Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Luis
WaltS48 wrote:
> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>
> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>
> Setting Followup-To: m.general
>
A secret survey perhaps?
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Mark12547
In article <[hidden email]>, .@. says...
> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>
>

Alas, no place to respond to the author to let the author know the
survey is allowing only one mail provider, whereas some of us use both a
well-known provider and our ISP's email service and have multiple
accounts. (Me: two providers, a total of 3 accounts.)

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

The Real Bev
On 12/12/2017 11:43 AM, Mark12547 wrote:
> In article <[hidden email]>, .@. says...
>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>
> Alas, no place to respond to the author to let the author know the
> survey is allowing only one mail provider, whereas some of us use both a
> well-known provider and our ISP's email service and have multiple
> accounts. (Me: two providers, a total of 3 accounts.)

Does trashmail count?  I have 3 different mail servers besides
trashmail.  And usenet wasn't even mentioned, although I added it in
'Other'.  Who are these people and what do they want?

--
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   "I don't care who your father is! Drop that cross
    one more time and you're out of the parade!"
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

B00ze
On 2017-12-12 15:08, The Real Bev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/12/2017 11:43 AM, Mark12547 wrote:
>> In article <[hidden email]>, .@. says...
>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>
>> Alas, no place to respond to the author to let the author know the
>> survey is allowing only one mail provider, whereas some of us use both a
>> well-known provider and our ISP's email service and have multiple
>> accounts. (Me: two providers, a total of 3 accounts.)
>
> Does trashmail count?  I have 3 different mail servers besides
> trashmail.  And usenet wasn't even mentioned, although I added it in
> 'Other'.  Who are these people and what do they want?

Yeah, I added NNTP in "Other" as well. We need more people to do this. I
also mentioned that I do not want the UI "Modernized" since I use Themes
to return the UI to what it looked like in TB2/TB3.

Regards,

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

PietB-2
In reply to this post by Luis
TCW wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote:
>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>
> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
> somewhere where more eyes can see it!

Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?

-p

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

WaltS48-8
On 12/13/17 3:15 AM, PietB wrote:

> TCW wrote:
>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>
>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>
> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>
> -p
>

Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.

In the post he describes Thunderbird

>  as an Email, messaging, and calendar client

In the survey he has RSS Feed listed as one of the features. When I set
up an account for RSS feeds the default name is Blogs and News Feeds. I
think that counts as News.

There was a spot in the survey for informing the manager what other
Features are used. I also added newsgroups because it wasn't listed, I
also added the email providers I use, and what I would like to see in
Thunderbird.

I suppose I forgot to go on a rant about the simple poll, instead of
waiting for the

> more widely distributed one again in the near future.

Thanks for filling out the survey. If you think you could have done
better you should have applied for the position of Community Manager.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

PietB-2
WaltS48 wrote:

> PietB wrote:
>> TCW wrote:
>>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>>
>> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>
> Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
> on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.

Why do you think I'm sticking with an older version of TB and have
given up on updating? I use TB *exclusively* for News and for that
the current "outdated" version works fine. I tried a newer version
1 or 2 weeks ago and found an old bug where you can't properly edit
quotes still present. So back again to the current *working* version.
Really, News is old, very old, and needs no further development, just
fixing bugs introduced by "development". Getting TB to work properly
is way more important then "moving forward".

The same goes for Firefox. Most of the "moving forward" had led to
annoying lots of people, lesser functionality, and mainly more bells
and whistles. I had stopped at 52.5.2 ESR, but FF is giving me so
many headaches (see my postings in m.s.firefox) that I've now given
up on Firefox and moved to Pale Moon. With a sigh of relief. And yes,
it works like a charm with one profile shared across pc's.

So yes, I do have plenty of reason to be critical, if not rightout
negative, about "moving forward".

> Thanks for filling out the survey.

I tried, but surveymonkey grinded to a halt.

> If you think you could have done better you should have applied for
> the position of Community Manager.

In my active working life I've done more than a fair share for the
digital world. I've made my contributions/advices/help in the FF
and TB newsgroups. And yes, I'd like to thank you in particular for
all the advices and help you've given.
But at my age I'm not going to apply for whatever position related
to the euphemism "moving forward".
Despite all the above I'll keep lurking around in these newsgroups.

