Schneier on impending "security disaster"

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Schneier on impending "security disaster"

»Q«
<http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>

  If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
  hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.

tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
were there would be a lot of obstacles.

It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
there are enough to build a router.


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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Sailfish-4
My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014 8:38 AM:

> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>
>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>
> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>
> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
> there are enough to build a router.
>
A couple of things I got from the article.

One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to faulty
embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features

[excerpt quote=\"
A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
this exploit.
\" /]

The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet friendly.

--
Sailfish
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

RAV-2
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:

> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>
>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>
> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>
> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
> there are enough to build a router.
>
>
Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
date.  Thanks.
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 1/8/2014 10:38 AM, »Q« wrote:

> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>
>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>
> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>
> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
> there are enough to build a router.
>
>
Strange.  I installed an update to my Netgear router just last week.  I
suspect it is more the commercial concerns that will drag their feet.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-4
On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014 8:38
> AM:
>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>
>>
>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>
>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>
>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>> there are enough to build a router.
>>
> A couple of things I got from the article.
>
> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to faulty
> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
> this exploit.
> \" /]
>
> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet friendly.
>
I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
see any value for me in this.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by RAV-2
On 1/8/2014 2:12 PM, Rav wrote:

> On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:
>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>
>>
>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>
>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>
>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>> there are enough to build a router.
>>
>>
> Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
> date.  Thanks.
Did that last week, mainly because the speeds on my Android tablet
varied from 30mbps to 1mbps.  Annoying.  Not sure if the upgrade, or a
power cycle, or the fact that my wife took down all the Christmas
decorations did the trick, as they all happened on the same day.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Sailfish-4
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
1/8/2014 12:59 PM:

> On 1/8/2014 2:12 PM, Rav wrote:
>> On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>
>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>
>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>
>>>
>> Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
>> date.  Thanks.
> Did that last week, mainly because the speeds on my Android tablet
> varied from 30mbps to 1mbps.  Annoying.  Not sure if the upgrade, or a
> power cycle, or the fact that my wife took down all the Christmas
> decorations did the trick, as they all happened on the same day.
>
Did you happen to note the date on the latest update?

--
Sailfish
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
On 1/8/2014 3:14 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 1/8/2014 12:59 PM:
>> On 1/8/2014 2:12 PM, Rav wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>
>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>
>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
>>> date.  Thanks.
>> Did that last week, mainly because the speeds on my Android tablet
>> varied from 30mbps to 1mbps.  Annoying.  Not sure if the upgrade, or a
>> power cycle, or the fact that my wife took down all the Christmas
>> decorations did the trick, as they all happened on the same day.
>>
> Did you happen to note the date on the latest update?
>
08/02/13

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Sailfish-4
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
1/8/2014 5:47 PM:

> On 1/8/2014 3:14 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 1/8/2014 12:59 PM:
>>> On 1/8/2014 2:12 PM, Rav wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>
>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
>>>> date.  Thanks.
>>> Did that last week, mainly because the speeds on my Android tablet
>>> varied from 30mbps to 1mbps.  Annoying.  Not sure if the upgrade, or a
>>> power cycle, or the fact that my wife took down all the Christmas
>>> decorations did the trick, as they all happened on the same day.
>>>
>> Did you happen to note the date on the latest update?
>>
> 08/02/13
>
That's fairly current, is it a relatively new router model?

--
Sailfish
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

goodwin-8
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 01/08/2014 08:38 AM, »Q« wrote:

>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.

the sky is falling - where is the king?
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-4
On 1/8/2014 8:28 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 1/8/2014 5:47 PM:
>> On 1/8/2014 3:14 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 1/8/2014 12:59 PM:
>>>> On 1/8/2014 2:12 PM, Rav wrote:
>>>>> On 1/8/2014 11:38 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than
>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Your post reminded me to upgrade my routers firmware, which was out of
>>>>> date.  Thanks.
>>>> Did that last week, mainly because the speeds on my Android tablet
>>>> varied from 30mbps to 1mbps.  Annoying.  Not sure if the upgrade, or a
>>>> power cycle, or the fact that my wife took down all the Christmas
>>>> decorations did the trick, as they all happened on the same day.
>>>>
>>> Did you happen to note the date on the latest update?
>>>
>> 08/02/13
>>
> That's fairly current, is it a relatively new router model?
>
Yes.  Not the latest ac type as none of my devices are equipped for it,
but I bought it in November, I believe.  WNR2000V4.  Only the first
update to the firmware.  I get transfers to my laptop at up to
4MB/second.  I suspect that is more a limitation of the old laptop.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014 8:38
>> AM:
>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>
>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>
>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>
>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>
>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to faulty
>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>
>> [excerpt quote=\"
>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
>> this exploit.
>> \" /]
>>
>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>> friendly.
>>
> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
> see any value for me in this.

But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or juice!! ;-P

--
Daniel

Seasons Greetings to one and all!!

