Re: http servers?

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Re: http servers?

squaredancer
On 11.12.2007 21:28, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
generate the following:? :

> On 12/11/2007 10:30 AM On a whim, John Liebson pounded out on the keyboard
>
>  
>> On 11/12/2007 11:04, orange kid wrote:
>>
>>    
>>>>> John Liebson wrote:
>>>>>          
>>>>>> Idea number two: Read this document
>>>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_webmail_with_your_email_client
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>> idea number twelve:  use proper punctuation, including at the end of
>>> your sentences.
>>>      
>> Yes: I hit the space bar, to move the about-to-be-entered period so that
>> the link would be correct, but never did get around to exercising my
>> finger on the period key, alas.
>>
>> On the other hand, you should use upper-case letters at the beginning of
>> sentences, period.
>>
>> Your sentence? Oh, perhaps twenty lashes with a wet noodle....
>>
>> (It is amazing how one can overlook such things. I wrote a fire-service
>> training manual a number of years ago, which was proof-read three times
>> by my wife (whose degrees are in the Classics, mine being in Medieval
>> Studies); the manual was submitted to a peer-review panel of six
>> members. The manual was published, was purchased, was used, but not
>> until several years after publication was one error pointed out to me by
>> one person, and that was the only time it has ever been shown to me. I,
>> however, did make an error that I caught just after going to press. The
>> morning that I submitted the manuscript, the name of a federal agency
>> was changed. I changed the name in perhaps three places in my document,
>> but only on one of two places on the same page, sigh. I think I was
>> rather anxious to send the document to my laser printer, as the output
>> was to be used to make paper printing plates, and overlooked that
>> obvious mistake.)
>>
>>    
>
> This is a support group John, not an English class.  I see you made an
> excuse for the error "orange kid" caught.  Your comments can easily be
> considered as OT, so when you're in the holier than thou mood, you
> should redirect them to mozilla.general.
>
> followup set to mozilla.general
>  
Terry - if you are not a member of the Moz-Project then you have no
right to be in the support groups (see gerv's and Chris I's posts in
"that other" thread)

reg
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Re: http servers?

Terry R.
On 12/11/2007 2:21 PM On a whim, squaredancer pounded out on the keyboard

> On 11.12.2007 21:28, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
> generate the following:? :
>> On 12/11/2007 10:30 AM On a whim, John Liebson pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>  
>>> On 11/12/2007 11:04, orange kid wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>>>> John Liebson wrote:
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>> Idea number two: Read this document
>>>>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_webmail_with_your_email_client
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>            
>>>> idea number twelve:  use proper punctuation, including at the end of
>>>> your sentences.
>>>>      
>>> Yes: I hit the space bar, to move the about-to-be-entered period so that
>>> the link would be correct, but never did get around to exercising my
>>> finger on the period key, alas.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, you should use upper-case letters at the beginning of
>>> sentences, period.
>>>
>>> Your sentence? Oh, perhaps twenty lashes with a wet noodle....
>>>
>>> (It is amazing how one can overlook such things. I wrote a fire-service
>>> training manual a number of years ago, which was proof-read three times
>>> by my wife (whose degrees are in the Classics, mine being in Medieval
>>> Studies); the manual was submitted to a peer-review panel of six
>>> members. The manual was published, was purchased, was used, but not
>>> until several years after publication was one error pointed out to me by
>>> one person, and that was the only time it has ever been shown to me. I,
>>> however, did make an error that I caught just after going to press. The
>>> morning that I submitted the manuscript, the name of a federal agency
>>> was changed. I changed the name in perhaps three places in my document,
>>> but only on one of two places on the same page, sigh. I think I was
>>> rather anxious to send the document to my laser printer, as the output
>>> was to be used to make paper printing plates, and overlooked that
>>> obvious mistake.)
>>>
>>>    
>> This is a support group John, not an English class.  I see you made an
>> excuse for the error "orange kid" caught.  Your comments can easily be
>> considered as OT, so when you're in the holier than thou mood, you
>> should redirect them to mozilla.general.
>>
>> followup set to mozilla.general
>>  
> Terry - if you are not a member of the Moz-Project then you have no
> right to be in the support groups (see gerv's and Chris I's posts in
> "that other" thread)
>
> reg

That can't be right reg.  Users who are asking assistance aren't part of
it.  And if JL is teaching English there, he can't be part of it... They
can always ban me I guess.  That will certainly set the record straight.

