Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction viakeyboard

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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction viakeyboard

mozilla accessibility
Marco wrote:
> possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.

How about a key to replay the message, and/or a key to actually focus you on
the alert so you can read it and/or dismiss/act on it.  You might even be
able to do something where you have a key which toggles your focus between
the current position, and the alert, so you won't loose your place.
What happens if another alert comes in while the current one is still
showing?

-- Rich

"Marco Zehe" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> Hi all,
>
> Regarding this exchange, I see a couple of different points.
> On the one hand, this alert system is unintrusive, since it does not
> take away focus from where you think you're going, in this case the new
> page. It is a different kind of thing from invoking the Find dialog,
> which you, the user, usually initiate. With these alerts, you never
> really know when they might come up. OK there's a pattern to it, mainly
> if you enter a new, or different, password on a form or when the popup
> blocker asks for your attention. A big competing browser uses an audio
> sound to indicate that its info bar just came up. Perhaps doing
> something like this in addition to presenting the alert would help, at
> least on Windows.
>
> On the other hand, braille-only users are a completely different story.
> if something doesn't gain focus, but happens somewhere on the screen, a
> braille-only user like a deaf-blind person will most likely miss this.
> JAWS has a feature called Flash messages (not to confuse with Adobe
> Flash), which come up for a period of time and interrupt the normal flow
> of information displayed. Alerts are not part of these Flash messages
> for some reason. Other screen readers deal with these alerts in a
> similar fashion.
>
> To improve things on our end, I would suggest we key into the sound
> system on Windows and other operating systems where sounds for certain
> events are available, and produce a sound whenever this alert comes up.
> Therefore, users get notified that there is something there that may
> require their attention. Thunderbird offers this as an option when
> indicating arrival of new mail, so this should not be toodifficult to do.
>
> As for dealing with alerts when they come up, I think screen reader
> vendors should take another look at how they implement alerts, and
> possibly readjust their end of the UI to make these alerts easier to
> find, possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.
>
> What do others think?
>
> Marco
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>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Caloggero" <[hidden email]>
Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.accessibility
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Victor Tsaran" <[hidden email]>; "Aaron Leventhal"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction
viakeyboard


What it you forget, or want to review, the alert message? Often happens if
your thinking about something else when the alert comes up, or your
attention is taken away by something else. When you come back to the page,
the message is there but you'll never know it.

I believe the message about remembering a password has a timeout, usually
too short to react before the message goes away.

Would it be possible to add an option to about:config (or perhaps to the
prefs UI (advanced/general) in the accessibility section) which specifies
whether to use alerts as they are now, or modal system altert dialogs (like
you get from the Javascript alert() function)?  This would seemingly solve a
lot of these issues, and if its published, screen reader users  will learn
how to enable it, or not, at their disgression.

Just my two cents.
-- Rich

"Aaron Leventhal" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:-[hidden email]...

> Victor,
>
> The screen reader should read the alert but not take focus away from
> what you are doing. Part of the alert is a button with an alt+key
> mnenonic. So you screen reader should read the shortcut key along with
> the alert, and thus provide you with the next steps to take action.
>
> Is that working for you as designed?
>
> - Aaron
>
> Victor Tsaran wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> Before I file a bug (if at all). I searched Bugzilla already but cannot
>> come up with anything that describes this problem (below).
>> None of the alerts in Firefox3 suchas:
>> 1. Would you like to remember password for this site... yes/no/never...
>> 2. Under Extensions->check for updates: "no updates were found" ...
>> close this message.
>> 3. And probably other ones.
>> When these alerts come up they do not gain focus and thus are not
>> immediately available to interact with via keyboard.
>> Is this by design since I have not seen this being addressed up until
>> now. Should I file a bug?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Vic
>
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>

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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction viakeyboard

Tom Brunet
Rich Caloggero wrote:

> Marco wrote:
>> possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.
>
> How about a key to replay the message, and/or a key to actually focus you on
> the alert so you can read it and/or dismiss/act on it.  You might even be
> able to do something where you have a key which toggles your focus between
> the current position, and the alert, so you won't loose your place.
> What happens if another alert comes in while the current one is still
> showing?
>
> -- Rich

