So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/10/2013 6:00 PM, »Q« wrote:

> > A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
> > feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of
> > restoring it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to
> > copy the entire directory back to where it care from, using
> > whatever tools the OS provides.  There's no way they'd make that
> > part of some UI designed to help people run old versions, though.
>
> I am pretty sure that users of nightly versions would LOVE a 'revert'
> button.  Some nightlies are nightmarelies?

There was some talk about that too, in the same thread.  I'm sorry I
didn't save references.  It was sometime in the last couple of months,
on the developer ml.



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Re: OT: New Seekers (tm)

J. P. Gilliver (John)
In reply to this post by Sailfish-4
In message <[hidden email]>, Sailfish
<[hidden email]> writes:
>My bloviated meandering follows what J. P. Gilliver (John) graced us
>with on 8/10/2013 3:27 AM:
>
>[snip /]
>>  * (tm) The New Seekers ...
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMqYaBbRTo
>
>John, are you part of The New Seekers?
>
No (-:! A _little_ before my time, or at least, I wasn't old enough
then. I quite like some of their stuff, though - and "I wanna go back"
seemed very appropriate in discussions of new software versions (-:!

(I like the original Seekers more, even though they are all about 70:
get well Judith.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You know what they say. In London you're never more than ten feet away from a
lying politician." The Downing Street rat, "quoted" by Rod Liddle in Radio
Times, 12-18 February 2011
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

J. P. Gilliver (John)
In reply to this post by WaltS-2
In message <[hidden email]>, WaltS
<[hidden email]> writes:
[]
>Have no fear. Somebody is already working on an extension to "Go Back",

Have you any links?

>and Australis may take longer to be released than originally planned.

But will come eventually, it seems.
>
>If you are really curious you could install the UX branch, and have a
>look. I highly recommend a separate profile.
>
><http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-ux/>

To be honest, I'm _not_ that curious - my curiosity is limited to "lots
of people seem to be worried by this but it looks like it's going to be
foisted on us: therefore I suppose I ought to find out what it's about".
But I really don't _want_ to (-:!
>
>If not I can take some screenshots of my install on Linux, and post
>them later, or look at the somewhat outdated Win7 design specs.

Thanks for your kind offer: I guess we _would_ be interested, though my
understanding is that Australis represents a change in underlying
philosophy, which screenshots won't show too well. But they might give
us _some_ idea.
>
><http://people.mozilla.com/~shorlander/files/australis-design-specs/aust
>ralis-design-specs-windows7-aero.html>
>
>The Add-on bar is removed, and the only problems I have encountered so

Hmm. I just tried turning off and back on the add-on bar, as I wasn't
sure whether I use it: it seemed to make what I think of the Status bar
disappear and reappear. But then I have the S4E addon.

>far is the ABP and Forecastfox icons that were previously shown in the
>Add-on bar are not appearing in the new Navigation bar location. Not
>sure if that is the extension not being updated or Firefox.
>
>You also have to enable the Menu Bar to get to some of the menu items
>not in the new AppMenu button like Exit or Quit, Email Link and others.

I have it enabled anyway - I'm a 9x/XP user, so I am used to having menu
bars on things.

So from what you've described so far (provided S4E keeps working),
Australis doesn't _sound_ too terrible. But as I've said, I get the
feeling that it isn't just screen appearance, it's a whole new way of
thinking, which some have implied involves less configurability for the
user. We'll just have to see (and hope the "go back" extension - or
whatever - is working by then).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You know what they say. In London you're never more than ten feet away from a
lying politician." The Downing Street rat, "quoted" by Rod Liddle in Radio
Times, 12-18 February 2011
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> How much does it confuse the old user?

I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
twenty years.
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

WaltS-2
On 08/10/2013 08:05 PM, »Q« wrote:
> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> How much does it confuse the old user?
>
> I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
> enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
> twenty years.
>

I learned more about it today than I ever knew while creating the
screenshots for my other post.

Shoot! Does that make me the resident expert?

--
"Let's concentrate on the issues, not the emotions." - Bob from
fedoraforums.org
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
WaltS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/10/2013 08:05 PM, »Q« wrote:

> > I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
> > enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
> > twenty years.
>
> I learned more about it today than I ever knew while creating the
> screenshots for my other post.
>
> Shoot! Does that make me the resident expert?