I've kind of given up on the whole thing.  If the powers that be want to
complain about all the free technical assistance all of us have been
providing since this server came online, all because we choose to talk
OT once in a while or post some HTML content in a test group, they can
have it.  Who knows what's next...

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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Re: http servers?

JoeS-3
Terry R. wrote:

> On 12/11/2007 2:21 PM On a whim, squaredancer pounded out on the keyboard
>
>> On 11.12.2007 21:28, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
>> generate the following:? :
>>> On 12/11/2007 10:30 AM On a whim, John Liebson pounded out on the
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>>  
>>>> On 11/12/2007 11:04, orange kid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>>>> John Liebson wrote:
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>> Idea number two: Read this document
>>>>>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_webmail_with_your_email_client
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>            
>>>>> idea number twelve:  use proper punctuation, including at the end
>>>>> of your sentences.
>>>>>      
>>>> Yes: I hit the space bar, to move the about-to-be-entered period so
>>>> that the link would be correct, but never did get around to
>>>> exercising my finger on the period key, alas.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, you should use upper-case letters at the
>>>> beginning of sentences, period.
>>>>
>>>> Your sentence? Oh, perhaps twenty lashes with a wet noodle....
>>>>
>>>> (It is amazing how one can overlook such things. I wrote a
>>>> fire-service training manual a number of years ago, which was
>>>> proof-read three times by my wife (whose degrees are in the
>>>> Classics, mine being in Medieval Studies); the manual was submitted
>>>> to a peer-review panel of six members. The manual was published, was
>>>> purchased, was used, but not until several years after publication
>>>> was one error pointed out to me by one person, and that was the only
>>>> time it has ever been shown to me. I, however, did make an error
>>>> that I caught just after going to press. The morning that I
>>>> submitted the manuscript, the name of a federal agency was changed.
>>>> I changed the name in perhaps three places in my document, but only
>>>> on one of two places on the same page, sigh. I think I was rather
>>>> anxious to send the document to my laser printer, as the output was
>>>> to be used to make paper printing plates, and overlooked that
>>>> obvious mistake.)
>>>>
>>>>    
>>> This is a support group John, not an English class.  I see you made
>>> an excuse for the error "orange kid" caught.  Your comments can
>>> easily be considered as OT, so when you're in the holier than thou
>>> mood, you should redirect them to mozilla.general.
>>>
>>> followup set to mozilla.general
>>>  
>> Terry - if you are not a member of the Moz-Project then you have no
>> right to be in the support groups (see gerv's and Chris I's posts in
>> "that other" thread)
>>
>> reg
>
> That can't be right reg.  Users who are asking assistance aren't part of
> it.  And if JL is teaching English there, he can't be part of it... They
> can always ban me I guess.  That will certainly set the record straight.
>
> I've kind of given up on the whole thing.  If the powers that be want to
> complain about all the free technical assistance all of us have been
> providing since this server came online, all because we choose to talk
> OT once in a while or post some HTML content in a test group, they can
> have it.  Who knows what's next...
>
I think you got that wrong Reg, I think the reference was to Peter specifically.
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Re: http servers?

Robert Blair-2
In reply to this post by squaredancer
On 12/11/2007 2:21 PM, squaredancer wrote:
 > Terry - if you are not a member of the Moz-Project then you have no
> right to be in the support groups (see gerv's and Chris I's posts in
> "that other" thread)
>
> reg

That can't possibly be correct.  I'm not a member of a project team, and
I often provide help at both
<news://news.mozilla.org:119/mozilla.support.seamonkey> and
<news://news.mozilla.org:119/mozilla.support.thunderbird>.

