Starting point for development effort

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Starting point for development effort

R Cook
I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.  

I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
make that translation.

Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
devices?

I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.

rc
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Re: Starting point for development effort

Aaron Leventhal-3
Hello,

That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine,
which is not at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had
a top down view of it, so that newly interested developers
such as yourself could delve into it easily.

Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code
often evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You
can use them to get the general idea of what the various
components do, but good luck after that.

Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets
their hand held either. The truth is, the really good
Mozilla coders have just been plain stubborn and refused to
give up, and just investigate and hack the code until they
understand it. This generally means building it from source,
and trying to fix some small bug just to get started.

Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.

The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup
for this kind of questions. Try to find a more general
newsgroup. There's also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.

- Aaron



R Cook wrote:

> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.  
>
> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
> make that translation.
>
> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
> devices?
>
> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>
> rc
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Re: Starting point for an accessability development effort

R Cook
Well, you're right that this question is off-topic the way I asked it.
Let me try again.

I would assume that someone writing an accessibility function for
viewing, perhaps a magnifier or something, starts with some
representation of what would go on a normal screen.  In other words,
I'm assuming that the accessibility code, in some cases, doesn't need
(or want) to do anything different with placement, etc., it just wants
to manipulate the image that would go in a normal browser if the
accessbility function were not being used.

Is Gecko code the place I would look for that data structure /
information, or is there something a little higher level for
accessibility people to start with?

Your post says "Here are some docs" -- did you just mean "over in the
Gecko project", or is there a link you meant to put in?

rc

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:39:35 -0400, Aaron Leventhal
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine,
>which is not at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had
>a top down view of it, so that newly interested developers
>such as yourself could delve into it easily.
>
>Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code
>often evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You
>can use them to get the general idea of what the various
>components do, but good luck after that.
>
>Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets
>their hand held either. The truth is, the really good
>Mozilla coders have just been plain stubborn and refused to
>give up, and just investigate and hack the code until they
>understand it. This generally means building it from source,
>and trying to fix some small bug just to get started.
>
>Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.
>
>The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup
>for this kind of questions. Try to find a more general
>newsgroup. There's also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.
>
>- Aaron
>
>
>
>R Cook wrote:
>> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.  
>>
>> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
>> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
>> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
>> make that translation.
>>
>> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
>> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
>> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
>> devices?
>>
>> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
>> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
>> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>
>> rc
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Re: Starting point for an accessability development effort

Aaron Leventhal-3
Here are the developer docs I meant to provide:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/

BTW, Mozilla is already going to be adding full page zoom
(including images) in Firefox 3.

- Aaron

R Cook wrote:

> Well, you're right that this question is off-topic the way I asked it.
> Let me try again.
>
> I would assume that someone writing an accessibility function for
> viewing, perhaps a magnifier or something, starts with some
> representation of what would go on a normal screen.  In other words,
> I'm assuming that the accessibility code, in some cases, doesn't need
> (or want) to do anything different with placement, etc., it just wants
> to manipulate the image that would go in a normal browser if the
> accessbility function were not being used.
>
> Is Gecko code the place I would look for that data structure /
> information, or is there something a little higher level for
> accessibility people to start with?
>
> Your post says "Here are some docs" -- did you just mean "over in the
> Gecko project", or is there a link you meant to put in?
>
> rc
>
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:39:35 -0400, Aaron Leventhal
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine,
>> which is not at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had
>> a top down view of it, so that newly interested developers
>> such as yourself could delve into it easily.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code
>> often evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You
>> can use them to get the general idea of what the various
>> components do, but good luck after that.
>>
>> Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets
>> their hand held either. The truth is, the really good
>> Mozilla coders have just been plain stubborn and refused to
>> give up, and just investigate and hack the code until they
>> understand it. This generally means building it from source,
>> and trying to fix some small bug just to get started.
>>
>> Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.
>>
>> The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup
>> for this kind of questions. Try to find a more general
>> newsgroup. There's also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>> R Cook wrote:
>>> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.  
>>>
>>> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
>>> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
>>> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
>>> make that translation.
>>>
>>> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
>>> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
>>> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
>>> devices?
>>>
>>> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
>>> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
>>> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>>
>>> rc
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Re: Starting point for an accessability development effort

crayne
In reply to this post by R Cook




To take the example of an image magnifier -- if you put the image in a
separate window, you manipulate the original image and place it in the new
window.  If you want your magnified image to be part of the browser page,
you may need to modify the DOM settings to change the placement of the
image. Firefox/Mozilla contain Javascript APIs for DOM manipulation.

