Re: Condolences to all Canadians

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Daniel
On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>
Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

WaltS48
On 10/22/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>


And to all nationalities for the same senseless loss of life.

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

»Q«
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Charles Lindbergh <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:18:08 -0400, WaltS48
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >On 10/22/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
> >> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life
> >> due to senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
> >>
> >
> >
> >And to all nationalities for the same senseless loss of life.
>
> Just what the fuck is that supposed to mean?  Are you attempting to
> diminish the suffering and grief being felt today by the entire
> nation of Canada?

Is it more important to you than the senseless loss of life in Iraq?
Syria?  Israel?  Nigeria?

> By all means, let's offer condolences to ISIS and Al-Qaeda....

Um, it's the *victims* of those kinds of groups I *thought* you wanted
to express sympathy for, though I can't fathom why you would freak the
fuck out when someone suggests that sympathy might extend beyond
Canada.  How did you get the idea that caring about suffering outside
of Canada might diminish the suffering of Canadians or even the whole of
Canada?
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

»Q«
In reply to this post by Daniel
In <news:[hidden email]>,
Charles Lindbergh <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political
> correctness of the Obama administration is on the way out.

It's been at least marginally better than disasters of the previous
administration's policies.  I take it you have a better plan than
either one for dealing with terrorism?
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Dave Warren-2
In reply to this post by Daniel
In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
Charles Lindbergh <[hidden email]> said:

>The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>Obama administration is on the way out.

What left wing cowardice? Since Obama took over, Osama is dead
(something the Bush administration couldn't pull off), military action
and spending have increased, and the militarization of US police and
domestic enforcement has continued the same court that started in the
Bush days.
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

WaltS48
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 10/23/2014 05:59 PM, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> Charles Lindbergh <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 10:18:08 -0400, WaltS48
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/22/2014 06:46 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life
>>>> due to senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And to all nationalities for the same senseless loss of life.
>>
>> Just what the fuck is that supposed to mean?  Are you attempting to
>> diminish the suffering and grief being felt today by the entire
>> nation of Canada?
>
> Is it more important to you than the senseless loss of life in Iraq?
> Syria?  Israel?  Nigeria?
>


Seems to be more important than the senseless loss of life in the United
States.

I don't recall Charles expressing his condolences after the Ft. Hood
shootings, or Columbine, or Sandy Hook, or the 74 school shootings
reported after Sandy Hook, or other past incidents.

Sorry, I ruffled his feathers.

His post ruffled mine.

Why can't we all just get along? - Rodney King

--
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

EE-2
In reply to this post by Daniel
Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>
>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>>from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>
> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>
> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
> very bad idea.
>
> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
> of life.
>
> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>
Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
than for any other reason.

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Bob Henson-4
On 24/10/2014 8:17 PM, EE wrote:

> Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>
>>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>> >from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>>
>> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
>> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
>> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>>
>> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
>> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
>> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
>> very bad idea.
>>
>> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
>> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
>> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
>> of life.
>>
>> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
>> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>>
> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
> than for any other reason.
>

Couldn't agree more. Religion's only purpose was to give a few
privileged and educated people a way to control the rest of us plebs,
either in conjunction with, or in a power struggle with, the
Kings/Emperors etc. Now we are educated to the point where we don't
believe in Fairies, Black Magic or any of the rest of the Mumbo Jumbo
fed to us by the various churches, we would be well advised to work for
the removal of all religions from the world, as they are only divisive
and set man against man and race against race. Islam is proving that, is
it not? Bob Dylan said it all in "With God on our Side".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_God_on_Our_Side

--
Bob    Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Bad or missing mouse driver. Sack the cat? (Y/N)
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by EE-2
On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
[...]
> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
> than for any other reason.

It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
ideologies.

--
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Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Ron Hunter
On 10/24/2014 7:46 PM, Wolf K. wrote:
> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
> [...]
>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>> than for any other reason.
>
> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
> ideologies.
>
People can, and will, make a religion of almost anything, a smartphone,
an OS, a car brand, science, anything that you take on faith, without
proof, and hold as important.

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by EE-2
On 10/24/2014 7:28 PM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 12:17:05 -0700, EE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>>>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>>>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>>> >from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>>>
>>> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
>>> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
>>> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>>>
>>> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
>>> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
>>> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
>>> very bad idea.
>>>
>>> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>>> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
>>> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
>>> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
>>> of life.
>>>
>>> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
>>> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>>>
>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>> than for any other reason.
>
> Agreed.
>
Or maybe not.  Strangely, sex is right up there with religion.

