Problem with this server?

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Problem with this server?

clay-14
Is the server or this NG bjorken?
I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
plain text from like five years ago...
Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
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Re: Problem with this server?

JoeS-3
On 8/17/2010 7:16 PM, clay wrote:
> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs plain text from like five years ago...
> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.

HTML vs. Plaintext discussions never fail to create a lot of rancor.
Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a Gecko product, the actual display window is HTML.
Take a look at this DOMI capture of your previous post:
http://yfrog.com/bfplaintextdisplayg
Look at that,...so many CPU cycles going to waste. And all those wasted kilowatts.
Maybe we should be buying carbon credits for using a Gecko product. :)

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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by clay-14
clay wrote:
> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
> plain text from like five years ago...
> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.

Ha!

It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.

<snip a whole buncha' lines describing what I mean by that>



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Re: Problem with this server?

»Q«
In reply to this post by JoeS-3
In <news:[hidden email]>,
JoeS <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a
> Gecko product, the actual display window is HTML.

When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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Re: Problem with this server?

Tarkus-3
In reply to this post by clay-14
On 8/17/2010 4:16 PM, clay wrote:
> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
> plain text from like five years ago...
> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.

Heh.  I'm pretty sure five years from now you'll see the same posts.
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Re: Problem with this server?

Ken Whiton
In reply to this post by »Q«
*-* On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, at 23:31:07 -0500,
*-* In Article <[hidden email]>,
*-* »Q« wrote
*-* About Re: Problem with this server?

> In <news:[hidden email]>,
> JoeS <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a
>> Gecko product, the actual display window is HTML.
>
> When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

     ... Or a thumb. :-D

                                        Ken Whiton
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Re: Problem with this server?

Ed Mullen
In reply to this post by JoeS-3
JoeS wrote:
> On 8/17/2010 7:16 PM, clay wrote:
>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>> plain text from like five years ago...
>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>
> HTML vs. Plaintext discussions never fail to create a lot of rancor.
> Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a Gecko
> product, the actual display window is HTML.

Huh?  Not unless you make that selection.


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a T-shirt with bloodstains all over it, maybe your laundry isn't your
biggest problem.
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Re: Problem with this server?

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote:

> clay wrote:
>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>> plain text from like five years ago...
>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>
> Ha!
>
> It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
> coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.
>
> <snip a whole buncha' lines describing what I mean by that>
>
>
>
They should, but the Plain texters (is that a word) proselytize to the
htmlers about the sins of their ways.


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Re: Problem with this server?

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Tarkus-3
Tarkus wrote:
> On 8/17/2010 4:16 PM, clay wrote:
>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>> plain text from like five years ago...
>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>
> Heh.  I'm pretty sure five years from now you'll see the same posts.
No the exact same post. But the same subject.

No by then. by popular demand of the consuming audience not (us) it will
have changed to all HTML. Because they will want their internet
experience to be just like their web experience. How many Plain Text
websites you see lately.

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Re: Problem with this server?

Tarkus-3
On 8/18/2010 9:10 AM, Phillip Jones wrote:

> Tarkus wrote:
>> On 8/17/2010 4:16 PM, clay wrote:
>>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>>> plain text from like five years ago...
>>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>>
>> Heh.  I'm pretty sure five years from now you'll see the same posts.
> No the exact same post. But the same subject.
>
> No by then. by popular demand of the consuming audience not (us) it will
> have changed to all HTML. Because they will want their internet
> experience to be just like their web experience. How many Plain Text
> websites you see lately.

"They" don't use newsgroups, though.  As long as newsgroups are around,
I don't expect them (nor this ongoing to debate) to change.
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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
Phillip Jones wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
>> coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.

> They should, but the Plain texters (is that a word) proselytize to the
> htmlers about the sins of their ways.

The html/ers want to change the state - the default behaviors, the
accepted norm - of email and discussion newsgroups.

The plaintexters do not want that.

Html is for webpages and webforums, not default email or default newsgroups.



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Re: Problem with this server?

PhillipJones
Mike Easter wrote:

> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>>> It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
>>> coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.
>
>> They should, but the Plain texters (is that a word) proselytize to the
>> htmlers about the sins of their ways.
>
> The html/ers want to change the state - the default behaviors, the
> accepted norm - of email and discussion newsgroups.
>
> The plaintexters do not want that.
>
> Html is for webpages and webforums, not default email or default newsgroups.
>
>
>

See what I say.
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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
Phillip Jones wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
>>>> coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.
>>
>>> They should, but the Plain texters (is that a word) proselytize to the
>>> htmlers about the sins of their ways.
>>
>> The html/ers want to change the state - the default behaviors, the
>> accepted norm - of email and discussion newsgroups.
>>
>> The plaintexters do not want that.
>>
>> Html is for webpages and webforums, not default email or default
>> newsgroups.

> See what I say.

The wish to change the 'turf' of the plaintexter (default email, default
news) into html, because the html/ers prefer html, from a religious war
perspective, is the invasion of a foreign religion.

The html religion has its own places of 'worship'. It shouldn't be
invading some others' space.

It is the html proselytization that is the problem, not the
plaintexters. The plaintexters want to maintain the status quo.

In another thread you wished for the conversion of plaintext turf to html.


