Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

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Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
As Salaam Aleikum!

Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.

Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
(latest version) as browser.


Cul8er alligator!
gaea - feminist & chunkawakan
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> As Salaam Aleikum!
>
> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
>
> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
> (latest version) as browser.
>

What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
Dave

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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > As Salaam Aleikum!
> >
> > Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
> > version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
> > correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
> > SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
> > install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
> > as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
> > do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
> > program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
> > data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
> > next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
> > didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
> > backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
> >
> > Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
> > Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
> > only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
> > is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
> > existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
> > after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
> > mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
> > this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
> > SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
> > above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
> > the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
> > work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
> > so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
> > the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
> > loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
> > fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
> > some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
> > (latest version) as browser.
> >
>
> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
> Dave
>

Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL <dir name>
which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
through the whole <dir name> structure, removing files and dirs as it
goes, lastly it removes the <dir name> itself PROVIDED that you issue
the command in a dir ABOVE <dir name> which I did. Didn't touch any
registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.

If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
with the SM 2.7.12 install.



Cul8er alligator!
gaea - feminist & chunkawakan
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       Team OS/2      e-mail:  [hidden email] (Primary)
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
>>> As Salaam Aleikum!
>>>
>>> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
>>> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
>>> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
>>> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
>>> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
>>> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
>>> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
>>> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
>>> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
>>> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
>>> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
>>> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
>>> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
>>> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
>>> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
>>> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
>>> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
>>> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
>>> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
>>> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
>>> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
>>> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
>>> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
>>> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
>>> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
>>> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
>>> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
>>> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
>>> (latest version) as browser.
>>>
>>
>> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
>> Dave
>>
>
> Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL<dir name>
> which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
> through the whole<dir name>  structure, removing files and dirs as it
> goes, lastly it removes the<dir name>  itself PROVIDED that you issue
> the command in a dir ABOVE<dir name>  which I did. Didn't touch any
> registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
> Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.
>
> If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
> happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
> with the SM 2.7.12 install.
>

No older backup? This is why it is often better just to move things out
of the way rather then depending on the backup :)
You could try, from a command prompt, set MOZILLA_HOME= then running
SeaMonkey, just to see if it starts. As far as I know everything profile
related should be stored in %MOZILLA_HOME%
Dave

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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 18:32:05 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >
> >> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >>> As Salaam Aleikum!
> >>>
> >>> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
> >>> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
> >>> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
> >>> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
> >>> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
> >>> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
> >>> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
> >>> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
> >>> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
> >>> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
> >>> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
> >>> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
> >>> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
> >>> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
> >>> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
> >>> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
> >>> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
> >>> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
> >>> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
> >>> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
> >>> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
> >>> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
> >>> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
> >>> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
> >>> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
> >>> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
> >>> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
> >>> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
> >>> (latest version) as browser.
> >>>
> >>
> >> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
> > Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL<dir name>
> > which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
> > through the whole<dir name>  structure, removing files and dirs as it
> > goes, lastly it removes the<dir name>  itself PROVIDED that you issue
> > the command in a dir ABOVE<dir name>  which I did. Didn't touch any
> > registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
> > Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.
> >
> > If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
> > happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
> > with the SM 2.7.12 install.
> >
>
> No older backup? This is why it is often better just to move things out
> of the way rather then depending on the backup :)
> You could try, from a command prompt, set MOZILLA_HOME= then running
> SeaMonkey, just to see if it starts. As far as I know everything profile
> related should be stored in %MOZILLA_HOME%
> Dave
>

Do you really mean that (from a command line) first issues a set
MOZILLA_HOME= without anyything after the equal sign, and then enters
seamonkey.exe in the dir where the new version resides, and yes, I have
moved over the following files to the new SM directory:

fntcfg2.dll
fntcfg2.xqs
freetyp2.dll
freetyp2.xqs

If I understand you correctly is that by entering a SET MOZILLA_HOME=
statement before entering seamonkey.exe, I would temporarily clear out
the default mozilla home defined in config.sys as SET
MOZILLA_HOME=Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA? And that would perhaps solve the
install problem?



