Re: Does TB have a jrefs.js file (Win7)?

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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

goodwin-4
On 10/17/2011 08:28 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

<snip>
>
> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
> well. We didn't try to fix something that wasn't broke. YMMV
>

so why did I have paw thru the rest to arrive at this?
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Andy Civil-2
Andy Civil wrote:
> On 11-10-17 07:24 PM, Terry R. wrote:
>
>> ... you're the only one who has an issue with
>> it, so it really is YOUR problem, and no one elses.
>
> Your signature (name) is part of your signature (.sig).
>

I agree!! When Terry includes his *signature* in a post, it should go
below the line, but as Terry doesn't post his signature, there is no
problem with his *name* above the line!

IMHO, of course!

Daniel
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Andy Civil-2
On 18.10.2011 00:54, Andy Civil wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 11-10-17 07:24 PM, Terry R. wrote:
>
>> ... you're the only one who has an issue with
>> it, so it really is YOUR problem, and no one elses.
>
> Your signature (name) is part of your signature (.sig).
>

Why? Is there something written about that?

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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by goodwin-4
On 18.10.2011 01:12, goodwin wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 10/17/2011 08:28 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
>> well. We didn't try to fix something that wasn't broke. YMMV
>>
>
> so why did I have paw thru the rest to arrive at this?

Paw? :-)

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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

glad2be
On 10/18/2011 11:33 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 18.10.2011 01:12, goodwin wrote:
>> On 10/17/2011 08:28 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
>>> well. We didn't try to fix something that wasn't broke. YMMV
>>>
>> so why did I have paw thru the rest to arrive at this?
>
> Paw? :-)
sho, maw's old man.


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walking the walk. long live tux.

g
.


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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

glad2be
In reply to this post by John McWilliams via TB
On 10/18/2011 03:30 AM, John McWilliams wrote:
<>

> You should just kill-file me if you can't resist defending YOUR name's
> being misplaced.

it would be easier/better to 'kill-file' the troll.

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walking the walk. long live tux.

g
.


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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Andy Civil-2
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 11-10-18 07:33 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 18.10.2011 00:54, Andy Civil wrote:
>>
>> Your signature (name) is part of your signature (.sig).
>>
>
> Why? Is there something written about that?

I'm reluctant to start quoting RFCs because although they carry the
weight of authority, they tend to be rather outdated; sometimes I mock
people who use RFCs to justify strange behaviour, so if I did this
myself I could be accused of hypocrisy. Did you know, for example, that
the signature block was originally supposed to contain your email
address, because some mail agents stripped headers? I think that anyone
who suggested putting an email address in a sig block nowadays would be
condemned as seriously eccentric. However, if you want authority, try this:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-usefor-useage-01#section-3.1.2.1
"... identifying the poster ..."
I can't find anything more specific, I think it's so obvious that it's
not even stated.

For a more up-to-date reference, try this:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Signatures_%28Thunderbird%29
again, the name is so obvious that it's not stated, but both examples
have it. The reference at the bottom of that page, which I hope gives it
some credibility, is here:
http://mailformat.dan.info/trailers/sigblocks.html
where the first sentence does actually spell out "...giving your name..."

Why else would a signature block be called a "signature" if it wasn't
based on your signature as its fundamental component?

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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
Jay Garcia wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> What the answerer is going to be saying applies only to the words which
>> have been left untrimmed, not all of the noncontributory ones.

> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
> well.

MS and the MS MVPs like the way top posting support worked on the MS
news server's groups too, but that doesn't mean those MVPs should
'expand' that style of posting to other newsgroups where it isn't best
at all.

The newbs who 'learned' to top post from the MVPs there also shouldn't
take that style with them other places either.

Top posting derives from a corporate email concept, but is also
associated with posting 'laziness'.

Bottom posting untrimmed derives partly from a laziness concept which
people try to 'excuse' or justify as if it were the type of /summary/
which has been described as being useful 'in the old days' when there
was some kind of problem which arose in a newsgroup and a 'pollster'
agreed to 'instead' accept input by email and then the pollster came
back to the group with a summary of the input which had been obtained.
How nice.

These support groups are actually more like conversational groups in
which a question arises, not necessarily from a newbie and then a
conversation of input derives from people who are more like peers than a
'class structure' of experienced vs inexperienced.

Normal newsgroups don't need top posting and normal newsgroups don't
need untrimmed bottom posting and these support groups are and should
function like normal newsgroups which are _also_ support oriented, not
like they are 'something else' than normal newsgroups that should be
structured 'differently' a la MS groups.