Phillip Jones wrote:
> No by then. by popular demand of the consuming audience not (us) it
> will have changed to all HTML. Because they will want their internet
> experience to be just like their web experience. How many Plain Text
> websites you see lately.



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Re: Problem with this server?

Larry Gusaas-4
  On 2010/08/18 12:13 PM  Mike Easter wrote:
> The plaintexters want to maintain the status quo.

That reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition.

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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
Larry Gusaas wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> The plaintexters want to maintain the status quo.
>
> That reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition.

How so?


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Re: Problem with this server?

JoeS-3
In reply to this post by Ed Mullen
On 8/18/2010 11:44 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

> JoeS wrote:
>> On 8/17/2010 7:16 PM, clay wrote:
>>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>>> plain text from like five years ago...
>>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>>
>> HTML vs. Plaintext discussions never fail to create a lot of rancor.
>> Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a Gecko
>> product, the actual display window is HTML.
>
> Huh? Not unless you make that selection.
>
>
No, it doesn't matter what your view options are.
The gecko rendering is in a DOM window, exactly as I showed in the screenshot.

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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
JoeS wrote:

> Ed Mullen wrote:
>> JoeS wrote:
>>> On 8/17/2010 7:16 PM, clay wrote:
>>>> Is the server or this NG bjorken?
>>>> I looked in today and I see all these posts sniveling about HTML vs
>>>> plain text from like five years ago...
>>>> Must'a fell into the wayback machine.
>>>
>>> HTML vs. Plaintext discussions never fail to create a lot of rancor.
>>> Funny thing is, even if you send in plaintext, if you are using a Gecko
>>> product, the actual display window is HTML.
>>
>> Huh? Not unless you make that selection.
>>
>>
> No, it doesn't matter what your view options are.
> The gecko rendering is in a DOM window, exactly as I showed in the
> screenshot.
>
I don't understand what you mean to show or prove in the screenshot.

I see some kind of tool/application with a bar which says "Document -
DOM Nodes" and then I see that tool accessing a news message because its
addressline says 'news://news.mozilla.org:119/<a MID>

..where a MID is a message ID presumably of a plaintext message which
that tool is rendering into some elaborate 'form' which I don't recognize.

I don't doubt that Tbird doesn't just 'render' plaintext as plaintext,
because it manipulates format=flowed into a flowed and 'marked up' form
unless you turn that function off, and it also renders plaintext markups
such as underline, slash, & asterisk - none of which I really care for
or about - but I don't have the understanding which you are trying to
convey to us about what happens with the DOM.

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Re: Problem with this server?

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote:

> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>> Phillip Jones wrote:
>>>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It seems to me that the two religions should be able to peacefully
>>>>> coexist, even tho' their philosophies differ.
>>>
>>>> They should, but the Plain texters (is that a word) proselytize to the
>>>> htmlers about the sins of their ways.
>>>
>>> The html/ers want to change the state - the default behaviors, the
>>> accepted norm - of email and discussion newsgroups.
>>>
>>> The plaintexters do not want that.
>>>
>>> Html is for webpages and webforums, not default email or default
>>> newsgroups.
>
>> See what I say.
>
> The wish to change the 'turf' of the plaintexter (default email, default
> news) into html, because the html/ers prefer html, from a religious war
> perspective, is the invasion of a foreign religion.
>
> The html religion has its own places of 'worship'. It shouldn't be
> invading some others' space.
>
> It is the html proselytization that is the problem, not the
> plaintexters. The plaintexters want to maintain the status quo.
>
> In another thread you wished for the conversion of plaintext turf to html.
>
>
> Phillip Jones wrote:
>> No by then. by popular demand of the consuming audience not (us) it
>> will have changed to all HTML. Because they will want their internet
>> experience to be just like their web experience. How many Plain Text
>> websites you see lately.
>
>
>

  I haven't once demanded anyone here use HTML. I have said I prefer
Html due to vision problems,

And you should notice that except when I am testing as part of a reply
her, I post in Plain text.

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Re: Problem with this server?

JoeS-3
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
On 8/18/2010 5:58 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> I don't understand what you mean to show or prove in the screenshot.
I'm not trying to "prove" anything, just trying to show that the Gecko rendering engine is basically a DOM window, which is, in and of itself, an HTML representation of sent data, whatever the original format is. There is no real plaintext in the Gecko
rendering engine. Has nothing to do with what was actually sent. Just thought it was ironic that plaintext was actually viewed with HTML tools.


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Re: Problem with this server?

Mike Easter-2
JoeS wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> I don't understand what you mean to show or prove in the screenshot.

> I'm not trying to "prove" anything, just trying to show that the Gecko
> rendering engine is basically a DOM window, which is, in and of itself,
> an HTML representation of sent data, whatever the original format is.
> There is no real plaintext in the Gecko rendering engine. Has nothing to
> do with what was actually sent. Just thought it was ironic that
> plaintext was actually viewed with HTML tools.

How do other newsagent 'renderers' or editors accomplish the combined
duties of displaying plaintext including format=flowed?

Does OE use IE's html rendering engine to display plaintext? Or, in a
more general concept, is it typical that mail or news agents which
display plaintext or html use an html rendering engine to do so -
display/render the plaintext?


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