Yup.  Now it's your job to answer all questions about Australis.  Have
fun!  ;)

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

WaltS-2
In reply to this post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On 08/10/2013 08:02 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <[hidden email]>, WaltS
> <[hidden email]> writes:
> []
>> Have no fear. Somebody is already working on an extension to "Go Back",
>
> Have you any links?

No link yet. Like Australis it is a work in progress.

>
>> and Australis may take longer to be released than originally planned.
>
> But will come eventually, it seems.

Most assuredly.

<snip>

--
"Let's concentrate on the issues, not the emotions." - Bob from
fedoraforums.org
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-2
On 8/10/2013 6:30 PM, WaltS wrote:

> On 08/10/2013 07:12 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 8/10/2013 6:00 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>> In <news:[hidden email]>,
>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So could someone explain what Australis actually means?
>>>
>>> Not me, but here's a download link:
>>> <https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-ux/>
>>>
>>>> The last but is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I wonder if the developers
>>>> could consider providing some sort of snapshot capability whenever
>>>> there's a change (in the release channel) - i. e. a way of freezing a
>>>> copy of how a user has things set up now, but letting them upgrade -
>>>> but with the option of undoing, time-limited to three weeks if you
>>>> think that's a good idea, if they don't like the new version?
>>>
>>> A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
>>> feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of restoring
>>> it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to copy the entire
>>> directory back to where it care from, using whatever tools the OS
>>> provides.  There's no way they'd make that part of some UI designed to
>>> help people run old versions, though.
>>>
>> I am pretty sure that users of nightly versions would LOVE a 'revert'
>> button.  Some nightlies are nightmarelies?
>>
>
>
> Nightly and Aurora are "experimental and may be unstable".
>
Yep, what better reason for a 'revert button', or better  revert program!

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 8/10/2013 6:32 PM, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The problem is that everyone seems to be going to the minimalist UI.
>> Maybe it is time someone bucked the trend, and maintained a UI that a
>> person can USE rather than just looking at whatever the website wants
>> to push onto them,
>
> People use browsers so that they can play its buttons, they them to
> view whatever is available at web sites.  For people who do want a
> busybox UI, there's SeaMonkey.
>
>> full of popups, slide ups, outs, and downs, and toolbars no one
>> wants on top, and/or on bottom.  It's enough to drive one away from
>> the internet, almost.
>
> Sounds awful.  I'm glad I don't have any of those problems.
>
Then I guess you don't do news sites.
They are the worst, or you turn off javascript, which so emasculates the
internet that it isn't worth the trouble.

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 8/10/2013 6:41 PM, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 8/10/2013 6:00 PM, »Q« wrote:
>
>>> A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
>>> feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of
>>> restoring it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to
>>> copy the entire directory back to where it care from, using
>>> whatever tools the OS provides.  There's no way they'd make that
>>> part of some UI designed to help people run old versions, though.
>>
>> I am pretty sure that users of nightly versions would LOVE a 'revert'
>> button.  Some nightlies are nightmarelies?
>
> There was some talk about that too, in the same thread.  I'm sorry I
> didn't save references.  It was sometime in the last couple of months,
> on the developer ml.
>
>
>
It really shouldn't be too hard to save the profile each time an update
is done, and then write a simple program to copy back a backup profile
to the active profile folder.  Nothing really complicated.

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 8/10/2013 7:05 PM, »Q« wrote:
> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> How much does it confuse the old user?
>
> I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
> enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
> twenty years.
>
I mean OLD old users.  Grin.
If you ain't 70, you don't qualify.

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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

WaltS-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 08/10/2013 08:53 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 8/10/2013 6:30 PM, WaltS wrote:
>> On 08/10/2013 07:12 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 8/10/2013 6:00 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>>> In <news:[hidden email]>,
>>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So could someone explain what Australis actually means?
>>>>
>>>> Not me, but here's a download link:
>>>> <https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-ux/>
>>>>
>>>>> The last but is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I wonder if the developers
>>>>> could consider providing some sort of snapshot capability whenever
>>>>> there's a change (in the release channel) - i. e. a way of freezing a
>>>>> copy of how a user has things set up now, but letting them upgrade -
>>>>> but with the option of undoing, time-limited to three weeks if you
>>>>> think that's a good idea, if they don't like the new version?
>>>>
>>>> A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
>>>> feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of restoring
>>>> it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to copy the entire
>>>> directory back to where it care from, using whatever tools the OS
>>>> provides.  There's no way they'd make that part of some UI designed to
>>>> help people run old versions, though.
>>>>
>>> I am pretty sure that users of nightly versions would LOVE a 'revert'
>>> button.  Some nightlies are nightmarelies?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nightly and Aurora are "experimental and may be unstable".
>>
> Yep, what better reason for a 'revert button', or better  revert program!
>


Revert to what, the previous Nightly?