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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
On 10/18/2011 8:23 AM On a whim, Mike Easter pounded out on the keyboard

> MS and the MS MVPs like the way top posting support worked on the MS
> news server's groups too, but that doesn't mean those MVPs should
> 'expand' that style of posting to other newsgroups where it isn't best
> at all.
>
> The newbs who 'learned' to top post from the MVPs there also shouldn't
> take that style with them other places either.
>
> Top posting derives from a corporate email concept, but is also
> associated with posting 'laziness'.
>

Actually I think it is/was more from the way MS set the default on their
clients.  Users didn't know any different.



Terry R.
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by Andy Civil-2
On 10/17/2011 10:54 PM On a whim, Andy Civil pounded out on the keyboard

> On 11-10-17 07:24 PM, Terry R. wrote:
>
>> ... you're the only one who has an issue with
>> it, so it really is YOUR problem, and no one elses.
>
> Your signature (name) is part of your signature (.sig).
>

Not on my sigs it isn't.


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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by Andy Civil-2
On 10/18/2011 8:20 AM On a whim, Andy Civil pounded out on the keyboard

> I can't find anything more specific, I think it's so obvious that it's
> not even stated.
>
> Why else would a signature block be called a "signature" if it wasn't
> based on your signature as its fundamental component?
>

Well, the first two paragraphs in the wiki don't state anywhere that it
has to contain a name, but only specifically, "a block of text appended
to the end".  It also only states, "usually contained".  And I choose
not to.  That doesn't make it wrong.  The specific information I don't
want repeated is below the delimiter, which is exactly what I want done.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block

Since you have only recently piped in here, I had explained before to
John that the reason I chose to place my name above the sig is because
of the lousy way people trimmed responses.  I didn't like having to post
back stating, "I didn't write that".


Terry R.
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by John McWilliams via TB
On 10/17/2011 8:30 PM On a whim, John McWilliams pounded out on the keyboard

> On 10/17/11   PDT 4:24 PM, Terry R. wrote:
>
>> MY name in MY post does not show a lack of courtesy in any way shape or
>> form. As I've suggested to yo many times, if you don't like it, don't
>> respond. Problem solved. And you're the only one who has an issue with
>> it, so it really is YOUR problem, and no one elses.
>>
>> You bringing up old issues on the other hand shows a huge lack of courtesy.
>
>
> The lack of courtesy is in repeating your error and then bleating about
> how it is all right.
>
> You should just kill-file me if you can't resist defending YOUR name's
> being misplaced.
>

I don't have to defend it, just reminding you of your obstinacy.  You
don't have any proof to your case against it.


Terry R.
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

goodwin-4
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 10/18/2011 04:33 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 18.10.2011 01:12, goodwin wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 10/17/2011 08:28 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
>>> well. We didn't try to fix something that wasn't broke. YMMV
>>>
>>
>> so why did I have paw thru the rest to arrive at this?
>
> Paw? :-)
>
my cat walks on the keyboard...
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by glad2be
On 10/18/2011 4:57 AM On a whim, [hidden email] pounded out on
the keyboard

> it would be easier/better to 'kill-file' the troll.
>

TROLL Definition:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
"...someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in
an online community..."

I don't post inflammatory messages.

This is mozilla.GENERAL
Definition:  http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/general
"not specific or definite"

NOTHING is OT here

I do not post in the support groups as glad2be does.  glad2be has been
known to badmouth and bash Windows users IN the support groups, and has
had posts removed for being OT.

Who is the "troll"?

Terry R.
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 17.10.2011 16:05, Mike Easter wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> PhillipJones wrote:
>>
>>> So for answering support questions Trimming should be banned.
>>
>> Ridiculous premise and conclusion.
>>
>> Some support questions are full of rambling and 'wandering around'
>> because the questioner is confused and doesn't understand the problem,
>> and almost none of what has thus been posted by them is useful; only
>> 'distracting' from the *real* issue. People who might help don't even
>> want to read it all.
>>
>> Distilling all of that content down to a single line or two if possible
>> is exactly what needs to be done so that now the questioner's attention
>> is drawn to the one thing s/he said that was of importance to resolve
>> the problem.
>>
>> What the answerer is going to be saying applies only to the words which
>> have been left untrimmed, not all of the noncontributory ones.
>>
>>
>
> Non-trimming worked very well on secnews. The devs liked it that way as
> well. We didn't try to fix something that wasn't broke. YMMV
>
But what about the case of cutting down to to lines of reply. and you
suggest a possible solution. Only to be told That very solution was
suggested a week before or  few days before or months before.