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:26.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/26.0 SeaMonkey/2.23 Build identifier: 20131203183810

or

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:

> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014 8:38
>>> AM:
>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>
>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>
>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>
>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>
>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to faulty
>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
>>> this exploit.
>>> \" /]
>>>
>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>> friendly.
>>>
>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>> see any value for me in this.
>
> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or juice!! ;-P
>
Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

WaltS48
On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>> 8:38
>>>> AM:
>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>>
>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>
>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>
>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>
>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>> faulty
>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>
>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
>>>> this exploit.
>>>> \" /]
>>>>
>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>> friendly.
>>>>
>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>> see any value for me in this.
>>
>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>> juice!! ;-P
>>
> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>


It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
extremely hot weather.

Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.

I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
with eraser. :)

--
GO SAINTS!
Saints:26 Eagles:24
Saint:? Seahawks:?
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
On 1/9/2014 12:06 PM, WaltS wrote:

> On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>>> 8:38
>>>>> AM:
>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>>
>>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure,
>>>>> the
>>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e.,
>>>>> the
>>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>>> faulty
>>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>>
>>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain
>>>>> vulnerable to
>>>>> this exploit.
>>>>> \" /]
>>>>>
>>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists
>>>>> within
>>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>>> friendly.
>>>>>
>>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>>> see any value for me in this.
>>>
>>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>>> juice!! ;-P
>>>
>> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
>> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
>> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
>> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
>> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>>
>
>
> It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
> all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
> delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
> extremely hot weather.
>
> Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.
>
> I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
> with eraser. :)
>
I got this mental picture of a dozen guys in brown uniforms deicing
drones before filling their baskets with products.  Grin.
BTW, the lowest price is not always what I buy in the way of produce.
Imagine what you would get!

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ed Mullen-7
In reply to this post by WaltS48
WaltS wrote:

> On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>>> 8:38
>>>>> AM:
>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>
>>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>>
>>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure,
>>>>> the
>>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e.,
>>>>> the
>>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>>> faulty
>>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>>
>>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain
>>>>> vulnerable to
>>>>> this exploit.
>>>>> \" /]
>>>>>
>>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists
>>>>> within
>>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>>> friendly.
>>>>>
>>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>>> see any value for me in this.
>>>
>>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>>> juice!! ;-P
>>>
>> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
>> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
>> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
>> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
>> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>>
>
>
> It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
> all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
> delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
> extremely hot weather.
>
> Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.
>
> I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
> with eraser. :)
>

I have the Publix supermarket app on my smart phone.  I sit at my
computer, go to the Publix site and fill out my grocery list and tell it
what store I'll go to.  I can print the list from the PC and it is
automatically ordered by aisle for that particular store.  Or I can just
use my phone and follow the list.  Pretty handy if you're doing a large
list.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
All that glitters has a high refractive index.
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

WaltS48
On 01/09/2014 02:27 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

> WaltS wrote:
>> On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>>>> 8:38
>>>>>> AM:
>>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than
>>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to
>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e.,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>>>> faulty
>>>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain
>>>>>> vulnerable to
>>>>>> this exploit.
>>>>>> \" /]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>>>> friendly.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>>>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>>>> see any value for me in this.
>>>>
>>>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>>>> juice!! ;-P
>>>>
>>> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
>>> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
>>> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
>>> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
>>> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
>> all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
>> delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
>> extremely hot weather.
>>
>> Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.
>>
>> I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
>> with eraser. :)
>>
>
> I have the Publix supermarket app on my smart phone.  I sit at my
> computer, go to the Publix site and fill out my grocery list and tell it
> what store I'll go to.  I can print the list from the PC and it is
> automatically ordered by aisle for that particular store.  Or I can just
> use my phone and follow the list.  Pretty handy if you're doing a large
> list.
>
>


I could probably do the same for my supermarket on the PC. Never tried it.


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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

F1Com
In reply to this post by Daniel-257
On 1/9/2014 2:14 AM On a whim, Daniel pounded out on the keyboard

> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014 8:38
>>> AM:
>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>    hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than computers.
>>>>
>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>
>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to see if
>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>
>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>
>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure, the
>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e., the
>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to faulty
>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain vulnerable to
>>> this exploit.
>>> \" /]
>>>
>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists within
>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>> friendly.
>>>
>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>> see any value for me in this.
>
> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or juice!! ;-P
>

Well, if could give us a live feed of what is IN the frig, then we could
see for ourselves what we need when we're at the store!




