Re: Windows Vista

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Re: Windows Vista

Ken Whiton
*-* On Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:38:09 -0500,
*-* In Article [hidden email],
*-* Michael Lueck wrote
*-* About Re: Windows Vista

> LOL!

> Made me dip into the archives and haul this memory out...

> http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/pub/EmperorsNewClothesAlaWin95.gif

      :-)  That reminds me of a tagline I used to see added to messages
occasionally in FidoNet echomail messages:

"Windows 95 = Mac '87"

to which I would mentally add

"= OS/2 '92" ;-)

           [Cross-posted and Followup set to mozilla.general]

                                          Ken Whiton

      FIDO: 1:132/152
InterNet: [hidden email] (remove the obvious to reply)
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Re: Windows Vista

ovidiu grigorescu
John Doue wrote:
> Still, it would be nice to know, from your point of view, what Vista
> brings (cosmetics aside) for the average user that XP-SP2 does not.
> Network setup admittedly.
virtual folders, searches, tags, things that you may love in TB, but on
os level
and no crash since 6months here (no blue..)
I'm just stating this with no love or hate, as the os+hardw are
secondary imo and determined by the soft/sistem you use most in a
productivity situation.
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Re: Windows Vista

Terry R.
The date and time was 1/4/2008 6:41 AM, and on a whim, ovidiu pounded
out on the keyboard:

> John Doue wrote:
>> Still, it would be nice to know, from your point of view, what Vista
>> brings (cosmetics aside) for the average user that XP-SP2 does not.
>> Network setup admittedly.
> virtual folders, searches, tags, things that you may love in TB, but on
> os level
> and no crash since 6months here (no blue..)
> I'm just stating this with no love or hate, as the os+hardw are
> secondary imo and determined by the soft/sistem you use most in a
> productivity situation.

Lack of productivity increases is why most businesses see no reason to
move to Vista from XP.  IMO, the ONLY reason Vista will gain ground is
because it comes pre-installed on new computers.  That will eventually
(after this year when online retailers stop selling XP) push it into the
mainstream.

--
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Re: Windows Vista

Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service
* Terry R. <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

> Lack of productivity increases is why most businesses see no reason to
> move to Vista from XP.  IMO, the ONLY reason Vista will gain ground is
> because it comes pre-installed on new computers.  

About two month ago, I purchased a new HP notebook, w/ Vista
preinstalled. IMHO, horrible. Evry little action required several
confirmations. The only nice thing was a beautiful looking
Solitaire - but actually playing didn't make much fun, disturbed
by lots of annoying confirm popups, even on such really harmless
things like changing the card theme ;-o

I can't speak about the real OS (aka kernel) stuff - maybe they
really did some improvements there - but the overall working
experience is, IMHO, much worse than on previous versions.
*If* someone really *needs* Windows, he should take w2k(3)-prof.
(actually, besides some special applications, I don't see the
need for Windows anymore).

To get back on-topic: I don't think, the main Mozilla code
should contain any special magic for Vista - simply isn't worth
messing up the code ;-o


cu
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Re: Windows Vista

squaredancer
In reply to this post by Terry R.
On 04.01.2008 15:49, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
generate the following:? :

> The date and time was 1/4/2008 6:41 AM, and on a whim, ovidiu pounded
> out on the keyboard:
>
>  
>> John Doue wrote:
>>    
>>> Still, it would be nice to know, from your point of view, what Vista
>>> brings (cosmetics aside) for the average user that XP-SP2 does not.
>>> Network setup admittedly.
>>>      
>> virtual folders, searches, tags, things that you may love in TB, but on
>> os level
>> and no crash since 6months here (no blue..)
>> I'm just stating this with no love or hate, as the os+hardw are
>> secondary imo and determined by the soft/sistem you use most in a
>> productivity situation.
>>    
>
> Lack of productivity increases is why most businesses see no reason to
> move to Vista from XP.  IMO, the ONLY reason Vista will gain ground is
> because it comes pre-installed on new computers.  That will eventually
> (after this year when online retailers stop selling XP) push it into the
> mainstream.
>
>  