Cul8er alligator!
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--
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
In reply to this post by Dave Yeo-3
On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 18:32:05 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >
> >> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >>> As Salaam Aleikum!
> >>>
> >>> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
> >>> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
> >>> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
> >>> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
> >>> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
> >>> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
> >>> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
> >>> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
> >>> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
> >>> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
> >>> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
> >>> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
> >>> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
> >>> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
> >>> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
> >>> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
> >>> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
> >>> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
> >>> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
> >>> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
> >>> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
> >>> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
> >>> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
> >>> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
> >>> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
> >>> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
> >>> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
> >>> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
> >>> (latest version) as browser.
> >>>
> >>
> >> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
> > Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL<dir name>
> > which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
> > through the whole<dir name>  structure, removing files and dirs as it
> > goes, lastly it removes the<dir name>  itself PROVIDED that you issue
> > the command in a dir ABOVE<dir name>  which I did. Didn't touch any
> > registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
> > Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.
> >
> > If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
> > happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
> > with the SM 2.7.12 install.
> >
>
> No older backup? This is why it is often better just to move things out
> of the way rather then depending on the backup :)
> You could try, from a command prompt, set MOZILLA_HOME= then running
> SeaMonkey, just to see if it starts. As far as I know everything profile
> related should be stored in %MOZILLA_HOME%
> Dave
>

I tried the method you recommended above - the new SM 2.7.2 started but
did NOT do any migration of the old SMPmW118 profile and mail data but
instead created a brand-new profile under a newly-created 'mozilla' dir
below the seamonkey-2.7.2 dir where the code lives. So this new spurious
profile I nuked, then setting back SET
MOZILLA_HOME=y:\mozilla.org\mozilla (exactly as it appears in
config.sys) and typed seamonkey but was greeted by the now infamous
message "Seamonkey is already running, but not responding. To open a new
window, you must first close the existing seamonkey process, or restart
the system.". I even tried to invoke seamonkey.exe with the -migration
parameter, but that didn't wash at all. When I *first* ran the new SM
2.7.2 it sniffed out my old SMPmW118 profile and mail data and migrated
them successfully to a brand-new location (which I then foolishly
nuked). There must be a way of unscramble this mess short of sniffing
out any lingering traces of the first successful install, nuking them in
some way, and then try to do a clean install/migration of the new SM
2.7.2


Cul8er alligator!
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 18:32:05 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
>>>>> As Salaam Aleikum!
>>>>>
>>>>> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
>>>>> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
>>>>> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
>>>>> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
>>>>> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
>>>>> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
>>>>> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
>>>>> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
>>>>> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
>>>>> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
>>>>> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
>>>>> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
>>>>> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
>>>>> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
>>>>> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
>>>>> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
>>>>> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
>>>>> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
>>>>> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
>>>>> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
>>>>> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
>>>>> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
>>>>> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
>>>>> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
>>>>> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
>>>>> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
>>>>> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
>>>>> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
>>>>> (latest version) as browser.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL<dir name>
>>> which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
>>> through the whole<dir name>   structure, removing files and dirs as it
>>> goes, lastly it removes the<dir name>   itself PROVIDED that you issue
>>> the command in a dir ABOVE<dir name>   which I did. Didn't touch any
>>> registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
>>> Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.
>>>
>>> If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
>>> happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
>>> with the SM 2.7.12 install.
>>>
>>
>> No older backup? This is why it is often better just to move things out
>> of the way rather then depending on the backup :)
>> You could try, from a command prompt, set MOZILLA_HOME= then running
>> SeaMonkey, just to see if it starts. As far as I know everything profile
>> related should be stored in %MOZILLA_HOME%
>> Dave
>>
>
> I tried the method you recommended above - the new SM 2.7.2 started but
> did NOT do any migration of the old SMPmW118 profile and mail data but
> instead created a brand-new profile under a newly-created 'mozilla' dir
> below the seamonkey-2.7.2 dir where the code lives. So this new spurious
> profile I nuked,

OK this shows everything besides your profile is good.