But I try to stick to the subject.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Go to Mozdev at <http://www.mozdev.org/> for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: http servers?

squaredancer
In reply to this post by squaredancer
On 11.12.2007 23:21, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  squaredancer
to generate the following:? :

> On 11.12.2007 21:28, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
> generate the following:? :
>  
>> On 12/11/2007 10:30 AM On a whim, John Liebson pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>  
>>    
>>> On 11/12/2007 11:04, orange kid wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>      
>>>>>> John Liebson wrote:
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> Idea number two: Read this document
>>>>>>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_webmail_with_your_email_client
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>              
>>>> idea number twelve:  use proper punctuation, including at the end of
>>>> your sentences.
>>>>      
>>>>        
>>> Yes: I hit the space bar, to move the about-to-be-entered period so that
>>> the link would be correct, but never did get around to exercising my
>>> finger on the period key, alas.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, you should use upper-case letters at the beginning of
>>> sentences, period.
>>>
>>> Your sentence? Oh, perhaps twenty lashes with a wet noodle....
>>>
>>> (It is amazing how one can overlook such things. I wrote a fire-service
>>> training manual a number of years ago, which was proof-read three times
>>> by my wife (whose degrees are in the Classics, mine being in Medieval
>>> Studies); the manual was submitted to a peer-review panel of six
>>> members. The manual was published, was purchased, was used, but not
>>> until several years after publication was one error pointed out to me by
>>> one person, and that was the only time it has ever been shown to me. I,
>>> however, did make an error that I caught just after going to press. The
>>> morning that I submitted the manuscript, the name of a federal agency
>>> was changed. I changed the name in perhaps three places in my document,
>>> but only on one of two places on the same page, sigh. I think I was
>>> rather anxious to send the document to my laser printer, as the output
>>> was to be used to make paper printing plates, and overlooked that
>>> obvious mistake.)
>>>
>>>    
>>>      
>> This is a support group John, not an English class.  I see you made an
>> excuse for the error "orange kid" caught.  Your comments can easily be
>> considered as OT, so when you're in the holier than thou mood, you
>> should redirect them to mozilla.general.
>>
>> followup set to mozilla.general
>>  
>>    
> Terry - if you are not a member of the Moz-Project then you have no
> right to be in the support groups (see gerv's and Chris I's posts in
> "that other" thread)
>
> reg
>  


For the "Doubting Thomases" (all from Moz.general - I didn't take the
time to run through all the other groups/threads)

gerv posted:
news://news.mozilla.org:119/[hidden email]
The Mozilla newsgroups are not anyone's personal playground or chatroom.
Their primary use is for getting project-related work done.

news://news.mozilla.org:119/[hidden email]
The Mozilla newsgroups are for the community of people working on the
Mozilla project.

news://news.mozilla.org:119/[hidden email]
People who offer support are people working on the project.

news://news.mozilla.org:119/[hidden email]
Support is when people inside the project help people outside the
project achieve things with the project's software.


I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that peer
supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!

reg
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Re: http servers?

Irwin Greenwald-4
On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that peer
> supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!

I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his sentence.
  It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying wolf ever since.

--
Irwin

Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.
Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page
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Re: http servers?

squaredancer
On 13.12.2007 02:45, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Irwin
Greenwald to generate the following:? :

> On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
>  
>> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that peer
>> supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!
>>    
>
> I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his sentence.
>   It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying wolf ever since.
>
>  

You think I didn't notice that "comma" ??  what wonders me is that Chris
hasn't demented - and anyway - gerv's intentions were not "extraneously"
comma'ed - they are definitive.  Support is by people working on the Moz
projects - others have no place there!

reg
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Re: http servers?

Irwin Greenwald-4
On 12/13/2007 4:28 AM, squaredancer wrote:

> On 13.12.2007 02:45, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Irwin
> Greenwald to generate the following:? :
>> On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
>>  
>>> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that peer
>>> supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!    
>>
>> I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his
>> sentence.   It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying
>> wolf ever since.
>>
>>  
>
> You think I didn't notice that "comma" ??  what wonders me is that Chris
> hasn't demented - and anyway - gerv's intentions were not "extraneously"
> comma'ed - they are definitive.  Support is by people working on the Moz
> projects - others have no place there!
>
> reg

But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on the
Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
newsgroups.

--
Irwin

Please do not use my email address to make requests for help.
Knowledge Base: http://kb.mozillazine.org/Main_Page
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Re: http servers?

