Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

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Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Keenan
Hi Everyone,

As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.

The beginnings of the test plan are at:
[http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility

It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
Wiki or just shoot me some mail.

As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.

Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.




Cheers,

Tim

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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Ray Kiddy-2
Tim Keenan wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
>
> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 
>
> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>
> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>
> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim

Well, there is a "standard" on the Mac. It is the HIG:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html

Any standards as such are more likely to be from the accessibility, L10n
and I18n organizations, so you are asking the question from the correct
perspective.

I am not sure how much the HIG is going to help you, though. Whenever I
have pointed out that there was something on FF or TB on the Mac that
went against the HIG, there was not much response. For example, on TB,
"n" will send you to the next unread article, but keys like this are
supposed to be done with meta-keys on the Mac. But the TB guys will
probably be changing this soon, and I would not say they are wrong.

FYI, I wrote something a bit ago:
http://xoatlicue.blogspot.com/2007/04/random-attempt-at-specifying-firefox-ui.html

To even have the keyboard behaviors in a specification for the different
platforms would be good. I was kind of surprised that with some of the
really good thought and writing about the UI around the Mo-spere, nobody
had thought to do an actual specification. I just got blank looks when I
asked about it, even from people who were actually writing
specifications, and just not calling them such.

I had been pointing out that we really should have test plans,
specifications, and user doc and they should work together, or rather
each should be defined in its relation to the others. The response was
generally "yeah, but". On the other hand, sumo is starting up nicely,
MDC gets better every day and you guys are doing test plans. So, there
is reason to be optimistic.

I would encourage you to think about how an accessibility test plan
might be a subset of a UI test plan. If you lay the accessibility UI
rigorously, why can the same not be done for the UI as a whole?

I'll probably have specific feedback on the test plan. It is good to see
it getting started, though.

thanx - ray
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Ray Kiddy-2
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Tim Keenan wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 

FYI, there is question that is not addressed in the test plan so far.

When are the nightlies going to be built with --enable-accessibility? I
just confirmed that the Mac nightly from July 13 does not have it. I
will check July 20 after it is downloaded, but I would bet it is not
enabled.

What are the things about accessibility that cause a problem for the
nightlies?

You probably need an answer for that to be in the test plan.

FYI, I have done a lot with the generation of automated test cases using
the accessibility APIs on the Mac, so do not be afraid to ask any
questions about this stuff.

- ray
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Steve Lee-3
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Hi Tim, I've not heard of a cross platform standard but FWIW one the
better lists of MS shortcuts I've used is
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301583
It has some non-mainstream apps but also has links to further MS
resources. Even MS don't always follow (e.g Find moves around a bit).

Perhaps you were thinking of FF only or will you cover Thunderbird
etc. as well in time?

Steve

On 20/07/07, Tim Keenan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
>
> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility
>
> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>
> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>
> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>


--
Steve Lee
--
Open Source Assistive Technology Software
PowerTalk - your presentations can speak for themselves
www.fullmeasure.co.uk
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Willie Walker
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Hi Tim:

Thanks for working on this.  Firefox definitely needs accessibility
testing, and I'm so thankful that Mozilla has hired someone to work on
it.  

I would like to encourage the development of regression tests that
include the use of assistive technologies.  Accerciser is a good tool,
and I'm not advocating removing it from the test plan.  Instead, I think
use of actual assistive technologies (e.g., Orca) can go a long way to
helping identify problem areas and regressions in the Firefox
accessibility support.  

We're working on automated regression testing for Orca right now and I'd
be happy to talk with you about the work we're doing.

Thanks!

Willie Walker
Orca Project Lead

On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 14:11 -0800, Tim Keenan wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
>
> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility
>
> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>
> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>
> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility

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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Keenan
In reply to this post by Ray Kiddy-2
Hi Ray,
I agree with you.  My eventual goal will be to integrate the UI
Accessibility Test Plan into the QA Test Plan as a whole.  I got a bit
of a late start on Firefox 3, though, so this is going to have to wait
till 3.5.


