Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

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Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

Dan Zulla
No progress on W3C list. Can you be of any use?

Dan

Am 11. März 2017 um 20:58 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]>:

Maybe it is, but that's very off topic for this list.

-Manish Goregaokar

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
I understand that, yet, disregarding the dust - and with dust, I mean oldness - currently happening on web standards and current browser --

We haven't quite reached a level of low-to-high bandwidth streaming anything-onto-any device mobile/desktop 3G/Fiber/Any Bandwidth GPU rendered quality web/3D gaming/etc. stuff over the Web yet. Sure, WebGL/3D Canvas/ThreeJS exists, but...

Relevant features such as background-transparency for things like filter() and things like random(), along with other things, seem increasingly hard to implement, along with lengthy discussion such as this one, and C++ stuff seems increasingly hard to modify/extend/ask questions about without getting on mailing lists.

Mozilla financially supported scholarships and venture capital / seed funding / project funding budgets seem like zero to non-existent, and stuff - everything - is slow-to-boringly non existent..

Maybe time for a change of course at Mozilla? And with change-of-course I mean an entirely new web browsing experience and approach, very different from anything near to HTTP, HTML, CSS and Javascript. 

Dan





Am 11. März 2017 um 18:47 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]>:

> Also -moz features, such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.

We don't want to add more of these. If we were to, they would either be something being used internally in XUL (unlikely for this feature), or features that are on track to standardization. Though I don't think we create new -moz prefixes anymore, and instead pref-gate things.

As far as I can tell the only way to get this feature in is to get it specced with tentative approval from a standards body.

-Manish Goregaokar

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
Messaged to the list. Needs approval. Would like to continue here with Firefox anyways. Maybe you know someone who has written significant portions of code of CSS3 animations?

I like Mozilla style and what has been accomplished. Also -moz features, such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.

I was close to extracting Pixels.




Am 10. März 2017 um 06:48 schrieb Daniel Holbert <[hidden email]>:

On 03/09/2017 09:43 PM, Dan Zulla wrote:
Add CSS3 random() before like June?

Still not clear. You want to "add" it...
- as a polyfill/demo-JS-implementation? That's up to you & whoever else
you can get interested in helping. :)

- ...as a CSS feature specced by the CSSWG? You'd want to propose it on
the working group mailing list, which is:
[hidden email]
Archives at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/

~Daniel
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Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

Jet Villegas-2
Dan:

You've received plenty of feedback that your proposal isn't likely to
advance as a Web standard, and Firefox isn't where such proposals become
browser features.

If you're not able to participate in a respectful manner, you'll need to
move along.

--Jet

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:50 Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:

> No progress on W3C list. Can you be of any use?
>
> Dan
>
> Am 11. März 2017 um 20:58 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]
> >:
>
> Maybe it is, but that's very off topic for this list.
>
> -Manish Goregaokar
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I understand that, yet, disregarding the dust - and with dust, I mean
> oldness - currently happening on web standards and current browser --
>
> We haven't quite reached a level of low-to-high bandwidth streaming
> anything-onto-any device mobile/desktop 3G/Fiber/Any Bandwidth GPU rendered
> quality web/3D gaming/etc. stuff over the Web yet. Sure, WebGL/3D
> Canvas/ThreeJS exists, but...
>
> Relevant features such as background-transparency for things like filter()
> and things like random(), along with other things, seem increasingly hard
> to implement, along with lengthy discussion such as this one, and C++ stuff
> seems increasingly hard to modify/extend/ask questions about without
> getting on mailing lists.
>
> Mozilla financially supported scholarships and venture capital / seed
> funding / project funding budgets seem like zero to non-existent, and stuff
> - everything - is slow-to-boringly non existent..
>
> Maybe time for a change of course at Mozilla? And with change-of-course I
> mean an entirely new web browsing experience and approach, very different
> from anything near to HTTP, HTML, CSS and Javascript.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 11. März 2017 um 18:47 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]
> >:
>
> > Also -moz features, such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.
>
> We don't want to add more of these. If we were to, they would either be
> something being used internally in XUL (unlikely for this feature), or
> features that are on track to standardization. Though I don't think we
> create new -moz prefixes anymore, and instead pref-gate things.
>
> As far as I can tell the only way to get this feature in is to get it
> specced with tentative approval from a standards body.
>
> -Manish Goregaokar
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Messaged to the list. Needs approval. Would like to continue here with
> Firefox anyways. Maybe you know someone who has written significant
> portions of code of CSS3 animations?
>
> I like Mozilla style and what has been accomplished. Also -moz features,
> such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.
>
> I was close to extracting Pixels.
>
>
>
>
> Am 10. März 2017 um 06:48 schrieb Daniel Holbert <[hidden email]>:
>
> On 03/09/2017 09:43 PM, Dan Zulla wrote:
> Add CSS3 random() before like June?
>
> Still not clear. You want to "add" it...
> - as a polyfill/demo-JS-implementation? That's up to you & whoever else
> you can get interested in helping. :)
>
> - ...as a CSS feature specced by the CSSWG? You'd want to propose it on
> the working group mailing list, which is:
> [hidden email]
> Archives at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/
>
> ~Daniel
> _______________________________________________
> dev-tech-layout mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-layout
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-tech-layout mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-layout
>
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Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

Dan Zulla
In reply to this post by Dan Zulla
You misinterpreted my email, and you're simply wrong. I said "Can you be of any use" as in: Can you be of any use to get the thread going on the W3C list, which I have referenced before, after Daniel Holbert recommended it.

Also, Firefox is a place where such proposals become browsers features, when somebody starts to implement them. Which I can do, if I start to modify a whole bunch of CPP and .h files, which I have done.