Ron K.
Irwin Greenwald keyboarded, On 12/13/2007 9:32 PM :

> On 12/13/2007 4:28 AM, squaredancer wrote:
>> On 13.12.2007 02:45, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Irwin
>> Greenwald to generate the following:? :
>>> On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
>>>  
>>>> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that
>>>> peer supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!    
>>>
>>> I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his
>>> sentence.   It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying
>>> wolf ever since.
>>>
>>>  
>>
>> You think I didn't notice that "comma" ??  what wonders me is that
>> Chris hasn't demented - and anyway - gerv's intentions were not
>> "extraneously" comma'ed - they are definitive.  Support is by people
>> working on the Moz projects - others have no place there!
>>
>> reg
>
> But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on
> the Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
> newsgroups.
>

I agree with you Irwin, because one of Gerv's comments in rebuttal to my
first post in the Go Forward thread extended an  acknowledgment of the
QA role of MTMM personnel. Thus that reflects we are people working on
Mozilla.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported BSOD use by Major Error to msg the enemy!
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Re: http servers?

Gervase Markham
In reply to this post by Irwin Greenwald-4
Irwin Greenwald wrote:
> But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on the
> Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
> newsgroups.

Indeed. People providing useful support are definitely included in my
defintion of "people working on the Mozilla projects".

To think otherwise would be to think that I was suggesting that the code
developers should do all the support as well as write the code. Which
would be just silly :-)

Gerv
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Re: http servers?

PhillipJones
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Irwin Greenwald wrote:
>> But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on
>> the Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
>> newsgroups.
>
> Indeed. People providing useful support are definitely included in my
> defintion of "people working on the Mozilla projects".
>
> To think otherwise would be to think that I was suggesting that the code
> developers should do all the support as well as write the code. Which
> would be just silly :-)
>
> Gerv

Oh, let me ask a question. I am a *user* of Mozilla products. I even
post problems on Bugzilla That I run into on occasion and even
suggestion for improvements (not how they are written but how it works).
But I couldn't write a line of code. I even give tips so far as finding
Preferences settings for Mac people and others and other such.

Am a I considered by definition that works to support Mozilla products.

My understanding of of the user support groups being created in the
first place, is that developers were not interested in helping users
with support questions. There only desire was to just sit and create and
the user were just to muddle along as best they could. So O quit posting
in Developer groups and started posting in these users groups.

Am I considered as trying to help the cause of Mozilla Products? If not
Maybe I have no place in Mozilla and should just switch to something
else since it appears users are not welcome.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET                                http://www.vpea.org
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
                              http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm
Mac G4-500, OSX.3.9               Mac 17" PowerBook G4-1.67 Gb, OSX.4.10
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: http servers?

Gervase Markham
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
> Oh, let me ask a question. I am a *user* of Mozilla products. I even
> post problems on Bugzilla That I run into on occasion and even
> suggestion for improvements (not how they are written but how it works).

Then you are not _just_ a user.

> But I couldn't write a line of code. I even give tips so far as finding
> Preferences settings for Mac people and others and other such.
>
> Am a I considered by definition that works to support Mozilla products.

That sentence doesn't parse, but if you mean "am I a member of the
Mozilla community?", then the answer is Yes.

> Am I considered as trying to help the cause of Mozilla Products? If not
> Maybe I have no place in Mozilla and should just switch to something
> else since it appears users are not welcome.

Of course, in so far that you are providing good support to users, you
are helping and I welcome that.

However, the universe of people in mozilla.support.* is not, sadly,
divided into people who always help, and people who spend all their time
having off-topic discussions. If it were, life would be a lot simpler.

So, the more a particular person (not you specifically, anyone) does
anti-social things like bloating support newsgroups with off-topic
chatter, the more they force those who want the groups to provide a good
support experience to make a choice - does their positive contribution
outweigh their negative?

And even if the choice is made that the positive does outweigh the
negative, that doesn't mean that the negative behaviour is to be ignored.

IMO, anyone who has the best interests of the project at heart will want
to provide a good support experience in the mozilla.support.* groups -
and so will want to try their hardest to make them as welcoming and
accessible as possible, including limiting off-topic discussion.

Does that help answer your question?

Gerv
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Re: http servers?

Jay Garcia
On 17.12.2007 05:03, Gervase Markham wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> IMO, anyone who has the best interests of the project at heart will want
> to provide a good support experience in the mozilla.support.* groups -
> and so will want to try their hardest to make them as welcoming and
> accessible as possible, including limiting off-topic discussion.
>
> Does that help answer your question?
>
> Gerv

Posted and mailed.