-p

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

5
On 12/13/2017 09:21 AM, PietB wrote:

> WaltS48 wrote:
>> PietB wrote:
>>> TCW wrote:
>>>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>>>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>>>
>>> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>>
>> Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
>> on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.
>
> Why do you think I'm sticking with an older version of TB and have
> given up on updating? I use TB *exclusively* for News

Same here. Stunning that the new Community Manager is unaware that TB is
a newsreader and you have to write that in yourself in the "Other" category.

<snip>

>> Thanks for filling out the survey.
>
> I tried, but surveymonkey grinded to a halt.

I switched back to reading newsgroups while waiting, waiting... for
surveymonkey to respond after clicking the Done button.
When I returned, there was the "We're sorry!" page on my screen.
Not going to waste time on it again.

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

The Real Bev
On 12/13/2017 10:12 AM, 5 wrote:

> On 12/13/2017 09:21 AM, PietB wrote:
>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>> PietB wrote:
>>>> TCW wrote:
>>>>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>>>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>>>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>>>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>>>>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>>>>
>>>> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>>>
>>> Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
>>> on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.
>>
>> Why do you think I'm sticking with an older version of TB and have
>> given up on updating? I use TB *exclusively* for News
>
> Same here. Stunning that the new Community Manager is unaware that TB is
> a newsreader and you have to write that in yourself in the "Other" category.

I stuck at TB38, but I'd lost valuable stuff since NS .9 and decided I
didn't want to lose any more.  If they'd stick to security updates (Are
there any?  I really don't worry much about "security") and just leave
the UI alone more people might be happier.

> <snip>
>
>>> Thanks for filling out the survey.
>>
>> I tried, but surveymonkey grinded to a halt.
>
> I switched back to reading newsgroups while waiting, waiting... for
> surveymonkey to respond after clicking the Done button.
> When I returned, there was the "We're sorry!" page on my screen.
> Not going to waste time on it again.

A lot of people design surveys who would be better off digging ditches
or greeting Walmart patrons.

--
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    You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when
    something closes the door from the inside.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 12/13/2017 7:20 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 12/13/17 3:15 AM, PietB wrote:
>> TCW wrote:
>>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>>
>>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>>
>> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>>
>> -p
>>
>
> Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
> on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.
>
> In the post he describes Thunderbird
>
>>  as an Email, messaging, and calendar client
>
> In the survey he has RSS Feed listed as one of the features. When I set
> up an account for RSS feeds the default name is Blogs and News Feeds. I
> think that counts as News.
>
> There was a spot in the survey for informing the manager what other
> Features are used. I also added newsgroups because it wasn't listed, I
> also added the email providers I use, and what I would like to see in
> Thunderbird.
>
> I suppose I forgot to go on a rant about the simple poll, instead of
> waiting for the
>
>> more widely distributed one again in the near future.
>
> Thanks for filling out the survey. If you think you could have done
> better you should have applied for the position of Community Manager.

Well, news, as in an RSS feed is like 'news' you get in a newspaper.
When TB users talk about 'news' we mean NNTP access, get it?

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

PietB-2
Ron Hunter wrote:
> When TB users talk about 'news' we mean NNTP access, get it?

In 1982 I got News via UUCP. NNTP was nowhere in sight yet.
As was TB. So when I talk about News, I mean News, no matter
what protocol is used to get it to me.

-p

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Desiree-11
In reply to this post by 5
On 12/13/2017 8:12 AM, 5 wrote:

> On 12/13/2017 09:21 AM, PietB wrote:
>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>> PietB wrote:
>>>> TCW wrote:
>>>>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>>> Thought I would share this blog post by the new Community Manager for
>>>>>> Thunderbird. I found it in the TB meeting notes from Nov. 14th, and
>>>>>> don't recall seeing it anywhere.
>>>>>> <http://ryanleesipes.me/a-new-future-for-thunderbird/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for this. Filled out survey as well. This need to be published
>>>>> somewhere where more eyes can see it!
>>>>
>>>> Why? A "Community Manager" who apparently has never heard about News?
>>>
>>> Why do you have to be critical instead of happy that there is progress
>>> on moving Thunderbird forward in it's development.
>>
>> Why do you think I'm sticking with an older version of TB and have
>> given up on updating? I use TB *exclusively* for News
>
> Same here. Stunning that the new Community Manager is unaware that TB is
> a newsreader and you have to write that in yourself in the "Other" category.
>
> <snip>
>
>>> Thanks for filling out the survey.
>>
>> I tried, but surveymonkey grinded to a halt.
>
> I switched back to reading newsgroups while waiting, waiting... for
> surveymonkey to respond after clicking the Done button.
> When I returned, there was the "We're sorry!" page on my screen.
> Not going to waste time on it again.
>
That survey does not work in current versions of the browsers I have.
But I deliberately keep ver 26.5 of Pale Moon (based off Fx 24) as
almost all websites work great with it.  I had no problems doing the
survey using Pale Moon 26.5.  Thunderbird in versions 45 and 52.5 is
horrible.  I can barely use it as my screen does not paint correctly and
I get many black screens.  I upgraded from TB 24.7 that worked great
with no problems.  TB 52.5 has nothing of importance that was not in
24.7 and the latter worked great while the latest version is a huge mess.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

tanstaafl-2
On 12/14/2017, 5:24:28 AM, Desiree <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thunderbird in versions 45 and 52.5 is horrible.

Actually, latest versions are pretty great, and getting better all the time.

> I can barely use it as my screen does not paint correctly and I get
> many black screens.
So, you have some kind of hardware problem on your computer? How is that
Thunderbird's fault?

> I upgraded from TB 24.7 that worked great with no problems. TB 52.5
> has nothing of importance that was not in 24.7

Ummm... try lots and LOTS of of security AND bugfixes. The composer is
much better now, for one.

> and the latter worked great while the latest version is a huge mess
Again, your description of 'huge mess' above seems to be more indicative
of a computer problem on your end, not something endemic to Thunderbird
itself.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

5
In reply to this post by Desiree-11
On 12/14/2017 02:24 AM, Desiree wrote:
> That survey does not work in current versions of the browsers I have. But
> I deliberately keep ver 26.5 of Pale Moon (based off Fx 24) as almost
> all websites work great with it.  I had no problems doing the survey
> using Pale Moon 26.5.

I used Firefox 38 for the survey. Someone contracted with the wrong
outfit to do surveys.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

WaltS48-8
On 12/14/17 12:54 PM, 5 wrote:
> On 12/14/2017 02:24 AM, Desiree wrote:
>> That survey does not work in current versions of the browsers I have. But
>> I deliberately keep ver 26.5 of Pale Moon (based off Fx 24) as almost
>> all websites work great with it.  I had no problems doing the survey
>> using Pale Moon 26.5.
>
> I used Firefox 38 for the survey. Someone contracted with the wrong
> outfit to do surveys.

I used Firefox Nightly 59.0a1 with no problem.



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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Desiree-11
In reply to this post by Desiree-11
On 12/14/2017 5:46 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

> On 12/14/2017, 5:24:28 AM, Desiree <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thunderbird in versions 45 and 52.5 is horrible.
>
> Actually, latest versions are pretty great, and getting better all the time.
>
>> I can barely use it as my screen does not paint correctly and I get
>> many black screens.
> So, you have some kind of hardware problem on your computer? How is that
> Thunderbird's fault?
>
>> I upgraded from TB 24.7 that worked great with no problems. TB 52.5
>> has nothing of importance that was not in 24.7
>
> Ummm... try lots and LOTS of of security AND bugfixes. The composer is
> much better now, for one.
>
>> and the latter worked great while the latest version is a huge mess
> Again, your description of 'huge mess' above seems to be more indicative
> of a computer problem on your end, not something endemic to Thunderbird
> itself.
>
I don't have a hardware problem.  Everything works fine except TB 45 and
52. TB worked fine on 24.7.  I only upgraded about a month ago and I
should not have.  There is nothing in the latest versions that are
useful to me that is not in 24.7.  (And there is an unneeded calendar
now that I have to remove).