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Bob Henson-4
On 10/24/2014 2:53 PM, Bob Henson wrote:

> On 24/10/2014 8:17 PM, EE wrote:
>> Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>>>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>>>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>>> >from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>>>
>>> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
>>> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
>>> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>>>
>>> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
>>> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
>>> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
>>> very bad idea.
>>>
>>> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>>> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
>>> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
>>> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
>>> of life.
>>>
>>> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
>>> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>>>
>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>> than for any other reason.
>>
>
> Couldn't agree more. Religion's only purpose was to give a few
> privileged and educated people a way to control the rest of us plebs,
> either in conjunction with, or in a power struggle with, the
> Kings/Emperors etc. Now we are educated to the point where we don't
> believe in Fairies, Black Magic or any of the rest of the Mumbo Jumbo
> fed to us by the various churches, we would be well advised to work for
> the removal of all religions from the world, as they are only divisive
> and set man against man and race against race. Islam is proving that, is
> it not? Bob Dylan said it all in "With God on our Side".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_God_on_Our_Side
>
If that is all it is for you, then you have my sympathy.

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

»Q«
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
In <news:[hidden email]>,
"Wolf K." <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
> [...]
> > Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
> > There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of
> > religion than for any other reason.
>
> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known
> as ideologies.

Following the traditions and beliefs one was raised to is a strong
trait of humanity, but it's not fully hardwired.  The desire to make
sense of it all (whatever that means) is probably hardwired, but
nobody's managed to pull it off so far.



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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Wolf K.
On 2014-10-24 9:31 PM, »Q« wrote:

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> "Wolf K." <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of
>>> religion than for any other reason.
>>
>> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known
>> as ideologies.
>
> Following the traditions and beliefs one was raised to is a strong
> trait of humanity, but it's not fully hardwired.

Yes it is, and in the West that includes the belief that one should
stand up for one's beliefs, which of course leads to questioning what
one thinks the traditional beliefs are.

> The desire to make
> sense of it all (whatever that means) is probably hardwired, but
> nobody's managed to pull it off so far.

And non one ever will. But that's another discussion

I think the observation that all human societies are built around
certain categories is relevant, however. "Religion" is one of those
categories, but it's a difficult one to discuss because it's hard to get
outside one's personal experience, as the comments in this subthread
illustrate.

Other categories (a very incomplete list): In-group/out-group. Age and
gender-related roles. Governance. Law. Property. Social rank. Manners.
Taboo. And so on.

The contents of the categories vary quite a bit, (although not nearly as
much as cultural relativists believe), as do the rules of behaviour
surrounding them. Eg, all societies have rules around the acquisition of
property. Eg, all societies have rules about permissible and required
behaviours towards family and non-family members. Eg, all societies have
rules about how to acknowledge social rank, and how to use that
acknowledgement for insult. Eg, all societies have rules about proper
and improper language. Everyone knows (or should) that "gender" is a
social construct. And every society ever known has constructed "gender".
That these rules and constructs vary is often adduced as evidence that
they could (or should) be eliminated; but no one has yet found a society
without them.

Not convinced? Consider the difficulty of imagining a truly alien society.

Related: the repeated attempts to eliminate hurtful language will not
work. The new terms simply become hurtful in their turn. That's because
what's stigmatised is always something that most people feel is too far
outside their comfort zone. To understand this better, examine the
history of terms applied to people of limited intellectual and related
abilities.

Have good day,

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

J. P. Gilliver (John)
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
In message <[hidden email]>, Ron Hunter
<[hidden email]> writes:
>On 10/24/2014 7:46 PM, Wolf K. wrote:
>> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>>> than for any other reason.
>>
>> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
>> ideologies.

(As another said, the desire to explain - or at least find out -
probably is; I don't think religion as such is. If it is, I seem to have
gone against my hardwiring.)
>>
>People can, and will, make a religion of almost anything, a smartphone,
>an OS, a car brand, science, anything that you take on faith, without
>proof, and hold as important.
>
Although we joke about treating these as a religion (famous quote from a
[UK] football manager, when someone said the game isn't a matter of life
and death - "no, it's far more important than that"), we don't really.
Windows and Apple enthusiasts can get really heated, but I've never seen
even a hint of either of them suggesting that the others ought to be
killed. Ditto car brand enthusiasts.