Ray Kiddy wrote:

> Tim Keenan wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
>> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
>> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The
>> test plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't
>> want to have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac
>> platform.
>>
>> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
>> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 
>>
>> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
>> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
>> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>>
>> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate
>> test plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
>> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>>
>> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>
> Well, there is a "standard" on the Mac. It is the HIG:
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html 
>
>
> Any standards as such are more likely to be from the accessibility, L10n
> and I18n organizations, so you are asking the question from the correct
> perspective.
>
> I am not sure how much the HIG is going to help you, though. Whenever I
> have pointed out that there was something on FF or TB on the Mac that
> went against the HIG, there was not much response. For example, on TB,
> "n" will send you to the next unread article, but keys like this are
> supposed to be done with meta-keys on the Mac. But the TB guys will
> probably be changing this soon, and I would not say they are wrong.
>
> FYI, I wrote something a bit ago:
> http://xoatlicue.blogspot.com/2007/04/random-attempt-at-specifying-firefox-ui.html 
>
>
> To even have the keyboard behaviors in a specification for the different
> platforms would be good. I was kind of surprised that with some of the
> really good thought and writing about the UI around the Mo-spere, nobody
> had thought to do an actual specification. I just got blank looks when I
> asked about it, even from people who were actually writing
> specifications, and just not calling them such.
>
> I had been pointing out that we really should have test plans,
> specifications, and user doc and they should work together, or rather
> each should be defined in its relation to the others. The response was
> generally "yeah, but". On the other hand, sumo is starting up nicely,
> MDC gets better every day and you guys are doing test plans. So, there
> is reason to be optimistic.
>
> I would encourage you to think about how an accessibility test plan
> might be a subset of a UI test plan. If you lay the accessibility UI
> rigorously, why can the same not be done for the UI as a whole?
>
> I'll probably have specific feedback on the test plan. It is good to see
> it getting started, though.
>
> thanx - ray
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Keenan
In reply to this post by Ray Kiddy-2
Hi Ray,
I had heard that the Mac nightlies ship with the accessibility flag
disabled.  I'm not sure of the reason for this, or any reason why it
can't be enabled.
I was told that the accessibility support on the Mac side just isn't in
an advanced enough state for us to realistically have equal access for
Firefox 3.
Perhaps Aaron can shed some light on this.

Ray Kiddy wrote:

> Tim Keenan wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
>> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 
>
>
> FYI, there is question that is not addressed in the test plan so far.
>
> When are the nightlies going to be built with --enable-accessibility? I
> just confirmed that the Mac nightly from July 13 does not have it. I
> will check July 20 after it is downloaded, but I would bet it is not
> enabled.
>
> What are the things about accessibility that cause a problem for the
> nightlies?
>
> You probably need an answer for that to be in the test plan.
>
> FYI, I have done a lot with the generation of automated test cases using
> the accessibility APIs on the Mac, so do not be afraid to ask any
> questions about this stuff.
>
> - ray
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Keenan
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Hi Steve,
For the moment, Thunderbird is a lower priority.  I'm about to be
deluged with new UI elements as Firefox 3 goes to beta 1, and I don't
think I'm going to have time to put the appropriate amount of effort
into thoroughly testing Thunderbird for accessibility in the same way I
plan to test Firefox.
As we get closer to Thunderbird 3, though, I'll be keeping on top of UI
changes and doing my best to ensure there are no regressions.



