Re: OT - sorta Re: TB won't connect

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Re: OT - sorta Re: TB won't connect

Terry R.
The date and time was 1/3/2008 11:27 AM, and on a whim, Jay Garcia
pounded out on the keyboard:

> On 03.01.2008 13:08, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
>
>  --- Original Message ---
>
>> squaredancer wrote:
>>> On 03.01.2008 14:06, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Moz Champion
>>> (Dan) to generate the following:? :
>>>> squaredancer wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> On 03.01.2008 04:43, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  
>>>>> [hidden email] to generate the following:? :
>>>>>    
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 8:33 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>> Suddenly today my Thunderbird newsgroup reader won't connect to my
>>>>>>> server. I have even deleted the old TB and downloaded and set up the
>>>>>>> newest version and it still won't connect.
>>>>>>> My Outlook and other internet connections are working fine.
>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>> Just found out that my cable internet service has decided to drop
>>>>>> their newsgroup service today. Wonderful! Just as they raise the price
>>>>>> they drop services.
>>>>>>        
>>>>> write them a nice polite letter stating that, as they have REDUCED
>>>>> THE QUALITY of their services, you consider it your right to deduct a
>>>>> sum (say, 10%) from the subscription you pay!
>>>>>
>>>>> reg
>>>>>    
>>>>
>>>> Except most ISP/Cable/Provider agreements specify that you accept the
>>>> service 'as is' AND that they can make any changes they deem
>>>> neccessary/prudent as they see fit.  Which precludes any 'action' by
>>>> users such as you describe.
>>>>
>>>> What you CAN do, as a consumer, is show your displeasure by ending
>>>> your subscription/account - if enough people do that then the message
>>>> is heard loud and clear in the ears of management. Not everyone is in
>>>> a position to switch providers easily tho, so it may not be quite as
>>>> 'easy' to do.
>>>>
>>>> For example here are the relevent sections from my providers TOS
>>>>
>>>> By using XXXXXX’s Services in Xxxxxxx, the Customer expressly agrees
>>>> to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement. If the
>>>> Customer does not agree with the terms and conditions of the
>>>> Agreement, the Customer may exercise the right to terminate the
>>>> Agreement according to the termination provision included herein and
>>>> cease using the Services.
>>>>
>>>> XXXXXXX reserves any and all rights, whenever it will observe that the
>>>> consumption by the Customer of incremental transactional Services
>>>> (such as Pay-Per-View movies or events, or Video on Demand movies)
>>>> exceeds a reasonable limit for such Services, as determined by XXXXXX
>>>> in its sole judgement, to temporarily suspend or restrict the
>>>> Customer's access to those Services and/or any other Services related
>>>> thereto, without the necessity of any prior notice to Customer. The
>>>> Customer will then have the obligation to contact XXXXXX's customer
>>>> service, which may at that time require from the Customer a payment to
>>>> cover the cost incurred by prior excessive consumption of those
>>>> Services, enabling the Customer to have access again to such Services.
>>>>
>>>> The Customer agrees to pay the total charges due in accordance with
>>>> section 4 hereof using any of the following methods: (i) automatically
>>>> by pre-authorized bank withdrawals or credit card payment; (ii) by
>>>> mailing a cheque or money order to XXXXXX; (iii) by telephone/PC
>>>> banking; or (iv) at any financial institution.
>>>>
>>>> XXXXXX may propose to change, modify, add or remove any provision of
>>>> this Agreement (including the Acceptable Use Policy referred to below,
>>>> if applicable) at intervals of at least 30 days.  Such changes may
>>>> include, without limitation, modifications, additions to or removals
>>>> from the Services, their features and charges, or the terms and
>>>> conditions upon which XXXXXX distributes and the Customer receives the
>>>> Services.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you would check your specific TOS/AUP for your provider, I suggest
>>>> you will find similar clauses in the contract which you signed (and
>>>> agree to by use of the service). In short, they have you by the short
>>>> and curlies.
>>>>  
>>> most certainly NOT, here in Europe and - from what I have seen of
>>> Canadian consumer-protection-laws, would those TOS would not stand much
>>> of a chance in a legal challenge...
>>>
>>> here, we have a CONTRACT as at the time of signing - and that stands.....
>>> if the company wishes to change/terminate any part of that VALID
>>> contract, they are REQUIRED, by law, to get the customer's agreement -
>>> and *not* an "agreement by non-response"... the customer must agree to
>>> the changes in written form!
>>>
>>> The European High Courts are not inclined towards the multis - even
>>> Google and poor old Bill Gates have had that brandmarked well into their
>>> asses....
>>>
>>> reg
>>
>> TOS/AUP have been challanged in both Canada and the United States and
>> have been found acceptable.
>>
>> Yes, they are a contract, but the contract states quite clearly that one
>>   side (the provider) can change it as they see fit.
>>
>> If you don't accept that provision, then you don't 'sign up' or get the
>> service, it is as simple as that.
>>
>> A contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties that both
>> agree to PRIOR to entering into the arrangement. So, BEFORE you sign up,
>> you have the opportunity to read that (they can change it without
>> notice) and decline.  YOU agreed to that provision when you signed up
>> for the service!  What? You didn't read it? Well, that's YOUR problem,
>> not the courts.
>>
>> TOS/AUP's are accepted 'as is' simply because usually there is no
>> downside to declining the service. If you refuse to accept that
>> provision, then you can quit - almost anytime and pay no 'fee' or 'early
>> out' provision at all.  You don't like that provision? Easy, don't use
>> the service.
>>
>
> Correct and in addition, which MUST be read AND accepted by the customer:
>
> <company> reserves the right to modify the terms of this Agreement or
> prices for the Service and may discontinue or revise any or all other
> aspects of the Service in its sole discretion at any time by posting
> changes online. Your continued use of the Service after changes are
> posted constitutes your acceptance of this Agreement as modified by the
> posted changes. The updated, online version of this Agreement shall
> supersede any prior version of this Agreement that may have been
> included in any software or related materials provided by <company>.
> This Agreement should be read in conjunction with our Acceptable Use
> Policy, ("AUP"), Online Privacy Policy, and other applicable policies.
>
> Follow up set to .general .. just in case.
>