..... and, according to a report I read here some weeks ago, M$ has
almost DOUBLED the retail price of XP against Vista.... now why would
they do that??

reg
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Re: Windows Vista

Terry R.
The date and time was 1/4/2008 7:35 AM, and on a whim, squaredancer
pounded out on the keyboard:

> On 04.01.2008 15:49, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
> generate the following:? :
>> The date and time was 1/4/2008 6:41 AM, and on a whim, ovidiu pounded
>> out on the keyboard:
>>
>>  
>>> John Doue wrote:
>>>    
>>>> Still, it would be nice to know, from your point of view, what Vista
>>>> brings (cosmetics aside) for the average user that XP-SP2 does not.
>>>> Network setup admittedly.
>>>>      
>>> virtual folders, searches, tags, things that you may love in TB, but on
>>> os level
>>> and no crash since 6months here (no blue..)
>>> I'm just stating this with no love or hate, as the os+hardw are
>>> secondary imo and determined by the soft/sistem you use most in a
>>> productivity situation.
>>>    
>> Lack of productivity increases is why most businesses see no reason to
>> move to Vista from XP.  IMO, the ONLY reason Vista will gain ground is
>> because it comes pre-installed on new computers.  That will eventually
>> (after this year when online retailers stop selling XP) push it into the
>> mainstream.
>>
>>  
>
> ..... and, according to a report I read here some weeks ago, M$ has
> almost DOUBLED the retail price of XP against Vista.... now why would
> they do that??
>
> reg

Gotta make all the profits you can, while you can.  Since they've now
stated that XP will be available to the end of the year (hopefully
they'll extend it for a 4th time), they're going to maximize their
returns.  And if they can't get people to move to Vista by choice, MS
will make XP's cost unreasonable.

Where is the competition when we need it?  Apple needs to allow built
boxes to run OS X and Linux needs to get with the times, realizing that
most computer users don't care for the command line.

--
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Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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Re: Windows Vista

ovidiu grigorescu
In reply to this post by Terry R.
Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> * Terry R. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>  
>> Lack of productivity increases is why most businesses see no reason to
>> move to Vista from XP.  IMO, the ONLY reason Vista will gain ground is
>> because it comes pre-installed on new computers.  
>>    
I don't see what major prod increases could expect, and no reason to fix
something that works. I got vista with a new one, for the old comps in
office and home have xp, and no problem. Though, I'll try some things
when get time with those very virtual folders and tags.. The thing is ,
my main soft/system is aimed towards ms now and will see where this
goes. They had to have a patch for vista and opengl is kinda slower.
We'll see, as the soft/sis is more important sometimes than os.
> About two month ago, I purchased a new HP notebook, w/ Vista
> preinstalled. IMHO, horrible. Evry little action required several
> confirmations. The only nice thing was a beautiful looking
> Solitaire - but actually playing didn't make much fun, disturbed
> by lots of annoying confirm popups, even on such really harmless
> things like changing the card theme ;-o
>  
I heard a lot of people getting sick cause of that continuous
confirmation thing, and is probably what makes most step back
I didn't get that sick, but there are settings and settings.
> I can't speak about the real OS (aka kernel) stuff - maybe they
> really did some improvements there - but the overall working
> experience is, IMHO, much worse than on previous versions.
> *If* someone really *needs* Windows, he should take w2k(3)-prof.
> (actually, besides some special applications, I don't see the
> need for Windows anymore).
>  
There may be some tech, not for me to speak. I'll usually go for the
prod app recommendation
> To get back on-topic: I don't think, the main Mozilla code
> should contain any special magic for Vista - simply isn't worth
> messing up the code ;-o
>  
that isn't necessary, it goes very well


but
this 'ms vs lin' or 'vista vs xp'  thing is mostly subjective in this
kind of discussions, leading to simply expressing some personal needs or
frustrations and usually getting far, far away from the point of the
initial topic/group. This is somehow harmfull imo to the support idea,
as the op will get answers like 'cofee is no good, get tea' when he ask
what kinda sugar goes with .. The point is that there are lots of
reasons someone uses a certain sistem and may only increase his
frustration/waste time with these.
Why is this such a sensitive area? I see this all the time going where
one compares with outlook or when vista pops up.
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Re: Windows Vista

Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service
* ovidiu <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

> The thing is, my main soft/system is aimed towards ms now and will
> see where this goes.

You might consider investigating an virtualized environment,
eg. via WINE. Many maintstream applications are already known
to work well on it.

BTW: I as system integrator, I'll see this from the service
delivery view: business users are just interested in getting
their work done - which platform they use, and often even
which applications, is not important. Anything that stops
or delays the business works cost pure money. So - for many
customers - soon becomes an very bad option ;-P

> > To get back on-topic: I don't think, the main Mozilla code
> > should contain any special magic for Vista - simply isn't worth
> > messing up the code ;-o
> >  
> that isn't necessary, it goes very well

Actually, there are lots of things, which - IMHO - should not
belong into the browser and better done outside (eg. profile data
like bookmark storage) - see my other post on this topic.


cu
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Re: Windows Vista

sean.bean
In reply to this post by Ken Whiton
Terry R. wrote:

> The date and time was 1/4/2008 9:34 AM, and on a whim,
> [hidden email] pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>> squaredancer wrote:
>>> On 03.01.2008 18:09, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  sean bean
>>> to generate the following:? :
>>>> Ron K. wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> [hidden email] keyboarded, On 12/30/2007 9:06 AM :
>>>>>  
>>>>>> Anyone having trouble with Vista? Mozilla won't spell check or
>>>>>> download the dictionaries. I'm just about 'over it'. Looking at other
>>>>>> email programs. Vista doesn't support Outlook and Live Mail is
>>>>>> horrible. Input welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rascal
>>>>>>        
>>>>> Vista Home Basic was pre4installed on the Compaq I purchased.  I
>>>>> have had no trouble with Fx or Tbird running.  Spellcheck works.  
>>>>> You have to run as Admin to do the installs. Over all I hate Vista
>>>>> and want Windows ME back, where I had more control over where files
>>>>> were stored and could delete trash without fighting the OS security
>>>>> beast.
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>> which is why i want my Win98SE back... i can't stand XP's pile of
>>>> users...
>>>>  
>>> pah - learner!  edit boot.ini  and kill all other users on a
>>> permanent basis!
>>>
>>> reg
>>
>> well gee thanks reg... nothing in boot.ini to edit...
>> users on the system isn't the problem... its finding files in the
>> morass of XP's layers of stealth users...
>> administrator/computerowner/deleted users/ that makes life harrowing...
>
> So use a common data location (or at least a common root folder) and
> change the default location of My Documents to it, i.e. d:\data.
>
> follow up set to mozilla.general
>

i guess i'm already a curmudgeon then...  i try to save things in always
the same place... then when i'm looking from a different computer... the
location names are changed... i just hate it...
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Re: Windows Vista

sean.bean
In reply to this post by Ken Whiton
DevilsPGD wrote:
> In message <[hidden email]>
> [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> well gee thanks reg... nothing in boot.ini to edit...
>> users on the system isn't the problem... its finding files in the morass
>> of XP's layers of stealth users... administrator/computerowner/deleted
>> users/ that makes life harrowing...
>
> User Manager isn't that hard to use...

yes i know... but in 98se i didn't have to ...
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Re: Windows Vista

squaredancer
In reply to this post by Ken Whiton
On 05.01.2008 23:06, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  sean bean to
generate the following:? :