 >
-Tim


Steve Lee wrote:

> Hi Tim, I've not heard of a cross platform standard but FWIW one the
> better lists of MS shortcuts I've used is
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301583
> It has some non-mainstream apps but also has links to further MS
> resources. Even MS don't always follow (e.g Find moves around a bit).
>
> Perhaps you were thinking of FF only or will you cover Thunderbird
> etc. as well in time?
>
> Steve
>
> On 20/07/07, Tim Keenan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
>> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
>> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
>> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
>> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
>>
>> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
>> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 
>>
>>
>> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
>> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
>> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>>
>> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
>> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
>> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>>
>> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Keenan
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Hi Will,

My plan is to primarily use AT to test for regressions, as you said.
Accerciser will be a helpful addition on the Linux side, but primarily
the testing will be done with actual AT, such as Orca.
Now, if I could just get Ubuntu or some distro up and working with Orca,
I will be in a better situation to test things on the Linux side.
Luckilly, it seems we've got a great group of folks associated with Orca
who have done  a ton of work to get Firefox 3 Linux access where it is
today.



 >




Willie Walker wrote:

> Hi Tim:
>
> Thanks for working on this.  Firefox definitely needs accessibility
> testing, and I'm so thankful that Mozilla has hired someone to work on
> it.  
>
> I would like to encourage the development of regression tests that
> include the use of assistive technologies.  Accerciser is a good tool,
> and I'm not advocating removing it from the test plan.  Instead, I think
> use of actual assistive technologies (e.g., Orca) can go a long way to
> helping identify problem areas and regressions in the Firefox
> accessibility support.  
>
> We're working on automated regression testing for Orca right now and I'd
> be happy to talk with you about the work we're doing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Willie Walker
> Orca Project Lead
>
> On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 14:11 -0800, Tim Keenan wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
>> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
>> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
>> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
>> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
>>
>> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
>> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility
>>
>> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
>> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
>> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
>>
>> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
>> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
>> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
>>
>> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Tim Miao
Hi Tim,

I think we could contribute some orca harness automation testcases for
you since we have done this for a while. The test cases could cover
keyboard navigation and part of screen reader scenario on gnome desktop.

Thanks
-Tim Miao
On Mon, 2007-07-23 at 16:01 -0800, Tim Keenan wrote:

> Hi Will,
>
> My plan is to primarily use AT to test for regressions, as you said.
> Accerciser will be a helpful addition on the Linux side, but primarily
> the testing will be done with actual AT, such as Orca.
> Now, if I could just get Ubuntu or some distro up and working with Orca,
> I will be in a better situation to test things on the Linux side.
> Luckilly, it seems we've got a great group of folks associated with Orca
> who have done  a ton of work to get Firefox 3 Linux access where it is
> today.
>
>
>
>  >
>
>
>
>
> Willie Walker wrote:
> > Hi Tim:
> >
> > Thanks for working on this.  Firefox definitely needs accessibility
> > testing, and I'm so thankful that Mozilla has hired someone to work on
> > it.  
> >
> > I would like to encourage the development of regression tests that
> > include the use of assistive technologies.  Accerciser is a good tool,
> > and I'm not advocating removing it from the test plan.  Instead, I think
> > use of actual assistive technologies (e.g., Orca) can go a long way to
> > helping identify problem areas and regressions in the Firefox
> > accessibility support.  
> >
> > We're working on automated regression testing for Orca right now and I'd
> > be happy to talk with you about the work we're doing.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Willie Walker
> > Orca Project Lead
> >
> > On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 14:11 -0800, Tim Keenan wrote:
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >>
> >> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
> >> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
> >> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The test
> >> plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't want to
> >> have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac platform.
> >>
> >> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
> >> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility
> >>
> >> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
> >> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
> >> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
> >>
> >> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate test
> >> plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
> >> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
> >>
> >> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> dev-accessibility mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility

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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

T.V Raman
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan

One useful reusable piece to have with respect to such testing
would be the ability to programmatically invoke interactive
functionality exposed by a Web page. I suspect  Firefox
extensions like ChickenFoot may have already built  some of the
needed code; leveraging some of that code might speed things up.

For those who haven't seen ChickenFoot -- it provides a slightly
easier means of end-user scripting than Greasemonkey.