Sad...but you're right.  I guess we're ALWAYS supposed to redirect, even
if we're not sure.  That may leave a lot of frustrated people who don't
know what a follow up is nor .general.  But that's the risk the powers
that be are willing to take...

--
Terry R.
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
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Re: OT - sorta Re: TB won't connect

squaredancer
On 03.01.2008 22:34, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
generate the following:? :

> The date and time was 1/3/2008 11:27 AM, and on a whim, Jay Garcia
> pounded out on the keyboard:
>
>  
>> On 03.01.2008 13:08, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
>>
>>  --- Original Message ---
>>
>>    
>>> squaredancer wrote:
>>>      
>>>> On 03.01.2008 14:06, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Moz Champion
>>>> (Dan) to generate the following:? :
>>>>        
>>>>> squaredancer wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>>          
>>>>>> On 03.01.2008 04:43, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  
>>>>>> [hidden email] to generate the following:? :
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 8:33 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>> Suddenly today my Thunderbird newsgroup reader won't connect to my
>>>>>>>> server. I have even deleted the old TB and downloaded and set up the
>>>>>>>> newest version and it still won't connect.
>>>>>>>> My Outlook and other internet connections are working fine.
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>> Just found out that my cable internet service has decided to drop
>>>>>>> their newsgroup service today. Wonderful! Just as they raise the price
>>>>>>> they drop services.
>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>> write them a nice polite letter stating that, as they have REDUCED
>>>>>> THE QUALITY of their services, you consider it your right to deduct a
>>>>>> sum (say, 10%) from the subscription you pay!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> reg
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>            
>>>>> Except most ISP/Cable/Provider agreements specify that you accept the
>>>>> service 'as is' AND that they can make any changes they deem
>>>>> neccessary/prudent as they see fit.  Which precludes any 'action' by
>>>>> users such as you describe.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you CAN do, as a consumer, is show your displeasure by ending
>>>>> your subscription/account - if enough people do that then the message
>>>>> is heard loud and clear in the ears of management. Not everyone is in
>>>>> a position to switch providers easily tho, so it may not be quite as
>>>>> 'easy' to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example here are the relevent sections from my providers TOS
>>>>>
>>>>> By using XXXXXX’s Services in Xxxxxxx, the Customer expressly agrees
>>>>> to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement. If the
>>>>> Customer does not agree with the terms and conditions of the
>>>>> Agreement, the Customer may exercise the right to terminate the
>>>>> Agreement according to the termination provision included herein and
>>>>> cease using the Services.
>>>>>
>>>>> XXXXXXX reserves any and all rights, whenever it will observe that the
>>>>> consumption by the Customer of incremental transactional Services
>>>>> (such as Pay-Per-View movies or events, or Video on Demand movies)
>>>>> exceeds a reasonable limit for such Services, as determined by XXXXXX
>>>>> in its sole judgement, to temporarily suspend or restrict the
>>>>> Customer's access to those Services and/or any other Services related
>>>>> thereto, without the necessity of any prior notice to Customer. The
>>>>> Customer will then have the obligation to contact XXXXXX's customer
>>>>> service, which may at that time require from the Customer a payment to
>>>>> cover the cost incurred by prior excessive consumption of those