Susan

Accessibility Research
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
19 Skyline Drive, Hawthorne, NY  10532  USA

914-784-7713
8-863-7713



                                                                                                                                                     
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                      mozilla.org                             Subject:  Re: Starting point for an accessability development effort                    
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     
                      08/22/06 07:59 AM                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                                     




Well, you're right that this question is off-topic the way I asked it.
Let me try again.

I would assume that someone writing an accessibility function for
viewing, perhaps a magnifier or something, starts with some
representation of what would go on a normal screen.  In other words,
I'm assuming that the accessibility code, in some cases, doesn't need
(or want) to do anything different with placement, etc., it just wants
to manipulate the image that would go in a normal browser if the
accessbility function were not being used.

Is Gecko code the place I would look for that data structure /
information, or is there something a little higher level for
accessibility people to start with?

Your post says "Here are some docs" -- did you just mean "over in the
Gecko project", or is there a link you meant to put in?

rc

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:39:35 -0400, Aaron Leventhal
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine,
>which is not at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had
>a top down view of it, so that newly interested developers
>such as yourself could delve into it easily.
>
>Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code
>often evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You
>can use them to get the general idea of what the various
>components do, but good luck after that.
>
>Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets
>their hand held either. The truth is, the really good
>Mozilla coders have just been plain stubborn and refused to
>give up, and just investigate and hack the code until they
>understand it. This generally means building it from source,
>and trying to fix some small bug just to get started.
>
>Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.
>
>The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup
>for this kind of questions. Try to find a more general
>newsgroup. There's also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.
>
>- Aaron
>
>
>
>R Cook wrote:
>> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.
>>
>> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
>> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
>> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
>> make that translation.
>>
>> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
>> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
>> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
>> devices?
>>
>> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
>> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
>> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>
>> rc
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full page zoom

Jonathan Chetwynd
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
Aaron,

How is full page zoom going to work?


I ask because SVG has this facility, but css & html allows a single  
slide to cover whole zoomed documents
eg http://www.peepo.co.uk/mybbc/index.html

and wondering how SVG might incorporate this functionality in a  
useful way...

furthermore I'm also currently building html pages that include SVG.

So all three of these might be effected by full page zoom

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 22 Aug 2006, at 14:03, Aaron Leventhal wrote:

Here are the developer docs I meant to provide:
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/

BTW, Mozilla is already going to be adding full page zoom (including  
images) in Firefox 3.

- Aaron

R Cook wrote:

> Well, you're right that this question is off-topic the way I asked it.
> Let me try again.
> I would assume that someone writing an accessibility function for
> viewing, perhaps a magnifier or something, starts with some
> representation of what would go on a normal screen.  In other words,
> I'm assuming that the accessibility code, in some cases, doesn't need
> (or want) to do anything different with placement, etc., it just wants
> to manipulate the image that would go in a normal browser if the
> accessbility function were not being used.
> Is Gecko code the place I would look for that data structure /
> information, or is there something a little higher level for
> accessibility people to start with?
> Your post says "Here are some docs" -- did you just mean "over in the
> Gecko project", or is there a link you meant to put in?
> rc
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:39:35 -0400, Aaron Leventhal
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine, which is  
>> not at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had a top down view  
>> of it, so that newly interested developers such as yourself could  
>> delve into it easily.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code often  
>> evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You can use them  
>> to get the general idea of what the various components do, but  
>> good luck after that.
>>
>> Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets their hand  
>> held either. The truth is, the really good Mozilla coders have  
>> just been plain stubborn and refused to give up, and just  
>> investigate and hack the code until they understand it. This  
>> generally means building it from source, and trying to fix some  
>> small bug just to get started.
>>
>> Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.
>>
>> The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup for  
>> this kind of questions. Try to find a more general newsgroup.  
>> There's also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>>
>> R Cook wrote:
>>> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.
>>> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm  
>>> figure the
>>> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into  
>>> pixels
>>> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
>>> make that translation.
>>> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
>>> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
>>> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
>>> devices?
>>>
>>> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
>>> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
>>> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>>
>>> rc
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Re: full page zoom

Aaron Leventhal-3
Hello,

I'm not sure what the details of the feature are yet, but I believe it
will be integrated with Mozilla's SVG support. We have a lot of time
before this feature even becomes something we can try in an alpha.