Tim Keenan writes:
 > Hi Ray,
 > I agree with you.  My eventual goal will be to integrate the UI
 > Accessibility Test Plan into the QA Test Plan as a whole.  I got a bit
 > of a late start on Firefox 3, though, so this is going to have to wait
 > till 3.5.
 >
 >
 > Ray Kiddy wrote:
 > > Tim Keenan wrote:
 > >> Hi Everyone,
 > >>
 > >> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's an
 > >> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted
 > >> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.  The
 > >> test plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I don't
 > >> want to have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac
 > >> platform.
 > >>
 > >> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
 > >> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility 
 > >>
 > >> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility test
 > >> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment the
 > >> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
 > >>
 > >> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a separate
 > >> test plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
 > >> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the installer.
 > >>
 > >> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
 > >>
 > >>
 > >> Cheers,
 > >>
 > >> Tim
 > >
 > > Well, there is a "standard" on the Mac. It is the HIG:
 > > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html 
 > >
 > >
 > > Any standards as such are more likely to be from the accessibility, L10n
 > > and I18n organizations, so you are asking the question from the correct
 > > perspective.
 > >
 > > I am not sure how much the HIG is going to help you, though. Whenever I
 > > have pointed out that there was something on FF or TB on the Mac that
 > > went against the HIG, there was not much response. For example, on TB,
 > > "n" will send you to the next unread article, but keys like this are
 > > supposed to be done with meta-keys on the Mac. But the TB guys will
 > > probably be changing this soon, and I would not say they are wrong.
 > >
 > > FYI, I wrote something a bit ago:
 > > http://xoatlicue.blogspot.com/2007/04/random-attempt-at-specifying-firefox-ui.html 
 > >
 > >
 > > To even have the keyboard behaviors in a specification for the different
 > > platforms would be good. I was kind of surprised that with some of the
 > > really good thought and writing about the UI around the Mo-spere, nobody
 > > had thought to do an actual specification. I just got blank looks when I
 > > asked about it, even from people who were actually writing
 > > specifications, and just not calling them such.
 > >
 > > I had been pointing out that we really should have test plans,
 > > specifications, and user doc and they should work together, or rather
 > > each should be defined in its relation to the others. The response was
 > > generally "yeah, but". On the other hand, sumo is starting up nicely,
 > > MDC gets better every day and you guys are doing test plans. So, there
 > > is reason to be optimistic.
 > >
 > > I would encourage you to think about how an accessibility test plan
 > > might be a subset of a UI test plan. If you lay the accessibility UI
 > > rigorously, why can the same not be done for the UI as a whole?
 > >
 > > I'll probably have specific feedback on the test plan. It is good to see
 > > it getting started, though.
 > >
 > > thanx - ray
 > _______________________________________________
 > dev-accessibility mailing list
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

James Nam
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
Hello,
I will be more than happy to be involved with testing, UA etc...
Also have some state agencies who are excited to get involved as well.
thanks!

James Nam
MIS
Department of Human Services.
Cell: 217-836-8546
Direct: 312-793-4168
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>>> "T.V Raman" <[hidden email]> 07/24/07 10:04 AM >>>

One useful reusable piece to have with respect to such testing
would be the ability to programmatically invoke interactive
functionality exposed by a Web page. I suspect  Firefox
extensions like ChickenFoot may have already built  some of the
needed code; leveraging some of that code might speed things up.

For those who haven't seen ChickenFoot -- it provides a slightly
easier means of end-user scripting than Greasemonkey.