> then setting back SET
> MOZILLA_HOME=y:\mozilla.org\mozilla (exactly as it appears in
> config.sys) and typed seamonkey but was greeted by the now infamous
> message "Seamonkey is already running, but not responding. To open a new
> window, you must first close the existing seamonkey process, or restart
> the system.". I even tried to invoke seamonkey.exe with the -migration
> parameter, but that didn't wash at all. When I *first* ran the new SM
> 2.7.2 it sniffed out my old SMPmW118 profile and mail data and migrated
> them successfully to a brand-new location (which I then foolishly
> nuked). There must be a way of unscramble this mess short of sniffing
> out any lingering traces of the first successful install, nuking them in
> some way, and then try to do a clean install/migration of the new SM
> 2.7.2

Have you tried opening SeaMonkey -profilemanager then pointing it the
same location as the profile you nuked?
Perhaps you need to delete %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla\registry.dat. After
doing this you might need to use -profilemanager with Firefox etc to
repoint it at their profile
Dave
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 03:32:39 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 18:32:05 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >
> >> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2013 04:12:58 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>   wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >>>>> As Salaam Aleikum!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Last night (thursday night) I successfully upgraded my old SeaMonkey/2
> >>>>> version (SMPmW118) to 2.7.12 - first I unzipped the archive in the
> >>>>> correct place in the Mozilla.org dir tree, then renamed it
> >>>>> SeaMonkey_2.7.12 - and ran seamonkey.exe. It took a good long time to
> >>>>> install and migrate all data to a new profile, but then it came up nice
> >>>>> as you please. But I was a little annoyed by some stuff so I decided to
> >>>>> do a reinstall during Friday afternoon (=yesterday) when my backup
> >>>>> program, Ba2Pro/2 had done a DIFF backup which contained the new profile
> >>>>> data. So I nuked the profile data and tried to reinstall. No joy, so I
> >>>>> next tried to restore the profile data from the DIFF backup but Ba2Pro/2
> >>>>> didn't work as it should - it refused to do a restore from the Diff
> >>>>> backup, bombing as soon I selected the Diffrntl.cat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, I tried to install the new SeaMonkey by going into the
> >>>>> Seamonkey_2.7.12 dir and just typing seamonkey.exe, but that resulted
> >>>>> only in the following error message: "SeaMonkey is already running, but
> >>>>> is not responding. To open a new window, you must first close the
> >>>>> existing SeaMonkey process, or restart your system". So I did a reboot
> >>>>> after I've deleted the autostart of the old SM (which I ran in mail-only
> >>>>> mode) plus the FF as I've used as a browser for a while, the reason for
> >>>>> this is that certain function on www.tradera.com didn't work in the old
> >>>>> SMPmW118 version of SM/2 and tried to install it again. No luck, the
> >>>>> above error message just popped up again, the install didn't even got to
> >>>>> the first check-station, and typing "seamonkey.exe -no_remote" didn't
> >>>>> work either. So how do I proceed from here? Have I mucked up my system
> >>>>> so much that I now can't migrate my old SM/2 to the newest? Btw, after
> >>>>> the first migration try, I tested it regarding some functions, namely
> >>>>> loggin in to my internet bank and my library accout and they went just
> >>>>> fine, no fuss or muss - in the old SM/2 logins there didn't work for
> >>>>> some reason, that's why I switched to SM in mail-only mode plus FF
> >>>>> (latest version) as browser.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> What exactly did you delete when you nuked the profile data?
> >>>> Dave
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Just the profiles directory tree using a command called XDEL<dir name>
> >>> which does just that: nukes every file and subdirectory - it recurses
> >>> through the whole<dir name>   structure, removing files and dirs as it
> >>> goes, lastly it removes the<dir name>   itself PROVIDED that you issue
> >>> the command in a dir ABOVE<dir name>   which I did. Didn't touch any
> >>> registry.dat files or .ini files as that could really fuck up the whole
> >>> Seamonkey and FF stuff beyond repair.
> >>>
> >>> If I had been able to do a DIFF restore, then this mess wouldn't have
> >>> happened as the profile saved on the DIFF backup was working perfectly
> >>> with the SM 2.7.12 install.
> >>>
> >>
> >> No older backup? This is why it is often better just to move things out
> >> of the way rather then depending on the backup :)
> >> You could try, from a command prompt, set MOZILLA_HOME= then running
> >> SeaMonkey, just to see if it starts. As far as I know everything profile
> >> related should be stored in %MOZILLA_HOME%
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
> > I tried the method you recommended above - the new SM 2.7.2 started but
> > did NOT do any migration of the old SMPmW118 profile and mail data but
> > instead created a brand-new profile under a newly-created 'mozilla' dir
> > below the seamonkey-2.7.2 dir where the code lives. So this new spurious
> > profile I nuked,
>
> OK this shows everything besides your profile is good.
>
> > then setting back SET
> > MOZILLA_HOME=y:\mozilla.org\mozilla (exactly as it appears in
> > config.sys) and typed seamonkey but was greeted by the now infamous
> > message "Seamonkey is already running, but not responding. To open a new
> > window, you must first close the existing seamonkey process, or restart
> > the system.". I even tried to invoke seamonkey.exe with the -migration
> > parameter, but that didn't wash at all. When I *first* ran the new SM
> > 2.7.2 it sniffed out my old SMPmW118 profile and mail data and migrated
> > them successfully to a brand-new location (which I then foolishly
> > nuked). There must be a way of unscramble this mess short of sniffing
> > out any lingering traces of the first successful install, nuking them in
> > some way, and then try to do a clean install/migration of the new SM
> > 2.7.2
>
> Have you tried opening SeaMonkey -profilemanager then pointing it the
> same location as the profile you nuked?
> Perhaps you need to delete %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla\registry.dat. After
> doing this you might need to use -profilemanager with Firefox etc to
> repoint it at their profile
> Dave