>>>>> Services, enabling the Customer to have access again to such Services.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Customer agrees to pay the total charges due in accordance with
>>>>> section 4 hereof using any of the following methods: (i) automatically
>>>>> by pre-authorized bank withdrawals or credit card payment; (ii) by
>>>>> mailing a cheque or money order to XXXXXX; (iii) by telephone/PC
>>>>> banking; or (iv) at any financial institution.
>>>>>
>>>>> XXXXXX may propose to change, modify, add or remove any provision of
>>>>> this Agreement (including the Acceptable Use Policy referred to below,
>>>>> if applicable) at intervals of at least 30 days.  Such changes may
>>>>> include, without limitation, modifications, additions to or removals
>>>>> from the Services, their features and charges, or the terms and
>>>>> conditions upon which XXXXXX distributes and the Customer receives the
>>>>> Services.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you would check your specific TOS/AUP for your provider, I suggest
>>>>> you will find similar clauses in the contract which you signed (and
>>>>> agree to by use of the service). In short, they have you by the short
>>>>> and curlies.
>>>>>  
>>>>>          
>>>> most certainly NOT, here in Europe and - from what I have seen of
>>>> Canadian consumer-protection-laws, would those TOS would not stand much
>>>> of a chance in a legal challenge...
>>>>
>>>> here, we have a CONTRACT as at the time of signing - and that stands.....
>>>> if the company wishes to change/terminate any part of that VALID
>>>> contract, they are REQUIRED, by law, to get the customer's agreement -
>>>> and *not* an "agreement by non-response"... the customer must agree to
>>>> the changes in written form!
>>>>
>>>> The European High Courts are not inclined towards the multis - even
>>>> Google and poor old Bill Gates have had that brandmarked well into their
>>>> asses....
>>>>
>>>> reg
>>>>        
>>> TOS/AUP have been challanged in both Canada and the United States and
>>> have been found acceptable.
>>>
>>> Yes, they are a contract, but the contract states quite clearly that one
>>>   side (the provider) can change it as they see fit.
>>>
>>> If you don't accept that provision, then you don't 'sign up' or get the
>>> service, it is as simple as that.
>>>
>>> A contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties that both
>>> agree to PRIOR to entering into the arrangement. So, BEFORE you sign up,
>>> you have the opportunity to read that (they can change it without
>>> notice) and decline.  YOU agreed to that provision when you signed up
>>> for the service!  What? You didn't read it? Well, that's YOUR problem,
>>> not the courts.
>>>
>>> TOS/AUP's are accepted 'as is' simply because usually there is no
>>> downside to declining the service. If you refuse to accept that
>>> provision, then you can quit - almost anytime and pay no 'fee' or 'early
>>> out' provision at all.  You don't like that provision? Easy, don't use
>>> the service.
>>>
>>>      
>> Correct and in addition, which MUST be read AND accepted by the customer:
>>
>> <company> reserves the right to modify the terms of this Agreement or
>> prices for the Service and may discontinue or revise any or all other
>> aspects of the Service in its sole discretion at any time by posting
>> changes online. Your continued use of the Service after changes are
>> posted constitutes your acceptance of this Agreement as modified by the
>> posted changes. The updated, online version of this Agreement shall
>> supersede any prior version of this Agreement that may have been
>> included in any software or related materials provided by <company>.
>> This Agreement should be read in conjunction with our Acceptable Use
>> Policy, ("AUP"), Online Privacy Policy, and other applicable policies.
>>
>> Follow up set to .general .. just in case.
>>
>>    
>
> Sad...but you're right.  I guess we're ALWAYS supposed to redirect, even
> if we're not sure.  That may leave a lot of frustrated people who don't
> know what a follow up is nor .general.  But that's the risk the powers
> that be are willing to take...
>
>  