Tim Keenan writes:
 > Hi Ray,
 > I agree with you.  My eventual goal will be to integrate the UI
 > Accessibility Test Plan into the QA Test Plan as a whole.  I got a
bit
 > of a late start on Firefox 3, though, so this is going to have to
wait
 > till 3.5.
 >
 >
 > Ray Kiddy wrote:
 > > Tim Keenan wrote:
 > >> Hi Everyone,
 > >>
 > >> As I was writing up the test plan, I started to wonder if there's
an
 > >> actual standard somewhere that sets down these generally accepted

 > >> keyboard conventions that are generally used on all platforms.
The
 > >> test plan for Firefox 3 wil only cover Linux and Win32, but I
don't
 > >> want to have to go back later and correct differences on the Mac

 > >> platform.
 > >>
 > >> The beginnings of the test plan are at:
 > >>
[http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Home_Page:Firefox_3.0_TestPlan:UIAccessibility

 > >>
 > >> It's a work in progress.  This is really the first accessibility
test
 > >> plan I've done, so feedback is critical.  You can either comment
the
 > >> Wiki or just shoot me some mail.
 > >>
 > >> As you'll notice, I've split things up so there will be a
separate
 > >> test plan for Gecko rendering of all types of web pages.
 > >> There will also be a separate accessibility test plan for the
installer.
 > >>
 > >> Right now the only thing (half) written is the UI test plan.
 > >>
 > >>
 > >> Cheers,
 > >>
 > >> Tim
 > >
 > > Well, there is a "standard" on the Mac. It is the HIG:
 > >
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html

 > >
 > >
 > > Any standards as such are more likely to be from the
accessibility, L10n
 > > and I18n organizations, so you are asking the question from the
correct
 > > perspective.
 > >
 > > I am not sure how much the HIG is going to help you, though.
Whenever I
 > > have pointed out that there was something on FF or TB on the Mac
that
 > > went against the HIG, there was not much response. For example, on
TB,
 > > "n" will send you to the next unread article, but keys like this
are
 > > supposed to be done with meta-keys on the Mac. But the TB guys
will
 > > probably be changing this soon, and I would not say they are
wrong.
 > >
 > > FYI, I wrote something a bit ago:
 > >
http://xoatlicue.blogspot.com/2007/04/random-attempt-at-specifying-firefox-ui.html

 > >
 > >
 > > To even have the keyboard behaviors in a specification for the
different
 > > platforms would be good. I was kind of surprised that with some of
the
 > > really good thought and writing about the UI around the Mo-spere,
nobody
 > > had thought to do an actual specification. I just got blank looks
when I
 > > asked about it, even from people who were actually writing
 > > specifications, and just not calling them such.
 > >
 > > I had been pointing out that we really should have test plans,
 > > specifications, and user doc and they should work together, or
rather
 > > each should be defined in its relation to the others. The response
was
 > > generally "yeah, but". On the other hand, sumo is starting up
nicely,
 > > MDC gets better every day and you guys are doing test plans. So,
there
 > > is reason to be optimistic.
 > >
 > > I would encourage you to think about how an accessibility test
plan
 > > might be a subset of a UI test plan. If you lay the accessibility
UI
 > > rigorously, why can the same not be done for the UI as a whole?
 > >
 > > I'll probably have specific feedback on the test plan. It is good
to see
 > > it getting started, though.
 > >
 > > thanx - ray
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--
Best Regards,
--raman

Title:  Research Scientist      
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Ray Kiddy-2
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
T.V Raman wrote:
> One useful reusable piece to have with respect to such testing
> would be the ability to programmatically invoke interactive
> functionality exposed by a Web page. I suspect  Firefox
> extensions like ChickenFoot may have already built  some of the
> needed code; leveraging some of that code might speed things up.
>
> For those who haven't seen ChickenFoot -- it provides a slightly
> easier means of end-user scripting than Greasemonkey.
>

"programmatically invoke"? As is, what mochitest does?

I think the hard part about automating accessibility is the
platform-specific UI interaction.

The mochitest framework is even able to generate JS events. It is not
trivial to learn how to do it.

- ray
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Re: Test Plan and Cross-platform Keyboard Conventions

Steve Lee-3
In reply to this post by Tim Keenan
On 24/07/07, Tim Keenan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> For the moment, Thunderbird is a lower priority.

It seems that Mitchell has now provided the answer on Thundebird. At
least you can focus efforts on firefox if I read it right.

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/mitchell/archives/2007/07/email_futures.html

Steve
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