I took a shot in the dark today namely trying to restore the nuked
profile data along with the then-current version of registry.dat and
profiles.ini from the Friday (2013-09-20) Diff backup and *now* the
restore went in like a red-hot poker in a lump of butter :-) Then I
jumped into the Firefox-2.7.2 dir and just typed seamonkey.exe and up it
came with the old settinge EXCEPT that along the way it had somewhere
lost the password file. The old password file is lying around in the old
SMPmW118 profile but WHAT type of file should I look for there? There is
a key3.db, cert8.db, and two files with identical names but one with the
.s extension and the other with the .w extension. So I went into the
prefs.js file and found a reference to the .s file but no corresponding
file. So I copied over the referenced .s and .w files to the new SM
profile and adding a line from the prefs.js in the old SM profile. Then
I restarted SM 2.7.2 AND went into the Password manager, and at first
all the collected sites with their corresponding userID and a Show
Passwords button at the bottom of the listing, but then Pouf! - without
any warning at all ALL the sites disappeared EXCEPT my e-mail account
login data and login data for www.tradera.com! Now this is extremely
frustrating and why did the sitelist disappared at all in the first
place? So how do I solve this annoying problem? Another thing is that
for some reasons a "bug" have shown up in the Mail window. In the old SM
I had the mail sorted in inverse chronological order (last received at
the TOP of the list) which is done by clicking the Date file until it
shows an up arrow. But in SM 2.7.2, clicking on the Date sort field
until it shows an Up arrow displays the messages in chronological order,
i.e. first received at the TOP of the list and the last at the bottom.
Clicking the Date button so it shows a DOWN arror displays the message
in reverse chronological order, i.e. last received at the top and the
oldest received at the bottom. Is this a but or what?

