Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

WaltS48-8
On 1/14/18 6:47 AM, Balaco ocalaB wrote:

> Em 14-01-2018 03:13, Hartdonor escreveu:
> ...
>> This is of parochial interest to Brazilian citizens who support Lula
>> and that's it. This is far too narrow an audience to make it
>> appropriate for discussion here.
>>
>
> You are wrong! Clearly wrong.
>
> Four Latin ex-presidents signed the manifesto, as I have said here
> three days ago: (Argentinean) Cristina Kirchner, (Uruguayan) José
> Mujica, (Ecuadorian) Rafael Correa, (Colombian) Ernesto Samper.


They follow this newsgroup and that is what motivated them to sign the
petition?

The power of this group is amazing!

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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Balaco ocalaB
Em 14-01-2018 12:23, WaltS48 escreveu:

> On 1/14/18 6:47 AM, Balaco ocalaB wrote:
>> Em 14-01-2018 03:13, Hartdonor escreveu:
>> ...
>>> This is of parochial interest to Brazilian citizens who support Lula
>>> and that's it. This is far too narrow an audience to make it
>>> appropriate for discussion here.
>>>
>>
>> You are wrong! Clearly wrong.
>>
>> Four Latin ex-presidents signed the manifesto, as I have said here
>> three days ago: (Argentinean) Cristina Kirchner, (Uruguayan) José
>> Mujica, (Ecuadorian) Rafael Correa, (Colombian) Ernesto Samper.
>
>
> They follow this newsgroup and that is what motivated them to sign the
> petition?
>
> The power of this group is amazing!
>
>

That is not my point. The fact is that people from all over the world
may sign, and have been signing the manifesto. And I believe that some
people that read here have signed it, with possibly a few more people
that only got to know the manifesto from those coleagues we have.
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

WaltS48-8
On 1/14/18 9:36 AM, Balaco ocalaB wrote:

> Em 14-01-2018 12:23, WaltS48 escreveu:
>> On 1/14/18 6:47 AM, Balaco ocalaB wrote:
>>> Em 14-01-2018 03:13, Hartdonor escreveu:
>>> ...
>>>> This is of parochial interest to Brazilian citizens who support Lula
>>>> and that's it. This is far too narrow an audience to make it
>>>> appropriate for discussion here.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are wrong! Clearly wrong.
>>>
>>> Four Latin ex-presidents signed the manifesto, as I have said here
>>> three days ago: (Argentinean) Cristina Kirchner, (Uruguayan) José
>>> Mujica, (Ecuadorian) Rafael Correa, (Colombian) Ernesto Samper.
>>
>>
>> They follow this newsgroup and that is what motivated them to sign the
>> petition?
>>
>> The power of this group is amazing!
>>
>>
>
> That is not my point. The fact is that people from all over the world
> may sign, and have been signing the manifesto. And I believe that some
> people that read here have signed it, with possibly a few more people
> that only got to know the manifesto from those coleagues we have.


Well, thanks for the noise.

Now back to our regularly scheduled subject.

Anyone follow Snooker? Awesome first match between Mark Selby and Mark
Williams going on now in the Masters Snooker 2018.

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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Ed Mullen-10
In reply to this post by Hartdonor
On 1/14/2018 at 12:13 AM, Hartdonor created this epitome of digital genius:

> On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:04:42 -0000, in mozilla.general, Jim Fisher wrote:
>> the __majority__ of us who disagree.
>
> Majority? LOL! Did you take a poll?
>
> I agree with the people who are against this sort of thread. Off-topic
> stuff in this group is generally about things that are of interest to the
> broader Mozilla community. This is of parochial interest to Brazilian
> citizens who support Lula and that's it. This is far too narrow an
> audience to make it appropriate for discussion here.
>
> Peddle your local politics on a local group, where people are far more
> likely to care. Mozilla's servers, in a general purpose Mozilla
> discussion group, are a bad choice for this sort of content.
>

One of this group's intended reasons for existence is for "off-topic"
discussions, with the hope of keeping them off the actual support
groups.  Here's my previous citation again:

<https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/forums/>

Scroll down to Project Wide Forums.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
An oyster is a fish built like a nut.
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Ed Mullen-10
In reply to this post by Ray_Net
On 1/14/2018 at 2:08 AM, Ray_Net created this epitome of digital genius:

> Jim Fisher wrote on 14-01-18 00:04:
>> On 13 Jan 2018 at 17:05, Ray_Net wrote:
>>
>>> Jim Fisher wrote on 13-01-18 02:37:
>>>> On 11 Jan 2018 at 22:02, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Balaco ocalaB wrote on 11-01-18 21:45:
>>>>>> About that petition, a recently published story¹ is:
>>>>> We don't care here.
>>>>> Please get out  !
>>>> Why should he/she? This group is for general discussion, and is used
>>>> for that
>>>> by most people. I don't remember hearing complaints about politics
>>>> when the
>>>> USA presidential election was coming up and candidates were being
>>>> criticised
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Fisher
>>>>
>>> The newsgroup is labelled MOZILLA.general ..
>>> So it pertain to a general discussions about MOZILLA products.
>>> That's my opinion.
>> You're entitled to your opinion,
> Ed Mullen have given this official explanation:
> "all aspects of all the things that we're doing here at mozilla.org"
> So my opinion is correct !

But you left off:

"(high traffic; often off-topic)"

which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail but a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Dang, that was fun."
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

The Real Bev
On 01/14/2018 07:00 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>
> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.

Which is the way it should be.  Read or not read, post or not post,
whine or not whine...

--
Cheers, Bev
    "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
     is not thus handicapped."
                 -- Elbert Hubbard, American author
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Hartmut Figge
The Real Bev:
>On 01/14/2018 07:00 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

>> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>>
>> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
>> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>
>Which is the way it should be.  Read or not read, post or not post,
>whine or not whine...

Whine? Why not. Some sympathy would be fine. :) Builds of SM-Trunk are
not usable since 9 days now. No content in MailNews or Sidebar/Browser.

Well? *g*

Hartmut
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Balaco ocalaB
In reply to this post by Balaco ocalaB
Em 09-01-2018 19:54, Balaco ocalaB escreveu:

>> The attempt to schedule the date of the trial of Lula's appeal for
>> the 24th of January is empty of legality. It is purely an act of
>> persecution of the most popular Brazilian leader. The recourse to
>> resort to spurious expedient to intervene in the electoral process
>> happens because the coup of Dilma's Impeachment did not generate a
>> political regime of lasting conservative stability.
>>
>> The strategic plan underway, following Dilma's removal from the
>> presidency, cuts workers' rights, threatens public pensions,
>> privatizes Petrobras, Eletrobras and public banks, and abandons the
>> active and proud foreign policy.
>>
>> The labor reform and the limit of expenditure did not attract the
>> promised foreign investments, which could support the campaign for a
>> government aligned with neoliberalism in 2018. In the face of
>> unpopularity, these sectors have failed to build, so far, a viable
>> candidate for president.
>>
>> Lula grows in the polls in all scenarios in the first and the second
>> rounds, and can even win in the first round. The scenario of
>> overwhelming victory of Lula would mean the failure of the coup and
>> would enable the opening of a new political cycle.
>>
>> Hence, anything goes in the plot to prevent Lula's candidature:
>> condemnation in the Porto Alegre court, the creation of a
>> semi-parliament and the postponement of the elections. None of the
>> listed actions is out of question. They build up the evil arsenal of
>> the political forces that do not value democracy.
>>
>> A persecution entirely political, which will only be defeated on the
>> political ground. More than a tactical or electoral problem, the
>> victory or defeat in this fight will have strategic and long-term
>> consequences.
>>
>> Brazil is experiencing a time of crossroads: either restore social
>> rights and the democratic rule of law or be defeated and watch the
>> final implementation of a capitalist society without regulations,
>> based on the super-exploitation of workers.
>>
>> This type of society requires a State reinforced with instruments of
>> exception to suppress universities, intellectuals, workers, women,
>> youth, the poor, the black people. Ultimately, all the exploited and
>> oppressed that rise up against the new system.
>>
>> Thus, the issue of the persecution of Lula does not refer only to the
>> Workers Party and the left, but to all Brazilian citizens. As never
>> before in our generation of fighters, what is at stake is the future
>> of democracy.
>
> You may sign (or reread) the petition of this manifesto here:
>
> https://www.change.org/p/sociedade-brasileira-em-defesa-do-direito-de-lula-ser-candidato-a-presidente-do-brasil?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition
>
>
> If you decide to do that, I thank you very much.
>
>