I don't think there _is_ anything I take on faith. There _are_ things I
take as fairly _likely_ and about which I don't wish to expend the
(mental) energy to prove to myself to a greater degree (for example: the
amount of sugar in my diet keeps me overweight and has probably made me
diabetic), but even those I'd accept were wrong if new and
easy-to-understand evidence arose.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't even use words like 'environment'. People live in /the world/. The
'environment' is the kind of place where people wear 'apparel' instead of
clothes. - Billy Connolly, in Radio Times, 14-20 February 2009
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Bob Henson-4
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 25/10/2014 2:12 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 10/24/2014 2:53 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> On 24/10/2014 8:17 PM, EE wrote:
>>> Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>>>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>>>>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>>>>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>>>> >from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>>>>
>>>> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
>>>> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
>>>> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>>>>
>>>> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
>>>> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
>>>> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
>>>> very bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>>>> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
>>>> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
>>>> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
>>>> of life.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
>>>> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>>>>
>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>>> than for any other reason.
>>>
>>
>> Couldn't agree more. Religion's only purpose was to give a few
>> privileged and educated people a way to control the rest of us plebs,
>> either in conjunction with, or in a power struggle with, the
>> Kings/Emperors etc. Now we are educated to the point where we don't
>> believe in Fairies, Black Magic or any of the rest of the Mumbo Jumbo
>> fed to us by the various churches, we would be well advised to work for
>> the removal of all religions from the world, as they are only divisive
>> and set man against man and race against race. Islam is proving that, is
>> it not? Bob Dylan said it all in "With God on our Side".
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_God_on_Our_Side
>>
> If that is all it is for you, then you have my sympathy.
>

I don't need sympathy, Ron, I'm self sufficient. I don't need a god to
blame things on -  I take responsibility for my own life.

--
Bob    Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

You know you're old when "getting lucky" means finding your car in the
car park.
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Bob Henson-4
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
On 25/10/2014 1:46 AM, Wolf K. wrote:
> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
> [...]
>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>> than for any other reason.
>
> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
> ideologies.
>
Nurture, not nature. Very little is hard-wired apart from our basic
physiology and anatomy - just a few reflexes and that's it. Everything
else, we either learn or are brain-washed with. Religion and gods comes
under the brainwashing bit. That's the bit where 9/11 and all the other
tragedies come from.

--
Bob    Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Diplomacy - the art of letting someone else have your own way.
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Wolf K.
On 2014-10-25 7:16 AM, Bob Henson wrote:

> On 25/10/2014 1:46 AM, Wolf K. wrote:
>> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>>> than for any other reason.
>>
>> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
>> ideologies.
>>
> Nurture, not nature. Very little is hard-wired apart from our basic
> physiology and anatomy - just a few reflexes and that's it. Everything
> else, we either learn or are brain-washed with. Religion and gods comes
> under the brainwashing bit. That's the bit where 9/11 and all the other
> tragedies come from.

Your argument implies that with the proper nurture a human could be a horse.

You forget that nurture has to have something to work with. And you may
have missed the not-so-recent discovery that environmental inputs switch
genes on and off. In fact, without those inputs, the genes can't work.

Have a good day,

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Wolf K.
On 2014-10-25 9:02 AM, Charles Lindbergh wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:35:40 -0400, "Wolf K." <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-10-25 7:16 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> On 25/10/2014 1:46 AM, Wolf K. wrote:
>>>> On 2014-10-24 3:17 PM, EE wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>>>>> than for any other reason.
>>>>
>>>> It's hardwired into humans. That includes the secular religions known as
>>>> ideologies.
>>>>
>>> Nurture, not nature. Very little is hard-wired apart from our basic
>>> physiology and anatomy - just a few reflexes and that's it. Everything
>>> else, we either learn or are brain-washed with. Religion and gods comes
>>> under the brainwashing bit. That's the bit where 9/11 and all the other
>>> tragedies come from.
>>
>> Your argument implies that with the proper nurture a human could be a horse.
>
> Apparently, you never met my late mother-in-law.
>
>>
>> You forget that nurture has to have something to work with. And you may
>> have missed the not-so-recent discovery that environmental inputs switch
>> genes on and off. In fact, without those inputs, the genes can't work.
>
> Can you provide a citation to support your assertion?  I am unable to find
> anything definitive in Scientific American or via Google.