Use a separate profile. If you muck it up, temporarily make it your
default browser, and Help > Troubleshooting Information > Reset Nightly.

Don't forget to change the default browser back to whatever you had set
as the default.

--
"Let's concentrate on the issues, not the emotions." - Bob from
fedoraforums.org
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/10/2013 6:32 PM, »Q« wrote:
> > In <news:[hidden email]>,
> > Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> The problem is that everyone seems to be going to the minimalist
> >> UI. Maybe it is time someone bucked the trend, and maintained a UI
> >> that a person can USE rather than just looking at whatever the
> >> website wants to push onto them,
> >
> > People use browsers so that they can play its buttons, they them to
> > view whatever is available at web sites.  For people who do want a
> > busybox UI, there's SeaMonkey.
> >
> >> full of popups, slide ups, outs, and downs, and toolbars no one
> >> wants on top, and/or on bottom.  It's enough to drive one away from
> >> the internet, almost.
> >
> > Sounds awful.  I'm glad I don't have any of those problems.
> >
> Then I guess you don't do news sites.
> They are the worst, or you turn off javascript, which so emasculates
> the internet that it isn't worth the trouble.

A significant amount of my web time is spent reading news sites.
Occasionally a JavaScript popup or slider gets through my filters, but
not often.  The one at NPR.org has been bugging me lately, but I don't
go there often enough to put in the effort to block it.

But how did we get completely orthogonal to the browser's UI?  Web sites
are going to "push" the same stuff at you no matter how many
checkboxes and toolbars you have.



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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

PhillipJones-2
In reply to this post by »Q«
»Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> So could someone explain what Australis actually means?
>
> Not me, but here's a download link:
> <https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-ux/>
>
>> The last but is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I wonder if the developers
>> could consider providing some sort of snapshot capability whenever
>> there's a change (in the release channel) - i. e. a way of freezing a
>> copy of how a user has things set up now, but letting them upgrade -
>> but with the option of undoing, time-limited to three weeks if you
>> think that's a good idea, if they don't like the new version?
>
> A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
> feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of restoring
> it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to copy the entire
> directory back to where it care from, using whatever tools the OS
> provides.  There's no way they'd make that part of some UI designed to
> help people run old versions, though.
>
  On a Mac you can do so with Time Machine. IF something bad in
SeaMonkey or Format I go into the Profile then turn on time machine.
then I go back in time just an hour befor the Happening. Then I choose
all but the Mail & News Folders (directories). Then hit restore and
choose replace. (Greatest thing since Sliced bread ever computer
Windows, Linux, Unix, and Mac should have time machine or something
similar.) I have my TimeMachine Backup on a Separate Hard Drive.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.      "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

PhillipJones-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-2
WaltS wrote:

> On 08/10/2013 02:29 PM, PhillipJones wrote:
>> Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Felixx graced us with on 8/10/2013
>>> 10:34 AM:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>
>>>> It's probably the end of Firefox... Actually version 22 is probably
>>>> the last one for me. I'm refusing the 23 version because of the tab
>>>> thingie. Nothing they're doing is for the better. Every new version
>>>> only creates more problems. Enough is enough.
>
>>> If you're looking for a browser where the UI remains the same (mostly)
>>> and the rendering engine stays current, your only other alternative is
>>> Seamonkey. Every other browser, including IE, are in constinual change
>>> mode.
>>>
>>
>> I hope the SeaMonkey People don't lose there mind and go this route.
>>
>> Great Moogly-Oogly! what a disaster.
>>
>
>
> I know! Talk about disasters, cars don't have fins anymore.
>
> What is your issue with Australis?
>
> I'm sure you have investigated it thoroughly before forming an opinion.
>
>
I've looked at the previews here and a straight copy of Chrome. In fact
it so close looking Google could sue the pants off of Mozilla.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.      "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