--
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Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Ed Mullen-7
On 1/9/2014 1:27 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

> WaltS wrote:
>> On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>>>> 8:38
>>>>>> AM:
>>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than
>>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even if it
>>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to
>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e.,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>>>> faulty
>>>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a stop-gap
>>>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT, e.g.:
>>>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server was
>>>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched within a
>>>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain
>>>>>> vulnerable to
>>>>>> this exploit.
>>>>>> \" /]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than having my
>>>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>>>> friendly.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my connection is
>>>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>>>> see any value for me in this.
>>>>
>>>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>>>> juice!! ;-P
>>>>
>>> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
>>> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
>>> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
>>> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
>>> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>>>
>>
>>
>> It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
>> all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
>> delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
>> extremely hot weather.
>>
>> Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.
>>
>> I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
>> with eraser. :)
>>
>
> I have the Publix supermarket app on my smart phone.  I sit at my
> computer, go to the Publix site and fill out my grocery list and tell it
> what store I'll go to.  I can print the list from the PC and it is
> automatically ordered by aisle for that particular store.  Or I can just
> use my phone and follow the list.  Pretty handy if you're doing a large
> list.
>
>
Nice.  Why don't stores around here do that?  Answer, they WANT you to
hunt for what you need!  You might see an 'impulse buy' along the way.
Bottom line, increase sales, never mind customer convenience.

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Re: Schneier on impending "security disaster"

Sailfish-4
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
1/9/2014 12:29 PM:

> On 1/9/2014 1:27 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> WaltS wrote:
>>> On 01/09/2014 12:55 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 1/9/2014 4:14 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>>>> On 9/01/2014 7:50 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/8/2014 12:07 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what »Q« graced us with on 1/8/2014
>>>>>>> 8:38
>>>>>>> AM:
>>>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/01/theres-no-good-way-to-patch-the-internet-of-things-and-thats-a-huge-problem/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   If we don’t solve this soon, we’re in for a security disaster as
>>>>>>>>   hackers figure out that it’s easier to hack routers than
>>>>>>>> computers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> tl;dr:  Consumer-grade routers are using old, insecure firmware and
>>>>>>>> software.  Updating it isn't on anybody's to-do list, and even
>>>>>>>> if it
>>>>>>>> were there would be a lot of obstacles.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It may be time for me to dig around in the box of old parts to
>>>>>>>> see if
>>>>>>>> there are enough to build a router.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A couple of things I got from the article.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One, while non-patched older routers present an immediate exposure,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> root of the problem continues to exist in even newer routers, i.e.,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> manufacturers don't put a lot of effort into providing patches to
>>>>>>> faulty
>>>>>>> embedded chips so even buying new routers may, at best, be a
>>>>>>> stop-gap
>>>>>>> measure (planned obsolescence, anyone?). There may be some remedies
>>>>>>> available if one is prepared to root their router using DD-WRT,
>>>>>>> e.g.:
>>>>>>> REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD-WRT#Features
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [excerpt quote=\"
>>>>>>> A remote command execution vulnerability in DD-WRT's HTTPd server
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> found by a Bulgarian hacker on 21 July 2009, and was patched
>>>>>>> within a
>>>>>>> few hours after being documented on milw0rm.[8] However, all prior
>>>>>>> DD-WRT versions (before build 12533 of v24 preSP2) remain
>>>>>>> vulnerable to
>>>>>>> this exploit.
>>>>>>> \" /]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other, more pervasive issue, is that the same problem exists
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> the whole "Internet of things" movement. Honest, other than
>>>>>>> having my
>>>>>>> clocks being reset automatically for DST, I don't think I'd buy into
>>>>>>> connecting my house and/or appliances to make them more internet
>>>>>>> friendly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose that, given I have cable TV/phone/internet, my
>>>>>> connection is
>>>>>> pretty much established, but I don't intend to add my range,
>>>>>> refrigerator, or my dishwasher to the internet connection, as I can't
>>>>>> see any value for me in this.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, surely, Ron, you *need* to know when you're out of milk or
>>>>> juice!! ;-P
>>>>>
>>>> Well, I do that the old way, I look in the refrigerator.  Just
>>>> yesterday, I used the last tomato, so this morning, I went out and
>>>> bought some tomatoes.  Smart, huh?
>>>> When I was younger, I wouldn't have had to put the tomatoes on my
>>>> shopping list on my iPhone, though, I would have remembered it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It would be cooler to have the refrigerator connected. Send a request to
>>> all the grocery stores for tomatoes, have the lowest price tomatoes
>>> delivered by an Amazon drone and not have to go out in polar vortex, or
>>> extremely hot weather.
>>>
>>> Would/could cabinets be connected? I need coffee.
>>>
>>> I still use pen and paper for my shopping lists. Should use a pencil
>>> with eraser. :)
>>
>> I have the Publix supermarket app on my smart phone.  I sit at my
>> computer, go to the Publix site and fill out my grocery list and tell it
>> what store I'll go to.  I can print the list from the PC and it is
>> automatically ordered by aisle for that particular store.  Or I can just
>> use my phone and follow the list.  Pretty handy if you're doing a large
>> list.
>>
> Nice.  Why don't stores around here do that?  Answer, they WANT you to
> hunt for what you need!  You might see an 'impulse buy' along the way.
> Bottom line, increase sales, never mind customer convenience.
>
Some of the larger chains provide an App. In my neck of the woods it's
Vons (which is owned by Safeway.)

--
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Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/lcey2ex
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