Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

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Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Gordon P. Hemsley
(This message is cross-posted to both the mozilla.dev.l10n and
mozilla.dev.i18n newsgroups; feel free to use either to respond.)

Hello all,

Axel wanted me to let you know that work is progressing on getting
support for the latest BCP 47 into Firefox.

For starters, the main bug we're working in (though it will likely
become a tracking bug once we get into the nitty gritty) is bug 356038
(alias: bcp47).

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038

Kevin Scannell and I have also put together a wiki page to detail
precisely what our plan of action will be.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47

Our intent is to fully and properly implement BCP 47 and improve
language preference selection within Firefox, while also limiting the
impact on the l10n and i18n communities.

As such, we encourage you to voice your thoughts and opinions on this
process. None of the steps of the plan of action are set in stone, so
feel free to correct and update the wiki page or discuss controversial
portions here.

You may also ask any questions or raise any issues we haven't thought
of.

Thanks,
Gordon

P.S.
For those wondering:
Kevin has an extensive background in computational linguistics and
natural language processing. He also is very active with translation
and localization into endangered and minority languages, particularly
of the Celtic variety (e.g. Irish, Scottish, and Manx Gaelic).
I just graduated with a Bachelor's degree in general linguistics (with
a particular interest in syntax and endangered and minority
languages), and I plan to pursue further graduate work in linguistics
this fall.
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Jesper Kristensen-4
Den 10-06-2011 18:50, GPHemsley skrev:

> (This message is cross-posted to both the mozilla.dev.l10n and
> mozilla.dev.i18n newsgroups; feel free to use either to respond.)
>
> Hello all,
>
> Axel wanted me to let you know that work is progressing on getting
> support for the latest BCP 47 into Firefox.
>
> For starters, the main bug we're working in (though it will likely
> become a tracking bug once we get into the nitty gritty) is bug 356038
> (alias: bcp47).
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038
>
> Kevin Scannell and I have also put together a wiki page to detail
> precisely what our plan of action will be.
>
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47
>
> Our intent is to fully and properly implement BCP 47 and improve
> language preference selection within Firefox, while also limiting the
> impact on the l10n and i18n communities.
>
> As such, we encourage you to voice your thoughts and opinions on this
> process. None of the steps of the plan of action are set in stone, so
> feel free to correct and update the wiki page or discuss controversial
> portions here.
>
> You may also ask any questions or raise any issues we haven't thought
> of.
>
> Thanks,
> Gordon

I am not sure if it is related or relevant to you, but since your wiki
page seems to list where language codes and language names are used:

There is a desire, and maybe even a plan, to add the ability for Firefox
to automatically choose the right spell check dictionary based amongst
other things on the HTML lang attribute. It would most likely involve
comparing language codes to find a best fit.
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Gordon P. Hemsley
On Jun 10, 3:00 pm, Jesper Kristensen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Den 10-06-2011 18:50, GPHemsley skrev:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > (This message is cross-posted to both the mozilla.dev.l10n and
> > mozilla.dev.i18n newsgroups; feel free to use either to respond.)
>
> > Hello all,
>
> > Axel wanted me to let you know that work is progressing on getting
> > support for the latest BCP 47 into Firefox.
>
> > For starters, the main bug we're working in (though it will likely
> > become a tracking bug once we get into the nitty gritty) is bug 356038
> > (alias: bcp47).
>
> >https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038
>
> > Kevin Scannell and I have also put together a wiki page to detail
> > precisely what our plan of action will be.
>
> >https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47
>
> > Our intent is to fully and properly implement BCP 47 and improve
> > language preference selection within Firefox, while also limiting the
> > impact on the l10n and i18n communities.
>
> > As such, we encourage you to voice your thoughts and opinions on this
> > process. None of the steps of the plan of action are set in stone, so
> > feel free to correct and update the wiki page or discuss controversial
> > portions here.
>
> > You may also ask any questions or raise any issues we haven't thought
> > of.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Gordon
>
> I am not sure if it is related or relevant to you, but since your wiki
> page seems to list where language codes and language names are used:
>
> There is a desire, and maybe even a plan, to add the ability for Firefox
> to automatically choose the right spell check dictionary based amongst
> other things on the HTML lang attribute. It would most likely involve
> comparing language codes to find a best fit.

Ah, yes! I'm glad to hear that there's finally a usecase that can take
advantage of the HTML lang attribute.

I've added a note to the wiki page that this is part of the desired
state for spellchecking.

Thanks,
Gordon
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Axel Hecht
Am 10.06.11 21:55, schrieb Gordon P. Hemsley:

> On Jun 10, 3:00 pm, Jesper Kristensen
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Den 10-06-2011 18:50, GPHemsley skrev:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> (This message is cross-posted to both the mozilla.dev.l10n and
>>> mozilla.dev.i18n newsgroups; feel free to use either to respond.)
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>
>>> Axel wanted me to let you know that work is progressing on getting
>>> support for the latest BCP 47 into Firefox.
>>
>>> For starters, the main bug we're working in (though it will likely
>>> become a tracking bug once we get into the nitty gritty) is bug 356038
>>> (alias: bcp47).
>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038
>>
>>> Kevin Scannell and I have also put together a wiki page to detail
>>> precisely what our plan of action will be.
>>
>>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47
>>
>>> Our intent is to fully and properly implement BCP 47 and improve
>>> language preference selection within Firefox, while also limiting the
>>> impact on the l10n and i18n communities.
>>
>>> As such, we encourage you to voice your thoughts and opinions on this
>>> process. None of the steps of the plan of action are set in stone, so
>>> feel free to correct and update the wiki page or discuss controversial
>>> portions here.
>>
>>> You may also ask any questions or raise any issues we haven't thought
>>> of.
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gordon
>>
>> I am not sure if it is related or relevant to you, but since your wiki
>> page seems to list where language codes and language names are used:
>>
>> There is a desire, and maybe even a plan, to add the ability for Firefox
>> to automatically choose the right spell check dictionary based amongst
>> other things on the HTML lang attribute. It would most likely involve
>> comparing language codes to find a best fit.
>
> Ah, yes! I'm glad to hear that there's finally a usecase that can take
> advantage of the HTML lang attribute.
>
> I've added a note to the wiki page that this is part of the desired
> state for spellchecking.
>

Also hyphenation, http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#hyphenation.