By now, the manifesto has been translated into 8 languages. (:

Ricardo Lagos' message, which has been published in Spanish at

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1556101661125495&id=1

as I have said before, was also translated to English, and I copy that
for you here:

******
In defense of Lula da Silva

A group of political, social and cultural personalities, both from Latin
America and from other countries, specially from Europe, has reacted
when faced with the intention of realizing in record time the second
instance judgement against Lula da Silva, to prevent [him] becoming
presidential candidate [in Brasil's 2018 elections].

This, more than a judgement, seem an act of political persecution. Lula
was and still is a fundamental character for the hopes of Brazilians and
a leader in the world scenary.

There are millions of men and women in this country that have no doubt
in how their lives changed when Lula was president. They know their
country had advances and an important progresses, making economic growth
and development with social justice, a possible duality to achieve as a
whole. Of course his predecessor, president Cardoso [FHC] had started
this path that Lula followed.

I believe that we are faced with a political persecution that will only
be defeated in political environment. More than a tactical matter or
electoral theme, the victory or defeat in this fight will have long term
strategical consequences.

What is at stake in Brasil is the future of democracy. A democracy where
millions that overcame poverty do not return to it, a democracy where
obscure maneuvers and schemes to suffocate popular will are not used, a
democracy from which should be possible to speak legitimately with the
rest of the world to address with conviction and leadership a more fair
society in XXI century.

The social changes emerging in many democracies require work, from
leaderships like Lula's, to be developed.
******

(the above ended Ricardo Lagos' words translation)

=
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        quem você é?
   1.b. Do you want to make a comment, but do not want to
        show who you are?

   2.a. Você pode fazê-lo aqui:
   2.b. You may do it here:

   https://queroouvir.sarahah.com/
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by Hartmut Figge
On 01/14/2018 09:07 AM, Hartmut Figge wrote:

> The Real Bev:
>>On 01/14/2018 07:00 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
>>> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>>>
>>> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
>>> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>>
>>Which is the way it should be.  Read or not read, post or not post,
>>whine or not whine...
>
> Whine? Why not. Some sympathy would be fine. :) Builds of SM-Trunk are
> not usable since 9 days now. No content in MailNews or Sidebar/Browser.
>
> Well? *g*

Your story has touched my heart. Please accept these pixels as a token
of my support.

--
Cheers, Bev
    It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Jim Fisher
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 14 Jan 2018 at 9:23, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 1/14/18 6:47 AM, Balaco ocalaB wrote:
> > Em 14-01-2018 03:13, Hartdonor escreveu:
> > ...
> >> This is of parochial interest to Brazilian citizens who support Lula
> >> and that's it. This is far too narrow an audience to make it
> >> appropriate for discussion here.
> >>
> >
> > You are wrong! Clearly wrong.
> >
> > Four Latin ex-presidents signed the manifesto, as I have said here
> > three days ago: (Argentinean) Cristina Kirchner, (Uruguayan) José
> > Mujica, (Ecuadorian) Rafael Correa, (Colombian) Ernesto Samper.
>
>
> They follow this newsgroup and that is what motivated them to sign the
> petition?
>
> The power of this group is amazing!

I follow it. I signed the petition. I live in UK, which, last time I looked,
was quite a distance from Brazil.

Jim Fisher
--
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating)
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com  which doesn't spy on you



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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Jim Fisher
In reply to this post by Hartdonor
On 13 Jan 2018 at 23:13, Hartdonor wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:04:42 -0000, in mozilla.general, Jim Fisher wrote:
> >the __majority__ of us who disagree.
>
> Majority? LOL! Did you take a poll?

No, of course not. Just going by the proportion of non-technical stuff that
I've seen on here previously, from most contributors, including political stuff
of relevance to only one country (or less).