> Terry R. wrote:
>  
>> The date and time was 1/4/2008 4:39 AM, and on a whim, squaredancer
>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>    
>>> On 04.01.2008 01:15, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
>>> generate the following:? :
>>>      
>>>> The date and time was 1/3/2008 9:09 AM, and on a whim, sean bean
>>>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>>>> Ron K. wrote:
>>>>>    
>>>>>          
>>>>>> [hidden email] keyboarded, On 12/30/2007 9:06 AM :
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> Anyone having trouble with Vista? Mozilla won't spell check or
>>>>>>> download the dictionaries. I'm just about 'over it'. Looking at
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> email programs. Vista doesn't support Outlook and Live Mail is
>>>>>>> horrible. Input welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rascal
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>> Vista Home Basic was pre4installed on the Compaq I purchased.  I
>>>>>> have had no trouble with Fx or Tbird running.  Spellcheck works.  
>>>>>> You have to run as Admin to do the installs. Over all I hate Vista
>>>>>> and want Windows ME back, where I had more control over where
>>>>>> files were stored and could delete trash without fighting the OS
>>>>>> security beast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>            
>>>>> which is why i want my Win98SE back... i can't stand XP's pile of
>>>>> users...
>>>>>    
>>>>>          
>>>> What does that mean?  "XP's pile of users"
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>        
>>> like
>>>
>>> admin
>>> me
>>> the wife
>>> kid one
>>> kid two
>>> kid one's kid
>>> kid two's kid one
>>> kid two's kid two
>>>
>>> all piled up in the sitting room!
>>>
>>> reg
>>>      
>> Win98 supported multiple users also.  Maybe sean doesn't know how to
>> turn off the default Welcome Screen...  Or use TweakUI to auto login.
>>
>> This reply is NOT OT, as it DIRECTLY relates to "Windows Vista", as
>> the same method can be applied.  Please DO NOT apply this post to the
>> OT count.
>>
>>    
> actually i'm not a complete idiot... we have no welcome screen... but i
> do have a pet halibut...
>  

smoked filets of... (preferably beechwood)
broil gently for 15 minutes in milk/water (50-50%) with a SMALL dash of
malt vinegar
serve HOT with butter and a side of toast

goes best with a good coffee!

reg

ps - kill fish before smoking!

> under documents and settings
> XP is a morass of users... none of which i created...
> all users
> computer owner
> administrator
>
> each with a repetitve file heirarchy...
> i suppose if i followed the sheep and filed everything away in the
> childishly named "my documents" i wouldn't get so bothered...
>  

my documents and documents and settings....
re-install Windows and huhu! Where is everything??

reg
> follow-up set to mozilla.general...
>  

why do that?  this is all about Thunderbird, or...??


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Re: Windows Vista

squaredancer
In reply to this post by sean.bean
On 05.01.2008 20:09, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  
[hidden email] to generate the following:? :

> DevilsPGD wrote:
>  
>> In message <[hidden email]>
>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> well gee thanks reg... nothing in boot.ini to edit...
>>> users on the system isn't the problem... its finding files in the morass
>>> of XP's layers of stealth users... administrator/computerowner/deleted
>>> users/ that makes life harrowing...
>>>      
>> User Manager isn't that hard to use...
>>    
>
> yes i know... but in 98se i didn't have to ...
>  

yeah, well, sean!  Those *were* the days, but here you keep getting told
to "update *or* die", so you update.... *and* die!
Bought the latest computer mag yesterday - great stuff about how to
"tame" Vista - so that it works *lol*

reg
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OT, reg, look out!! was Re: Windows Vista

Daniel-24
In reply to this post by squaredancer
squaredancer wrote:

> On 05.01.2008 23:06, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  sean bean to
> generate the following:? :
>> Terry R. wrote:
>>  
>>> The date and time was 1/4/2008 4:39 AM, and on a whim, squaredancer
>>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> On 04.01.2008 01:15, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R.
>>>> to generate the following:? :
>>>>      
>>>>> The date and time was 1/3/2008 9:09 AM, and on a whim, sean bean
>>>>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>        
>>>>>> Ron K. wrote:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> [hidden email] keyboarded, On 12/30/2007 9:06 AM :
>>>>>>>                

<snip>

> smoked filets of... (preferably beechwood)
> broil gently for 15 minutes in milk/water (50-50%) with a SMALL dash of
> malt vinegar

<snip>

".... a SMALL  dash ...." Is that something like a "tincture"??

(From the "Milton the Monster Show" theme song and my dictionary.)

Daniel
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Re: Windows Vista

Terry R.
In reply to this post by Ken Whiton
The date and time was 1/5/2008 2:03 PM, and on a whim, sean bean pounded
out on the keyboard:

> Terry R. wrote:
>> The date and time was 1/4/2008 4:39 AM, and on a whim, squaredancer
>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>> On 04.01.2008 01:15, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
>>> generate the following:? :
>>>> The date and time was 1/3/2008 9:09 AM, and on a whim, sean bean
>>>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>> Ron K. wrote:
>>>>>    
>>>>>> [hidden email] keyboarded, On 12/30/2007 9:06 AM :
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>> Anyone having trouble with Vista? Mozilla won't spell check or
>>>>>>> download the dictionaries. I'm just about 'over it'. Looking at
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> email programs. Vista doesn't support Outlook and Live Mail is
>>>>>>> horrible. Input welcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rascal
>>>>>>>          
>>>>>> Vista Home Basic was pre4installed on the Compaq I purchased.  I
>>>>>> have had no trouble with Fx or Tbird running.  Spellcheck works.  
>>>>>> You have to run as Admin to do the installs. Over all I hate Vista
>>>>>> and want Windows ME back, where I had more control over where
>>>>>> files were stored and could delete trash without fighting the OS
>>>>>> security beast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      
>>>>> which is why i want my Win98SE back... i can't stand XP's pile of
>>>>> users...
>>>>>    
>>>> What does that mean?  "XP's pile of users"
>>>>
>>>>  
>>> like
>>>
>>> admin
>>> me
>>> the wife
>>> kid one
>>> kid two
>>> kid one's kid
>>> kid two's kid one
>>> kid two's kid two
>>>
>>> all piled up in the sitting room!
>>>
>>> reg
>>
>> Win98 supported multiple users also.  Maybe sean doesn't know how to
>> turn off the default Welcome Screen...  Or use TweakUI to auto login.
>>
>> This reply is NOT OT, as it DIRECTLY relates to "Windows Vista", as
>> the same method can be applied.  Please DO NOT apply this post to the
>> OT count.
>>
> actually i'm not a complete idiot... we have no welcome screen... but i
> do have a pet halibut...
>
> under documents and settings
> XP is a morass of users... none of which i created...
> all users
> computer owner
> administrator
>
> each with a repetitve file heirarchy...
> i suppose if i followed the sheep and filed everything away in the
> childishly named "my documents" i wouldn't get so bothered...
>
> follow-up set to mozilla.general...
>
>
>

Well your explanation was vague at best and giving a list as you did led
me to believe your "pile of users" was at the Welcome screen, not in
Explorer.

You can't get rid of Administrator, but all others you created
(including Admin).  Things you have to ask yourself before creating all
those profiles:
1. Does each user need the privacy and security of an individual profile?
2. Do I as the Administrator WANT them to have that privacy and security?

Localizing data locations isn't hard to do.  And you are so critical of
"My Documents" and yet it seems that you are complaining about something
you could have prevented by a thought out plan in the beginning.

Actually the "sheep" implementation of My Documents was to fix the very
thing you're complaining about. It was very common for users to store
their data in different locations most of the time and not be able to
find it.

--
Terry R.
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Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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