Axel
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Gordon P. Hemsley
On Jun 10, 6:05 pm, Axel Hecht <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Am 10.06.11 21:55, schrieb Gordon P. Hemsley:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 3:00 pm, Jesper Kristensen
> > <[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >> Den 10-06-2011 18:50, GPHemsley skrev:
>
> >>> (This message is cross-posted to both the mozilla.dev.l10n and
> >>> mozilla.dev.i18n newsgroups; feel free to use either to respond.)
>
> >>> Hello all,
>
> >>> Axel wanted me to let you know that work is progressing on getting
> >>> support for the latest BCP 47 into Firefox.
>
> >>> For starters, the main bug we're working in (though it will likely
> >>> become a tracking bug once we get into the nitty gritty) is bug 356038
> >>> (alias: bcp47).
>
> >>>https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038
>
> >>> Kevin Scannell and I have also put together a wiki page to detail
> >>> precisely what our plan of action will be.
>
> >>>https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47
>
> >>> Our intent is to fully and properly implement BCP 47 and improve
> >>> language preference selection within Firefox, while also limiting the
> >>> impact on the l10n and i18n communities.
>
> >>> As such, we encourage you to voice your thoughts and opinions on this
> >>> process. None of the steps of the plan of action are set in stone, so
> >>> feel free to correct and update the wiki page or discuss controversial
> >>> portions here.
>
> >>> You may also ask any questions or raise any issues we haven't thought
> >>> of.
>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Gordon
>
> >> I am not sure if it is related or relevant to you, but since your wiki
> >> page seems to list where language codes and language names are used:
>
> >> There is a desire, and maybe even a plan, to add the ability for Firefox
> >> to automatically choose the right spell check dictionary based amongst
> >> other things on the HTML lang attribute. It would most likely involve
> >> comparing language codes to find a best fit.
>
> > Ah, yes! I'm glad to hear that there's finally a usecase that can take
> > advantage of the HTML lang attribute.
>
> > I've added a note to the wiki page that this is part of the desired
> > state for spellchecking.
>
> Also hyphenation,http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#hyphenation.
>
> Axel

Ah, yes, good point. And it's probably even more important, since it
actually landed in Firefox proper. (Was it 5, 6, or 7?)

I've added a section for hyphenation to the wiki page, but I don't
know what the current or desired states are for that at the moment.
Could someone who's more familiar with the new feature add some basic
information to the wiki page?

Thanks,
Gordon
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Gordon P. Hemsley
In reply to this post by Gordon P. Hemsley
On Jun 11, 11:56 am, "Tim Chien (MozTW)" <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> I would like to high light the discussion AGAIN about the
> political-biased ISO 3166 country/region names regarding Taiwan and
> Macedonia.
>
> It would be devastated for community if such change landed without revise.

As I've stated in the past, it is not a goal of this bug to change any
politically-charged names.

The IANA Language Subtag Registry lists certain names for certain
regions for their own reasons. Should the Mozilla communities feel
that a different name is more appropriate, this current plan (as
available on the wiki) allows for those changes to be made without
significant issue.

Our current thought is to create a master list based on the IANA
registry (which includes the names which you feel are inappropriate)
and then allow the locales (including 'en-US') to choose whichever
translation is most appropriate. This may result in the "translation"
from English to English in order to correct for any biases the region
names may encode. There would be no noticeable difference to users in
those regions.

I hope that eases your worries.

Gordon
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Re: Support for BCP 47 (Tags for Identifying Languages)

Gordon P. Hemsley-2
In reply to this post by Gordon P. Hemsley
I just want to update everyone on the progress we've made. This work is
currently underway.

First, the wiki page has likely been updated since the last time you
read it, so I'll post the link again:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:GPHemsley/BCP_47

However, the list of bugs there is not currently complete or
comprehensive. For a full list, use the bug search links on the wiki
page, or just go straight to the tracking bug:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356038

Most importantly, we have a repository on GitHub where we are working on
the scripts that generate the lists of subtags and related items:
https://github.com/GPHemsley/BCP47

We are working on also getting an official project branch set up so that
we can work directly on the m-c codebase with the full Mozilla
architecture behind us. That bug is here:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667734

We have had a couple of conference calls discussing what our current
next steps are. The details of those calls are on the wiki, and we'll
likely be having more in the future.

Many of the changes we'd like to make will require extensive input from
the UX team to redesign the language and font selection UIs. In the
meantime, our focus will be on these two bugs:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666662
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=666731

Things are not yet set in stone (well, when are they ever?), so if you
have input, it's still very much appreciated.

If there are issues about the language or region names that our script
has chosen, please raise them in bug 666662. It is trivial to override
the choice of names and regenerate the list. (We also have no plans to
change any names that are already in the codebase, so if we've missed
something, please speak up.)

So that's where we are now. Any questions, comments, suggestions, or
concerns?

Gordon
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