Gerv, let's wrap this issue up with my suggestion to just leave things
as-is. You have a support group now in MTMM although it isn't in the
"hierarchy" but it works and works well. Users with issues are
accustomed to MTMM as the place to get answers and those that are not
are usually directed to MTMM from the various support groups here and in
other venues. So why fix it, it's not broken. Let the MTMM users choose
their own moderator and lets move on ..... ;-)


--
Jay Garcia - Netscape Champion
Marketing,Staff and Forums Consultant
Netscape Communications Corporation
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Re: http servers?

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>> Oh, let me ask a question. I am a *user* of Mozilla products. I even
>> post problems on Bugzilla That I run into on occasion and even
>> suggestion for improvements (not how they are written but how it works).
>
> Then you are not _just_ a user.
>
>> But I couldn't write a line of code. I even give tips so far as finding
>> Preferences settings for Mac people and others and other such.
>>
>> Am a I considered by definition that works to support Mozilla products.
>
> That sentence doesn't parse, but if you mean "am I a member of the
> Mozilla community?", then the answer is Yes.
>
>> Am I considered as trying to help the cause of Mozilla Products? If not
>> Maybe I have no place in Mozilla and should just switch to something
>> else since it appears users are not welcome.
>
> Of course, in so far that you are providing good support to users, you
> are helping and I welcome that.
>
> However, the universe of people in mozilla.support.* is not, sadly,
> divided into people who always help, and people who spend all their time
> having off-topic discussions. If it were, life would be a lot simpler.
>
> So, the more a particular person (not you specifically, anyone) does
> anti-social things like bloating support newsgroups with off-topic
> chatter, the more they force those who want the groups to provide a good
> support experience to make a choice - does their positive contribution
> outweigh their negative?
>
> And even if the choice is made that the positive does outweigh the
> negative, that doesn't mean that the negative behaviour is to be ignored.
>
> IMO, anyone who has the best interests of the project at heart will want
> to provide a good support experience in the mozilla.support.* groups -
> and so will want to try their hardest to make them as welcoming and
> accessible as possible, including limiting off-topic discussion.
>
> Does that help answer your question?
>
> Gerv

backtracking and flip-flopping again, aren't you? One minute
you say that those who are part of the community are those
working on the code and supplying bug reports.  And that
comment was directed right at me.  Now, you're saying if we
provide support to users, then we're part of the community.

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails to me may become public

Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
Newsgroups, as its not "contributing to the developement of
the Mozilla Project"

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
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Re: http servers?

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 17.12.2007 05:03, Gervase Markham wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> IMO, anyone who has the best interests of the project at heart will want
>> to provide a good support experience in the mozilla.support.* groups -
>> and so will want to try their hardest to make them as welcoming and
>> accessible as possible, including limiting off-topic discussion.
>>
>> Does that help answer your question?
>>
>> Gerv
>
> Posted and mailed.
>
> Gerv, let's wrap this issue up with my suggestion to just leave things
> as-is. You have a support group now in MTMM although it isn't in the
> "hierarchy" but it works and works well. Users with issues are
> accustomed to MTMM as the place to get answers and those that are not
> are usually directed to MTMM from the various support groups here and in
> other venues.

Geee-whiz, isn't that basically what I said.  Why create
another newsgroup? Just change the purpose of the current
one.  And I was told to hush up and let Gerv save face.

> So why fix it, it's not broken. Let the MTMM users choose
> their own moderator and lets move on ..... ;-)

because I'm still banned, a certain individual is still the
list owner and chief moderator

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Re: http servers?

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
In reply to this post by Irwin Greenwald-4
Irwin Greenwald wrote:

> On 12/13/2007 4:28 AM, squaredancer wrote:
>> On 13.12.2007 02:45, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Irwin
>> Greenwald to generate the following:? :
>>> On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
>>>  
>>>> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that peer
>>>> supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!    
>>> I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his
>>> sentence.   It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying
>>> wolf ever since.
>>>
>>>  
>> You think I didn't notice that "comma" ??  what wonders me is that Chris
>> hasn't demented - and anyway - gerv's intentions were not "extraneously"
>> comma'ed - they are definitive.  Support is by people working on the Moz
>> projects - others have no place there!
>>
>> reg
>
> But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on the
> Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
> newsgroups.
>

that might be your opinion of what he said, but others took
it that those working on the code or supplying bug reports
are the one who are part of the community.  And Chris in his
posting said user support are not warranted, errr rather wanted.

