, and thus they're coming off of
revisions that passed technical review. Search is right, as is other
productization, no xml parsing errors unfixed, etc.

> I think that reminders to the list about the branch dates (like Axel
> just did) are great, but they would be even more useful if they included
> other l10n important dates, like the 2011.11.01 above (should that one
> be right).  Not sure how many people actually need them, I guess it's
> better to setup a calendar, maybe one we can subscribe to.

Yeah, adding dates would help. Also, I'll try to rally the troups to get
more outreach emails in the next cycle again.

Axel

> Eduardo.
>
> [1] http://mozilla.github.com/process-releases/draft/development_overview/

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Re: Trying to understand sign-offs

Eduardo Trápani
Thanks a lot Axel!  You answered every question and a couple more I
didn't even now I had before reading the message :).
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