 > css & html allows a single slide to cover whole zoomed documents
What does that mean?

- Aaron

Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:

> Aaron,
>
> How is full page zoom going to work?
>
>
> I ask because SVG has this facility, but css & html allows a single
> slide to cover whole zoomed documents
> eg http://www.peepo.co.uk/mybbc/index.html
>
> and wondering how SVG might incorporate this functionality in a useful
> way...
>
> furthermore I'm also currently building html pages that include SVG.
>
> So all three of these might be effected by full page zoom
>
> regards
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
>
>
>
> On 22 Aug 2006, at 14:03, Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>
> Here are the developer docs I meant to provide:
> http://www.mozilla.org/docs/
>
> BTW, Mozilla is already going to be adding full page zoom (including
> images) in Firefox 3.
>
> - Aaron
>
> R Cook wrote:
>> Well, you're right that this question is off-topic the way I asked it.
>> Let me try again.
>> I would assume that someone writing an accessibility function for
>> viewing, perhaps a magnifier or something, starts with some
>> representation of what would go on a normal screen.  In other words,
>> I'm assuming that the accessibility code, in some cases, doesn't need
>> (or want) to do anything different with placement, etc., it just wants
>> to manipulate the image that would go in a normal browser if the
>> accessbility function were not being used.
>> Is Gecko code the place I would look for that data structure /
>> information, or is there something a little higher level for
>> accessibility people to start with?
>> Your post says "Here are some docs" -- did you just mean "over in the
>> Gecko project", or is there a link you meant to put in?
>> rc
>> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:39:35 -0400, Aaron Leventhal
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> That's the architecture of Gecko, the rendering engine, which is not
>>> at all simple. It would be wonderful if we had a top down view of
>>> it, so that newly interested developers such as yourself could delve
>>> into it easily.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the way it really works is that the code often
>>> evolves quickly and the docs are rarely updated. You can use them to
>>> get the general idea of what the various components do, but good
>>> luck after that.
>>>
>>> Not that you're on your own, but then again no one gets their hand
>>> held either. The truth is, the really good Mozilla coders have just
>>> been plain stubborn and refused to give up, and just investigate and
>>> hack the code until they understand it. This generally means
>>> building it from source, and trying to fix some small bug just to
>>> get started.
>>>
>>> Here are some docs, but I don't know how useful they really are.
>>>
>>> The other thing is that this is really the wrong newsgroup for this
>>> kind of questions. Try to find a more general newsgroup. There's
>>> also the irc.mozilla.org #developers channel.
>>>
>>> - Aaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> R Cook wrote:
>>>> I'm new to Mozilla, Firefox, even open source development.
>>>> I gather a page may be considered a collection of DOMs; I'm figure the
>>>> browser has to somehow take these DOMs and translate them into pixels
>>>> on the screen.  I want to learn about the steps it goes through to
>>>> make that translation.
>>>> Does it create an overall data structure that is then written to the
>>>> screen?  Is that data structure common to the various platforms of
>>>> firefox, or is it specific to different versions, or different
>>>> devices?
>>>>
>>>> I've found and read some documentation on how to build an extension,
>>>> etc., but I haven't yet found writings on this kind of overall
>>>> architectural structure.  Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> rc
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>
>
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Re: [Bulk] Re: full page zoom

Jonathan Chetwynd
Aaron,

I'm not that good at written descriptions, as you've understood, and  
pointed out.
please try the link, and zoom, you'll see how it works, and perhaps  
tell me :-)
http://www.peepo.co.uk/mybbc/index.html

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd



On 22 Aug 2006, at 18:42, Aaron Leventhal wrote:


 > css & html allows a single slide to cover whole zoomed documents
What does that mean?

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Re: [Bulk] Re: full page zoom

Aaron Leventhal-3
Finally had a chance to look at this. Very nice. What's the magic that
makes the images zoom, and not just the text, when I hit Ctrl+plus?

- Aaron

Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:

> Aaron,
>
> I'm not that good at written descriptions, as you've understood, and
> pointed out.
> please try the link, and zoom, you'll see how it works, and perhaps
> tell me :-)
> http://www.peepo.co.uk/mybbc/index.html
>
> cheers
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
>
>
>
> On 22 Aug 2006, at 18:42, Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>
>
> > css & html allows a single slide to cover whole zoomed documents
> What does that mean?
>
>

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