best bet is to say "FUed to..."
then go away
let those not in the know ask the moderator "WTF does FUed mean? Am I
being insulted?"

reg
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Re: OT - sorta Re: TB won't connect

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo
squaredancer wrote:

> On 03.01.2008 22:34, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Terry R. to
> generate the following:? :
>> The date and time was 1/3/2008 11:27 AM, and on a whim, Jay Garcia
>> pounded out on the keyboard:
>>
>>  
>>> On 03.01.2008 13:08, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
>>>
>>>  --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>    
>>>> squaredancer wrote:
>>>>      
>>>>> On 03.01.2008 14:06, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  Moz Champion
>>>>> (Dan) to generate the following:? :
>>>>>        
>>>>>> squaredancer wrote:
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>          
>>>>>>> On 03.01.2008 04:43, CET - what odd quirk of fate caused  
>>>>>>> [hidden email] to generate the following:? :
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 8:33 pm, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>>> Suddenly today my Thunderbird newsgroup reader won't connect to my
>>>>>>>>> server. I have even deleted the old TB and downloaded and set up the
>>>>>>>>> newest version and it still won't connect.
>>>>>>>>> My Outlook and other internet connections are working fine.
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>>            
>>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>> Just found out that my cable internet service has decided to drop
>>>>>>>> their newsgroup service today. Wonderful! Just as they raise the price
>>>>>>>> they drop services.
>>>>>>>>        
>>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>> write them a nice polite letter stating that, as they have REDUCED
>>>>>>> THE QUALITY of their services, you consider it your right to deduct a
>>>>>>> sum (say, 10%) from the subscription you pay!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reg
>>>>>>>    
>>>>>>>            
>>>>>> Except most ISP/Cable/Provider agreements specify that you accept the
>>>>>> service 'as is' AND that they can make any changes they deem
>>>>>> neccessary/prudent as they see fit.  Which precludes any 'action' by
>>>>>> users such as you describe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you CAN do, as a consumer, is show your displeasure by ending
>>>>>> your subscription/account - if enough people do that then the message
>>>>>> is heard loud and clear in the ears of management. Not everyone is in
>>>>>> a position to switch providers easily tho, so it may not be quite as
>>>>>> 'easy' to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example here are the relevent sections from my providers TOS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By using XXXXXX’s Services in Xxxxxxx, the Customer expressly agrees
>>>>>> to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement. If the
>>>>>> Customer does not agree with the terms and conditions of the
>>>>>> Agreement, the Customer may exercise the right to terminate the
>>>>>> Agreement according to the termination provision included herein and
>>>>>> cease using the Services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> XXXXXXX reserves any and all rights, whenever it will observe that the
>>>>>> consumption by the Customer of incremental transactional Services
>>>>>> (such as Pay-Per-View movies or events, or Video on Demand movies)
>>>>>> exceeds a reasonable limit for such Services, as determined by XXXXXX
>>>>>> in its sole judgement, to temporarily suspend or restrict the
>>>>>> Customer's access to those Services and/or any other Services related
>>>>>> thereto, without the necessity of any prior notice to Customer. The
>>>>>> Customer will then have the obligation to contact XXXXXX's customer
>>>>>> service, which may at that time require from the Customer a payment to
>>>>>> cover the cost incurred by prior excessive consumption of those
>>>>>> Services, enabling the Customer to have access again to such Services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Customer agrees to pay the total charges due in accordance with
>>>>>> section 4 hereof using any of the following methods: (i) automatically
>>>>>> by pre-authorized bank withdrawals or credit card payment; (ii) by
>>>>>> mailing a cheque or money order to XXXXXX; (iii) by telephone/PC