The rest of your message has been answered by others, probably better than I
could, so I won't waste your time or mine on doing so again.

Jim Fisher

--
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating)
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com  which doesn't spy on you



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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Ray_Net
In reply to this post by Ed Mullen-10
Ed Mullen wrote on 14-01-18 16:00:

> On 1/14/2018 at 2:08 AM, Ray_Net created this epitome of digital genius:
>> Jim Fisher wrote on 14-01-18 00:04:
>>> On 13 Jan 2018 at 17:05, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jim Fisher wrote on 13-01-18 02:37:
>>>>> On 11 Jan 2018 at 22:02, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Balaco ocalaB wrote on 11-01-18 21:45:
>>>>>>> About that petition, a recently published story¹ is:
>>>>>> We don't care here.
>>>>>> Please get out  !
>>>>> Why should he/she? This group is for general discussion, and is
>>>>> used for that
>>>>> by most people. I don't remember hearing complaints about politics
>>>>> when the
>>>>> USA presidential election was coming up and candidates were being
>>>>> criticised
>>>>> here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Fisher
>>>>>
>>>> The newsgroup is labelled MOZILLA.general ..
>>>> So it pertain to a general discussions about MOZILLA products.
>>>> That's my opinion.
>>> You're entitled to your opinion,
>> Ed Mullen have given this official explanation:
>> "all aspects of all the things that we're doing here at mozilla.org"
>> So my opinion is correct !
>
> But you left off:
>
> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>
> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>
>
So this group looks like junk or bin :-(
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

The Real Bev
On 01/14/2018 12:23 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote on 14-01-18 16:00:
>>
>> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>>
>> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
>> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>>
> So this group looks like junk or bin :-(

Not at all, just chat around the water cooler/coffee machine.

--
Cheers, Bev
   I remember when everybody posted to Usenet with their real,
   deliverable e-mail address. Of all the sins committed by the
   spammers, destroying the viability of the open Internet was the worst.
                (Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, news.admin.net-abuse.email)

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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

Ray_Net
The Real Bev wrote on 14-01-18 22:01:

> On 01/14/2018 12:23 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
>> Ed Mullen wrote on 14-01-18 16:00:
>>>
>>> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>>>
>>> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être is
>>> for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>>>
>> So this group looks like junk or bin :-(
>
> Not at all, just chat around the water cooler/coffee machine.
>
There is a bin near the coffee machine to receive the little plastic
spoons :-)
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Re: Sign something important: Manifesto Election without Lula is fraud

WaltS48-7
In reply to this post by Ray_Net
On 1/14/2018 3:23 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

> Ed Mullen wrote on 14-01-18 16:00:
>> On 1/14/2018 at 2:08 AM, Ray_Net created this epitome of digital genius:
>>> Jim Fisher wrote on 14-01-18 00:04:
>>>> On 13 Jan 2018 at 17:05, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jim Fisher wrote on 13-01-18 02:37:
>>>>>> On 11 Jan 2018 at 22:02, Ray_Net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Balaco ocalaB wrote on 11-01-18 21:45:
>>>>>>>> About that petition, a recently published story¹ is:
>>>>>>> We don't care here.
>>>>>>> Please get out  !
>>>>>> Why should he/she? This group is for general discussion, and is
>>>>>> used for that
>>>>>> by most people. I don't remember hearing complaints about
>>>>>> politics when the
>>>>>> USA presidential election was coming up and candidates were being
>>>>>> criticised
>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim Fisher
>>>>>>
>>>>> The newsgroup is labelled MOZILLA.general ..
>>>>> So it pertain to a general discussions about MOZILLA products.
>>>>> That's my opinion.
>>>> You're entitled to your opinion,
>>> Ed Mullen have given this official explanation:
>>> "all aspects of all the things that we're doing here at mozilla.org"
>>> So my opinion is correct !
>>
>> But you left off:
>>
>> "(high traffic; often off-topic)"
>>
>> which was my intent to show that part of this group's raison d'être
>> is for off-topic discussion, including non-Mozilla discussions.
>>
>>
> So this group looks like junk or bin :-(

Filters Ray, filters.

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