I suspect a conflict between Windowblinds and the current versions of
TB.  I require Windowblinds since I don't have Windows 7 where it would
not be necessary but is necessary on Windows 8 and 10. There is negative
history between Mozilla products and Windowblinds.  The "culprit" is
most likely Microsoft and the changes they made starting with Windows 8
that give gray font everywhere (which is way too tiring on the eyes)
instead of black necessitating Windowblinds so I can use Verdana Bold
everywhere which on Windows 8 doesn't bold but gives me normal (on all
OSes prior to Windows 8) black font and allows me to choose the font for
Windows as I always could within Windows before Windows 8.  Now to do it
in Windows 8 or 10 you must use a third party product.

I rarely use Composer.  I have TB to register at forums, receive email
from websites and to use newsgroups.  I don't do personal email because
I can't be sure the recipient is not using Gmail since many deliberately
obscure that fact (as they know persons who care about privacy will not
allow Gmail).
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Disaster Master
On 12/15/2017, 5:47:04 AM, Desiree <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I suspect a conflict between Windowblinds and the current versions of
> TB.  I require Windowblinds since I don't have Windows 7 where it would
> not be necessary but is necessary on Windows 8 and 10.

So use the much better and truly free ClassicShell, what I've been using
since Windows 7 (I prefer the old Windows 2000 style Start Menu).

> There is negative history between Mozilla products and Windowblinds.

Yet you continue to use it - and blame Mozilla?
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

Desiree-11
In reply to this post by Desiree-11
On 12/15/2017 4:48 AM, Disaster Master wrote:

> On 12/15/2017, 5:47:04 AM, Desiree <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I suspect a conflict between Windowblinds and the current versions of
>> TB.  I require Windowblinds since I don't have Windows 7 where it would
>> not be necessary but is necessary on Windows 8 and 10.
>
> So use the much better and truly free ClassicShell, what I've been using
> since Windows 7 (I prefer the old Windows 2000 style Start Menu).
>
>> There is negative history between Mozilla products and Windowblinds.
>
> Yet you continue to use it - and blame Mozilla?
>
Yes, and rightly so as Mozilla is violating the ADA (and even worse
violations for those who are blind).  I require Windowblinds in order to
use a computer with Windows 8 or 10.  Microsoft is also to blame as the
same monitor used with XP Pro gives black font but on Windows 8 and 10
it can only provide gray font.  This is problem for many who use
desktops with Windows 8/10.
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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

PietB-2
In reply to this post by Desiree-11
Desiree wrote:
> But I deliberately keep ver 26.5 of Pale Moon

Just curious: why that version? I'm now on 27.6.2 and it
still works like a charm.

-p

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Re: A New Future for Thunderbird

WaltS48-8
In reply to this post by Desiree-11
On 12/16/17 5:46 AM, Desiree wrote:

> On 12/15/2017 4:48 AM, Disaster Master wrote:
>> On 12/15/2017, 5:47:04 AM, Desiree <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I suspect a conflict between Windowblinds and the current versions of
>>> TB.  I require Windowblinds since I don't have Windows 7 where it
>>> would not be necessary but is necessary on Windows 8 and 10.
>>
>> So use the much better and truly free ClassicShell, what I've been using
>> since Windows 7 (I prefer the old Windows 2000 style Start Menu).
>>
>>> There is negative history between Mozilla products and Windowblinds.
>>
>> Yet you continue to use it - and blame Mozilla?
>>
> Yes, and rightly so as Mozilla is violating the ADA (and even worse
> violations for those who are blind).  I require Windowblinds in order to
> use a computer with Windows 8 or 10.  Microsoft is also to blame as the
> same monitor used with XP Pro gives black font but on Windows 8 and 10
> it can only provide gray font.  This is problem for many who use
> desktops with Windows 8/10.


Firefox accessibility features

<http://mzl.la/1BAQLaS>

The Accessibility Service Indicator

<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-services#firefox:win10:fx57>

Reader View

<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-reader-view-clutter-free-web-pages>

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