Unfortunately, there is no import function in the new SM that I could
have used to get over my old stored password or have I missed an invoc

Cul8er alligator!
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> I took a shot in the dark today namely trying to restore the nuked
> profile data along with the then-current version of registry.dat and
> profiles.ini from the Friday (2013-09-20) Diff backup and*now*  the
> restore went in like a red-hot poker in a lump of butter:-)  Then I
> jumped into the Firefox-2.7.2 dir and just typed seamonkey.exe and up it
> came with the old settinge EXCEPT that along the way it had somewhere
> lost the password file. The old password file is lying around in the old
> SMPmW118 profile but WHAT type of file should I look for there? There is
> a key3.db, cert8.db, and two files with identical names but one with the
> .s extension and the other with the .w extension. So I went into the
> prefs.js file and found a reference to the .s file but no corresponding
> file. So I copied over the referenced .s and .w files to the new SM
> profile and adding a line from the prefs.js in the old SM profile. Then
> I restarted SM 2.7.2 AND went into the Password manager, and at first
> all the collected sites with their corresponding userID and a Show
> Passwords button at the bottom of the listing, but then Pouf! - without
> any warning at all ALL the sites disappeared EXCEPT my e-mail account
> login data and login data forwww.tradera.com! Now this is extremely
> frustrating and why did the sitelist disappared at all in the first
> place? So how do I solve this annoying problem? Another thing is that
> for some reasons a "bug" have shown up in the Mail window. In the old SM
> I had the mail sorted in inverse chronological order (last received at
> the TOP of the list) which is done by clicking the Date file until it
> shows an up arrow. But in SM 2.7.2, clicking on the Date sort field
> until it shows an Up arrow displays the messages in chronological order,
> i.e. first received at the TOP of the list and the last at the bottom.
> Clicking the Date button so it shows a DOWN arror displays the message
> in reverse chronological order, i.e. last received at the top and the
> oldest received at the bottom. Is this a but or what?
>
> Unfortunately, there is no import function in the new SM that I could
> have used to get over my old stored password or have I missed an invoc

Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
%MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
it does a better job of migrating.
It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
2.7.12
Dave
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Sun, 22 Sep 2013 21:53:34 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > I took a shot in the dark today namely trying to restore the nuked
> > profile data along with the then-current version of registry.dat and
> > profiles.ini from the Friday (2013-09-20) Diff backup and*now*  the
> > restore went in like a red-hot poker in a lump of butter:-)  Then I
> > jumped into the Firefox-2.7.2 dir and just typed seamonkey.exe and up it
> > came with the old settinge EXCEPT that along the way it had somewhere
> > lost the password file. The old password file is lying around in the old
> > SMPmW118 profile but WHAT type of file should I look for there? There is
> > a key3.db, cert8.db, and two files with identical names but one with the
> > .s extension and the other with the .w extension. So I went into the
> > prefs.js file and found a reference to the .s file but no corresponding
> > file. So I copied over the referenced .s and .w files to the new SM
> > profile and adding a line from the prefs.js in the old SM profile. Then
> > I restarted SM 2.7.2 AND went into the Password manager, and at first
> > all the collected sites with their corresponding userID and a Show
> > Passwords button at the bottom of the listing, but then Pouf! - without
> > any warning at all ALL the sites disappeared EXCEPT my e-mail account
> > login data and login data forwww.tradera.com! Now this is extremely
> > frustrating and why did the sitelist disappared at all in the first
> > place? So how do I solve this annoying problem? Another thing is that
> > for some reasons a "bug" have shown up in the Mail window. In the old SM
> > I had the mail sorted in inverse chronological order (last received at
> > the TOP of the list) which is done by clicking the Date file until it
> > shows an up arrow. But in SM 2.7.2, clicking on the Date sort field
> > until it shows an Up arrow displays the messages in chronological order,
> > i.e. first received at the TOP of the list and the last at the bottom.
> > Clicking the Date button so it shows a DOWN arror displays the message
> > in reverse chronological order, i.e. last received at the top and the
> > oldest received at the bottom. Is this a but or what?
> >
> > Unfortunately, there is no import function in the new SM that I could
> > have used to get over my old stored password or have I missed an invoc
>
> Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
> %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
> it does a better job of migrating.