Look up "methylation", and "epigenetics", for starters. IMO, the
evidence is definitive: genes do not rule. It's never nature versus
nurture, it's always nature via nurture, and vice versa. It's not a
simple feedback loop, either, more like a multi-dimensional feed-back
network. Hard to get one's mind/imagination around.

An excellent (but already outdated) summary, very readable:
Nature via Nurture, Matt Ridley (2003)

Reviewed here (among about 1,000 other places):
http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep01188191.pdf
My take on the book:
http://kirkwood40.blogspot.ca/2013/08/matt-ridley-nature-via-nurture-2003.html

And there's always wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_versus_nurture#Interaction_of_genes_and_environment
NB:
"Heritability refers to the origins of differences between people.
Individual development, *even of highly heritable traits*, such as eye
color, depends on a range of environmental factors, from the other genes
in the organism, to physical variables such as temperature, oxygen
levels etc. during its development or ontogenesis." (Emphasis added).

BTW, Ridley's book is a summary of the 2003 state of knowledge. As such,
it was outdated as soon as published. Since then, the understanding of
the interplay between genetics and environment is much better
understood. Seems to me it's now at the stage of "We can tell the good
questions from the bad".

Have a good day,

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca
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Re: Condolences to all Canadians

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Bob Henson-4
On 10/25/2014 6:13 AM, Bob Henson wrote:

> On 25/10/2014 2:12 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 10/24/2014 2:53 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
>>> On 24/10/2014 8:17 PM, EE wrote:
>>>> Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2014 16:02:33 +1100, Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23/10/14 09:46, Charles Lindbergh wrote:
>>>>>>> Heartfelt condolences to all Canadians for the recent loss of life due to
>>>>>>> senseless, heinous acts of terrorism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ditto, and Charles, were you like me .... as soon as I heard about this
>>>>>> shooting, I was wondering if it was a wacko Muslim that had perpetrated
>>>>>> this?? (Note: I use the descriptive "wacko" to distinguish this person
>>>>> >from all the other, reasonable, Muslims!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, when I heard about the Canadian reservist being murdered with a car
>>>>> several days ago, I was fairly certain there were going to be additional acts of
>>>>> terror and they would have connections to the middle east.
>>>>>
>>>>> Canada and the USA have been very close allies for many years.  The fuck-wit
>>>>> terrorists do not understand, they do not terrorize us, they simply get us
>>>>> pissed-off.  Needless to say, pissing-off the USA, Canada and Australia is a
>>>>> very bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> The tide is changing, the left wing cowardice and political correctness of the
>>>>> Obama administration is on the way out.  When this naive, moronic POTUS leaves
>>>>> office, the USA and her allies will get back to the task of killing and
>>>>> otherwise maginalizing those who would attack our citizens and disrupt our way
>>>>> of life.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I have no respect for any religion and couldn't care less about a
>>>>> terrorists claimed religious affiliation.  Religion is simply a diversion.
>>>>>
>>>> Religion is outdated.  We do not need it to explain things any more.
>>>> There have been more aggressive acts perpetrated in the name of religion
>>>> than for any other reason.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Couldn't agree more. Religion's only purpose was to give a few
>>> privileged and educated people a way to control the rest of us plebs,
>>> either in conjunction with, or in a power struggle with, the
>>> Kings/Emperors etc. Now we are educated to the point where we don't
>>> believe in Fairies, Black Magic or any of the rest of the Mumbo Jumbo
>>> fed to us by the various churches, we would be well advised to work for
>>> the removal of all religions from the world, as they are only divisive
>>> and set man against man and race against race. Islam is proving that, is
>>> it not? Bob Dylan said it all in "With God on our Side".
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_God_on_Our_Side
>>>
>> If that is all it is for you, then you have my sympathy.
>>
>
> I don't need sympathy, Ron, I'm self sufficient. I don't need a god to
> blame things on -  I take responsibility for my own life.
>
Good for you.  Anyone who thinks he is self-sufficient needs a lot of
help, really.  Do you grow all your own food?  Do you make your clothes
from the cotton you grow, or wool you shear from your sheep?  Do you
grow your own chickens, kill them, pluck them, and cook them?  Still
think you are self-sufficient?  The point is that people really can't
KNOW when they might get help from a deity, even if they don't believe
in one.  This is, literally, unknowable.
I try to be self-reliant, NOT self-sufficient.  I enjoy the benefits of
civilization, and technology made possible by the efforts of others, and
accept that some help might come from a spiritual source, or not.

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