PhillipJones-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 8/10/2013 12:30 PM, PhillipJones wrote:
>>>
>>> * (tm) The New Seekers ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMqYaBbRTo
>> I've said time an again that Mozilla want to copy as closely as possible
>> Google Chrome. look like my predictions are coming true. The two worse
>> web browser around pre usability stand point is Chrome and Safari.
>>
> Add Opera's latest effort to that list.
> The problem is that everyone seems to be going to the minimalist UI.
> Maybe it is time someone bucked the trend, and maintained a UI that a
> person can USE, rather than just looking at whatever the website wants
> to push onto them, full of popups, slide ups, outs, and downs, and
> toolbars no one wants on top, and/or on bottom.  It's enough to drive
> one away from the internet, almost.
>
Agreed.

--
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http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: OT: New Seekers (tm)

Sailfish-4
In reply to this post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
My bloviated meandering follows what J. P. Gilliver (John) graced us
with on 8/10/2013 4:48 PM:

> In message <[hidden email]>, Sailfish
> <[hidden email]> writes:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what J. P. Gilliver (John) graced us
>> with on 8/10/2013 3:27 AM:
>>
>> [snip /]
>>>  * (tm) The New Seekers ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHMqYaBbRTo
>>
>> John, are you part of The New Seekers?
>>
> No (-:! A _little_ before my time, or at least, I wasn't old enough
> then. I quite like some of their stuff, though - and "I wanna go back"
> seemed very appropriate in discussions of new software versions (-:!
>
> (I like the original Seekers more, even though they are all about 70:
> get well Judith.)

Agreed.

--
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Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

Sailfish-4
In reply to this post by »Q«
My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 8/10/2013
5:24 PM:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> WaltS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 08/10/2013 08:05 PM, »Q« wrote:
>
>>> I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
>>> enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
>>> twenty years.
>> I learned more about it today than I ever knew while creating the
>> screenshots for my other post.
>>
>> Shoot! Does that make me the resident expert?
>
> Yup.  Now it's your job to answer all questions about Australis.  Have
> fun!  ;)
>
Well, to really buff-up his bona fides he needs to be a citizen of
Australis, it's right next to Peruvia :-)

--
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Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

PhillipJones-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-2
WaltS wrote:

> On 08/10/2013 07:12 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 8/10/2013 6:00 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>> In <news:[hidden email]>,
>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So could someone explain what Australis actually means?
>>>
>>> Not me, but here's a download link:
>>> <https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-ux/>
>>>
>>>> The last but is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I wonder if the developers
>>>> could consider providing some sort of snapshot capability whenever
>>>> there's a change (in the release channel) - i. e. a way of freezing a
>>>> copy of how a user has things set up now, but letting them upgrade -
>>>> but with the option of undoing, time-limited to three weeks if you
>>>> think that's a good idea, if they don't like the new version?
>>>
>>> A copy of the profile is made when a user uses the "Reset Firefox"
>>> feature, and I've seen some talk about making the process of restoring
>>> it easier.  Currently, to restore it, the user has to copy the entire
>>> directory back to where it care from, using whatever tools the OS
>>> provides.  There's no way they'd make that part of some UI designed to
>>> help people run old versions, though.
>>>
>> I am pretty sure that users of nightly versions would LOVE a 'revert'
>> button.  Some nightlies are nightmarelies?
>>
>
>
> Nightly and Aurora are "experimental and may be unstable".
>
  I have been testing Aurora but if they are going to use Austrailis
thing I can't afford to test as Its been using my FireFox profile. And
drastic changes such as these would screw up my FF profile. I can't
afford that.  If I could figure out how to make a copy of my FF Profile
and then Point Aurora to that Copy I might continue with that testing.
No more.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.      "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: So what _is_ this Australis thing? (And, how about a "freeze/undo" option?)

PhillipJones-2
In reply to this post by »Q«
»Q« wrote:
> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> How much does it confuse the old user?
>
> I don't find it the least bit confusing, but maybe I'm not an old
> enough user.  I've only been using web browsers for slightly under
> twenty years.
>
You are young and can easily be corrupted :-)
I have been using the Internet since the days of the Mac SE/30 and
RedRyder/WhiteKnight (Bulletin Boards) having to pay for Long Distance
calls.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.      "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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