Why, exactly, "Jet" (I-hope-you're-not-receiving-a-salary-from-Mozilla) do you think my proposal is not going to advance as a Web standard. Do you have a supervisor or manager at Mozilla, or something?

Dan Zulla. 

Am 26. März 2017 um 19:59 schrieb Jet Villegas <[hidden email]>:

Dan:

You've received plenty of feedback that your proposal isn't likely to advance as a Web standard, and Firefox isn't where such proposals become browser features.

If you're not able to participate in a respectful manner, you'll need to move along.

--Jet

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:50 Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
No progress on W3C list. Can you be of any use?

Dan

Am 11. März 2017 um 20:58 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]>:

Maybe it is, but that's very off topic for this list.

-Manish Goregaokar

On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
I understand that, yet, disregarding the dust - and with dust, I mean oldness - currently happening on web standards and current browser --

We haven't quite reached a level of low-to-high bandwidth streaming anything-onto-any device mobile/desktop 3G/Fiber/Any Bandwidth GPU rendered quality web/3D gaming/etc. stuff over the Web yet. Sure, WebGL/3D Canvas/ThreeJS exists, but...

Relevant features such as background-transparency for things like filter() and things like random(), along with other things, seem increasingly hard to implement, along with lengthy discussion such as this one, and C++ stuff seems increasingly hard to modify/extend/ask questions about without getting on mailing lists.

Mozilla financially supported scholarships and venture capital / seed funding / project funding budgets seem like zero to non-existent, and stuff - everything - is slow-to-boringly non existent..

Maybe time for a change of course at Mozilla? And with change-of-course I mean an entirely new web browsing experience and approach, very different from anything near to HTTP, HTML, CSS and Javascript. 

Dan





Am 11. März 2017 um 18:47 schrieb Manish Goregaokar <[hidden email]>:

> Also -moz features, such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.

We don't want to add more of these. If we were to, they would either be something being used internally in XUL (unlikely for this feature), or features that are on track to standardization. Though I don't think we create new -moz prefixes anymore, and instead pref-gate things.

As far as I can tell the only way to get this feature in is to get it specced with tentative approval from a standards body.

-Manish Goregaokar

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
Messaged to the list. Needs approval. Would like to continue here with Firefox anyways. Maybe you know someone who has written significant portions of code of CSS3 animations?

I like Mozilla style and what has been accomplished. Also -moz features, such as -moz-element, even if - security relevant.

I was close to extracting Pixels.




Am 10. März 2017 um 06:48 schrieb Daniel Holbert <[hidden email]>:

On 03/09/2017 09:43 PM, Dan Zulla wrote:
Add CSS3 random() before like June?

Still not clear. You want to "add" it...
- as a polyfill/demo-JS-implementation? That's up to you & whoever else
you can get interested in helping. :)

- ...as a CSS feature specced by the CSSWG? You'd want to propose it on
the working group mailing list, which is:
[hidden email]
Archives at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/

~Daniel
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Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

Daniel Holbert-3
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Can you be of any use to get the thread going on the W3C list, which I
> have referenced before, after Daniel Holbert recommended it.
>

Note that I also warned: "I'm skeptical that you'll have much luck there"
(at the CSSWG), and I laid out some reasons why your proposal doesn't
currently seem compelling to us & probably won't be compelling to the CSSWG
either (though the CSSWG is who you would need to convince if you really
wanted to see this as a CSS feature):
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.tech.layout/appreciate$20that$20intention%7Csort:relevance/mozilla.dev.tech.layout/iyiCsTzS6qc/TfCA3YEAEQAJ

Also, Firefox is a place where such proposals become browsers features,
> when somebody starts to implement them. Which I can do, if I start to
> modify a whole bunch of CPP and .h files, which I have done.
>

Firefox is open source, so of course you're welcome to experiment with
adding features in your local checkout & your own builds.

But Mozilla is under no obligation to accept patches (particularly for a
nonstandard CSS feature) as part of mainline Firefox. And we're unlikely to
do in this case, for the reasons that I already laid out in my message that
I linked above.

Why, exactly, "Jet" (I-hope-you're-not-receiving-a-salary-from-Mozilla) do
> you think my proposal is not going to advance as a Web standard. Do you
> have a supervisor or manager at Mozilla, or something?
>

This sort of tone is exactly what Jet was talking about, regarding
participating respectfully.  Please stop.

~Daniel
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Re: random() CSS3 - Wire Crypto.getRandomValues() into CSS - Similar to calc()

Daniel Holbert-3
On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Daniel Holbert <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Dan Zulla <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Can you be of any use to get the thread going on the W3C list, which I
>> have referenced before, after Daniel Holbert recommended it.
>>
>
> Note that I also warned: "I'm skeptical that you'll have much luck there"
> (at the CSSWG), and I laid out some reasons why your proposal doesn't
> currently seem compelling to us & probably won't be compelling to the CSSWG
> either (though the CSSWG is who you would need to convince if you really
> wanted to see this as a CSS feature):
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/mozilla.dev.
> tech.layout/appreciate$20that$20intention%7Csort:relevance/
> mozilla.dev.tech.layout/iyiCsTzS6qc/TfCA3YEAEQAJ
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#%21searchin/mozilla.dev.tech.layout/appreciate$20that$20intention%7Csort:relevance/mozilla.dev.tech.layout/iyiCsTzS6qc/TfCA3YEAEQAJ>
>

Sorry, that wasn't the right link. I meant to link to my prior response
here:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.dev.tech.layout/iyiCsTzS6qc/8arsasf7EAAJ
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