Maybe add it to the F6 cycle?
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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction viakeyboard

Marco Zehe-3
In reply to this post by mozilla accessibility
Hi Rich,

Rich Caloggero wrote:
> Marco wrote:
>> possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.
>
> How about a key to replay the message, and/or a key to actually focus you on
> the alert so you can read it and/or dismiss/act on it.  You might even be

To replay would be a screen reader thing, but having a keystroke to
focus on the Alert would be good. If the alert is showing, and you go to
the address bar, then tab twice or three times, you can focus on the
buttons of the alert anyway, so this should not be too difficult. IE
also has a keystroke (ALT+N) to focus on the InfoBar once it becomes
visible.

Marco
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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interaction viakeyboard

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Tom Brunet
I like Tom's F6 suggestion.

- Aaron
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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interactionviakeyboard

mozilla accessibility
In reply to this post by Marco Zehe-3
OK, just tried FF again. I always forget about the f6 key. It now seems to
toggle you between the current focus on the page, and the location bar.
Maybe it could be modified to toggle you between an open message and your
current page focus if a message exists. If no message exists, it could act
as it does now.  My thinking is that we have multiple (and perhaps more
familiar) ways of getting to the address bar (alt+d works and is familiar
from IE, and control+l also works).

Does this make sense?
-- Rich

"Marco Zehe" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> Hi Rich,
>
> Rich Caloggero wrote:
>> Marco wrote:
>>> possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.
>>
>> How about a key to replay the message, and/or a key to actually focus you
>> on
>> the alert so you can read it and/or dismiss/act on it.  You might even be
>
> To replay would be a screen reader thing, but having a keystroke to
> focus on the Alert would be good. If the alert is showing, and you go to
> the address bar, then tab twice or three times, you can focus on the
> buttons of the alert anyway, so this should not be too difficult. IE
> also has a keystroke (ALT+N) to focus on the InfoBar once it becomes
> visible.
>
> Marco
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marco Zehe" <[hidden email]>
Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.accessibility
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper
interactionviakeyboard


Hi Rich,

Rich Caloggero wrote:
> Marco wrote:
>> possibly giving a keystroke to repeat the last alert message etc.
>
> How about a key to replay the message, and/or a key to actually focus you
> on
> the alert so you can read it and/or dismiss/act on it.  You might even be

To replay would be a screen reader thing, but having a keystroke to
focus on the Alert would be good. If the alert is showing, and you go to
the address bar, then tab twice or three times, you can focus on the
buttons of the alert anyway, so this should not be too difficult. IE
also has a keystroke (ALT+N) to focus on the InfoBar once it becomes
visible.

Marco
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Re: alerts in Firefox 3 do not gain focus for proper interactionviakeyboard

Tom Brunet
In reply to this post by Marco Zehe-3
If I recall correctly, F6 cycles through all browsers/frames, so it is
more than just a toggle between the current focus and the address bar.
People don't use frames on their pages as much these days, so maybe it's
not often useful in Firefox, but it's pretty handy in some other
xulrunner apps.  For example, in Thunderbird, F6 cycles between the
folders, the message list, and the message preview.  My point is, keep
other apps in mind so that they aren't broken.

I only suggested F6 because the alerts feel like a frame to me, albeit a
small one.  I'm not sure how easy it is, but if you could insert the
alert dialog just after the frame that brought it up, it would be the
first thing in the F6 order, but would also leave the current function
operable.  Note that Shift+F6 would bring you back to the webpage.

Tom

Rich Caloggero wrote:

> OK, just tried FF again. I always forget about the f6 key. It now seems to
> toggle you between the current focus on the page, and the location bar.
> Maybe it could be modified to toggle you between an open message and your
> current page focus if a message exists. If no message exists, it could act
> as it does now.  My thinking is that we have multiple (and perhaps more
> familiar) ways of getting to the address bar (alt+d works and is familiar
> from IE, and control+l also works).
>
> Does this make sense?
> -- Rich
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