>>>>>> banking; or (iv) at any financial institution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> XXXXXX may propose to change, modify, add or remove any provision of
>>>>>> this Agreement (including the Acceptable Use Policy referred to below,
>>>>>> if applicable) at intervals of at least 30 days.  Such changes may
>>>>>> include, without limitation, modifications, additions to or removals
>>>>>> from the Services, their features and charges, or the terms and
>>>>>> conditions upon which XXXXXX distributes and the Customer receives the
>>>>>> Services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you would check your specific TOS/AUP for your provider, I suggest
>>>>>> you will find similar clauses in the contract which you signed (and
>>>>>> agree to by use of the service). In short, they have you by the short
>>>>>> and curlies.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>          
>>>>> most certainly NOT, here in Europe and - from what I have seen of
>>>>> Canadian consumer-protection-laws, would those TOS would not stand much
>>>>> of a chance in a legal challenge...
>>>>>
>>>>> here, we have a CONTRACT as at the time of signing - and that stands.....
>>>>> if the company wishes to change/terminate any part of that VALID
>>>>> contract, they are REQUIRED, by law, to get the customer's agreement -
>>>>> and *not* an "agreement by non-response"... the customer must agree to
>>>>> the changes in written form!
>>>>>
>>>>> The European High Courts are not inclined towards the multis - even
>>>>> Google and poor old Bill Gates have had that brandmarked well into their
>>>>> asses....
>>>>>
>>>>> reg
>>>>>        
>>>> TOS/AUP have been challanged in both Canada and the United States and
>>>> have been found acceptable.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they are a contract, but the contract states quite clearly that one
>>>>   side (the provider) can change it as they see fit.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't accept that provision, then you don't 'sign up' or get the
>>>> service, it is as simple as that.
>>>>
>>>> A contract is a legally binding agreement between two parties that both
>>>> agree to PRIOR to entering into the arrangement. So, BEFORE you sign up,
>>>> you have the opportunity to read that (they can change it without
>>>> notice) and decline.  YOU agreed to that provision when you signed up
>>>> for the service!  What? You didn't read it? Well, that's YOUR problem,
>>>> not the courts.
>>>>
>>>> TOS/AUP's are accepted 'as is' simply because usually there is no
>>>> downside to declining the service. If you refuse to accept that
>>>> provision, then you can quit - almost anytime and pay no 'fee' or 'early
>>>> out' provision at all.  You don't like that provision? Easy, don't use
>>>> the service.
>>>>
>>>>      
>>> Correct and in addition, which MUST be read AND accepted by the customer:
>>>
>>> <company> reserves the right to modify the terms of this Agreement or
>>> prices for the Service and may discontinue or revise any or all other
>>> aspects of the Service in its sole discretion at any time by posting
>>> changes online. Your continued use of the Service after changes are
>>> posted constitutes your acceptance of this Agreement as modified by the
>>> posted changes. The updated, online version of this Agreement shall
>>> supersede any prior version of this Agreement that may have been
>>> included in any software or related materials provided by <company>.
>>> This Agreement should be read in conjunction with our Acceptable Use
>>> Policy, ("AUP"), Online Privacy Policy, and other applicable policies.
>>>
>>> Follow up set to .general .. just in case.
>>>
>>>    
>> Sad...but you're right.  I guess we're ALWAYS supposed to redirect, even
>> if we're not sure.  That may leave a lot of frustrated people who don't
>> know what a follow up is nor .general.  But that's the risk the powers
>> that be are willing to take...
>>
>>  
>
>
> best bet is to say "FUed to..."
> then go away
> let those not in the know ask the moderator "WTF does FUed mean? Am I
> being insulted?"
>
> reg

thats happened a couple of time, I believe in the last 6
months of '07

--
*IMPORTANT*: Sorry folks, but I cannot provide email help!!!!

Warning: Private emails to me may become public

Notice: This posting is protected under Copyright Laws.

Posting of this message may get me banned from the Mozilla
Newsgroups, as its not "contributing to the developement of
the Mozilla Project"

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm
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