Remember I have setup to remove read messages on news groups if older
than two days.

--
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http://www.phillipmjones.net        mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

John McWilliams via TB
In reply to this post by Terry R.-3
On 10/18/11   PDT 9:36 AM, Terry R. wrote:

> I don't have to defend it, just reminding you of your obstinacy. You
> don't have any proof to your case against it.
>
>
> Terry R.

PKB!
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

John McWilliams via TB
In reply to this post by Terry R.-3
On 10/18/11   PDT 9:32 AM, Terry R. wrote:

> On 10/18/2011 8:20 AM On a whim, Andy Civil pounded out on the keyboard
>
>> I can't find anything more specific, I think it's so obvious that it's
>> not even stated.
>>
>> Why else would a signature block be called a "signature" if it wasn't
>> based on your signature as its fundamental component?
>>
>
> Well, the first two paragraphs in the wiki don't state anywhere that it
> has to contain a name, but only specifically, "a block of text appended
> to the end". It also only states, "usually contained". And I choose not
> to. That doesn't make it wrong. The specific information I don't want
> repeated is below the delimiter, which is exactly what I want done.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block
>
> Since you have only recently piped in here, I had explained before to
> John that the reason I chose to place my name above the sig is because
> of the lousy way people trimmed responses. I didn't like having to post
> back stating, "I didn't write that".

TR:
Your reasoning is fallacious; your silly sig. formation doesn't prevent
misquoting! Really.....

Andy:
Terry's never wrong, whether able to quote RFCs or not, convention or
not, civility or not.

--
Man tends to increase at a greater rate than his means of subsistence;
consequently he is occasionally subjected to a severe struggle for
existence, and natural selection will have effected whatever lies within
its scope.
      ~ Charles Darwin: The Descent of Man, 1871
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

John McWilliams via TB
In reply to this post by Terry R.-3
On 10/18/11   PDT 9:23 AM, Terry R. wrote:

> On 10/17/2011 10:54 PM On a whim, Andy Civil pounded out on the keyboard
>
>> On 11-10-17 07:24 PM, Terry R. wrote:
>>
>>> ... you're the only one who has an issue with
>>> it, so it really is YOUR problem, and no one elses.
>>
>> Your signature (name) is part of your signature (.sig).
>>
>
> Not on my sigs it isn't.

Thass' right: Terry is /different/.

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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
On 10/18/2011 11:28 AM On a whim, PhillipJones pounded out on the keyboard

> But what about the case of cutting down to to lines of reply. and you
> suggest a possible solution. Only to be told That very solution was
> suggested a week before or  few days before or months before.
>
> Remember I have setup to remove read messages on news groups if older
> than two days.
>

So change it.  There isn't that much activity in any of these groups to
worry about disk usage.  I would change them to 60-90 days or more.


Terry R.
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Re: Posting etiquette, [was: TB have a.....]

Terry R.-3
In reply to this post by John McWilliams via TB
On 10/18/2011 12:32 PM On a whim, John McWilliams pounded out on the
keyboard

> On 10/18/11   PDT 9:32 AM, Terry R. wrote:
>> On 10/18/2011 8:20 AM On a whim, Andy Civil pounded out on the keyboard
>>
>>> I can't find anything more specific, I think it's so obvious that it's
>>> not even stated.
>>>
>>> Why else would a signature block be called a "signature" if it wasn't
>>> based on your signature as its fundamental component?
>>>
>> Well, the first two paragraphs in the wiki don't state anywhere that it
>> has to contain a name, but only specifically, "a block of text appended
>> to the end". It also only states, "usually contained". And I choose not
>> to. That doesn't make it wrong. The specific information I don't want
>> repeated is below the delimiter, which is exactly what I want done.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block
>>
>> Since you have only recently piped in here, I had explained before to
>> John that the reason I chose to place my name above the sig is because
>> of the lousy way people trimmed responses. I didn't like having to post
>> back stating, "I didn't write that".
>
> TR:
> Your reasoning is fallacious; your silly sig. formation doesn't prevent
> misquoting! Really.....
>

Silly only to you.  I have a reason for doing it, and that's good enough
for me.  I didn't misquote anything.

> Andy:
> Terry's never wrong, whether able to quote RFCs or not, convention or
> not, civility or not.
>

And yet you can't post ANY proof that what I'm doing is actually wrong!
  Don't ever attempt to be a lawyer.

FUD

Terry R.

P.S. So...if I remove my sig and sign my name, I suppose that is wrong
in your eyes too?  And yet I didn't see you getting on Daniel or Jay
when they do it.
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