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Re: http servers?

orange kid
Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

> Irwin Greenwald wrote:
>> On 12/13/2007 4:28 AM, squaredancer wrote:
>>> On 13.12.2007 02:45, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Irwin
>>> Greenwald to generate the following:? :
>>>> On 12/12/2007 squaredancer wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> I also didn't look further for Chris' post, where he writes that
>>>>> peer supporters are NOT WANTED in Moz - but it's there, somewhere!    
>>>> I believe Chris added an extraneous comma near the end of his
>>>> sentence.   It totally distorted the meaning!  reg has been crying
>>>> wolf ever since.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>> You think I didn't notice that "comma" ??  what wonders me is that
>>> Chris hasn't demented - and anyway - gerv's intentions were not
>>> "extraneously" comma'ed - they are definitive.  Support is by people
>>> working on the Moz projects - others have no place there!
>>>
>>> reg
>>
>> But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working on
>> the Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the support
>> newsgroups.
>>
>
> that might be your opinion of what he said, but others took it that
> those working on the code or supplying bug reports are the one who are
> part of the community.  And Chris in his posting said user support are
> not warranted, errr rather wanted.
>
Why don't you just create a "pointless arguments with no practical
redeeming value for the community" forum, that would probably solve the
situation.

Or you could just ignore the threads you have no interest in and let
people who need help get help and let people who want to go OT just type
OT in the subject so you know not to read it or some-such.
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Re: http servers?

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Gervase Markham
Gervase Markham wrote:

> Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T wrote:
>> Oh, let me ask a question. I am a *user* of Mozilla products. I even
>> post problems on Bugzilla That I run into on occasion and even
>> suggestion for improvements (not how they are written but how it works).
>
> Then you are not _just_ a user.
>
>> But I couldn't write a line of code. I even give tips so far as
>> finding Preferences settings for Mac people and others and other such.
>>
>> Am a I considered by definition that works to support Mozilla products.
>
> That sentence doesn't parse, but if you mean "am I a member of the
> Mozilla community?", then the answer is Yes.
>
>> Am I considered as trying to help the cause of Mozilla Products? If
>> not Maybe I have no place in Mozilla and should just switch to
>> something else since it appears users are not welcome.
>
> Of course, in so far that you are providing good support to users, you
> are helping and I welcome that.
>
> However, the universe of people in mozilla.support.* is not, sadly,
> divided into people who always help, and people who spend all their time
> having off-topic discussions. If it were, life would be a lot simpler.
>
> So, the more a particular person (not you specifically, anyone) does
> anti-social things like bloating support newsgroups with off-topic
> chatter, the more they force those who want the groups to provide a good
> support experience to make a choice - does their positive contribution
> outweigh their negative?
>
> And even if the choice is made that the positive does outweigh the
> negative, that doesn't mean that the negative behaviour is to be ignored.
>
> IMO, anyone who has the best interests of the project at heart will want
> to provide a good support experience in the mozilla.support.* groups -
> and so will want to try their hardest to make them as welcoming and
> accessible as possible, including limiting off-topic discussion.
>
> Does that help answer your question?
>
> Gerv

It does somewhat. I've always felt somewhat as an outsider, because, I
can't write code, others feel I don't know what I am talking about. I've
never suggested how to write code. only reported problems , gave help
with operation of application that I know of; and suggested ideas to
improve how Mozilla products operate (never how to write it).

On occasion I have answered an off topic response. In most cases it was
to defend myself. Or defend a position. Sometimes my position is in the
minority, but I feel it must be voiced.

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If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!            mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: http servers?

»Q«
In reply to this post by orange kid
orange kid <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why don't you just create a "pointless arguments with no practical
> redeeming value for the community" forum, that would probably solve
> the situation.

Welcome to mozilla.general.  ;)
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Re: http servers?

Irwin Greenwald-4
In reply to this post by Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
On 12/17/2007 Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo wrote:

> > But I think Gerv had a rather broad definition of "people working
> on the Moz projects".  And it included those participating in the
> support newsgroups.
> >
>
> that might be your opinion of what he said, but others took it that
> those working on the code or supplying bug reports are the one who
> are part of the community.  And Chris in his posting said user
> support are not warranted, errr rather wanted.
>
Why do you insist on beating a dead horse?  Gerv agreed with my
statement several days ago!

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