Do you mean that I first close down the running 2.7.2, then type
MOZILLA_HMOE= and then just type seamonkey.exe?
Would that start the migration process a-fresh?

> It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
> you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
> 2.7.12
> Dave

There exist a commandline option to seamonkey.exe namely the '-migrate'
- could that do the trick, i.e. migrating ALL my profile data, including
passwords, bookmarks and so on to the new profile?


Cul8er alligator!
gaea - feminist & chunkawakan
--
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:
>> >  Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
>> >  %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
>> >  it does a better job of migrating.
> Do you mean that I first close down the running 2.7.2, then type
> MOZILLA_HMOE= and then just type seamonkey.exe?
> Would that start the migration process a-fresh?

No, I mean to go to where ever MOZILLA_HOME points and move the Mozilla
directory under it to something like Mozilla.bak (or delete if you trust
your backup). Then fire up seamonkey.exe to start the migration process
a-fresh. SeaMonkey needs the MOZILLA_HOME set to find your sm118 profile.

>
>> >  It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
>> >  you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
>> >  2.7.12
>> >  Dave
> There exist a commandline option to seamonkey.exe namely the '-migrate'
> - could that do the trick, i.e. migrating ALL my profile data, including
> passwords, bookmarks and so on to the new profile?

You could try it. I have a faint memory of it being broken at one point
but if it works it should migrate everything.
Dave

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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:19:10 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >> >  Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
> >> >  %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
> >> >  it does a better job of migrating.
> > Do you mean that I first close down the running 2.7.2, then type
> > MOZILLA_HMOE= and then just type seamonkey.exe?
> > Would that start the migration process a-fresh?
>
> No, I mean to go to where ever MOZILLA_HOME points and move the Mozilla
> directory under it to something like Mozilla.bak (or delete if you trust
> your backup). Then fire up seamonkey.exe to start the migration process
> a-fresh. SeaMonkey needs the MOZILLA_HOME set to find your sm118 profile.
>

My statement in config.sys for moilla_home is this:

SET MOZILLA_HOME=Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA

So if I understand you correctly I should place myself at
y:\mozilla.org\mozilla and then do a XCOPY Mozilla Mozilla.bak /s /v /e
/h /t /r /o to backup the Mozilla dir tree? Then close down SM 2.7.2 and
firing it up again and it would then migrate my SMPmW118 profile data
correctly?

> >
> >> >  It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
> >> >  you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
> >> >  2.7.12
> >> >  Dave
> > There exist a commandline option to seamonkey.exe namely the '-migrate'
> > - could that do the trick, i.e. migrating ALL my profile data, including
> > passwords, bookmarks and so on to the new profile?
>
> You could try it. I have a faint memory of it being broken at one point
> but if it works it should migrate everything.
> Dave
>

If I go this way I would invoke SM 2.7.2 in the following way:

seamonkey.exe -P cribo.jacobsson -migration

and then it will migrate my SPMwm118 profile data to the sm2 format? But
would it put the migrated profile in the same profile dir that now exist
or will it create a brand-ney profile location where ALL relevant stuff
like bookmarks, history, forms, passwords etcetera will be stored
correctly?


Cul8er alligator!
gaea - feminist & chunkawakan
--
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       Team eCs       e-mail:  [hidden email]   (Alternate)
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Dave Yeo-3
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:19:10 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
>>>>>   Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
>>>>>   %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
>>>>>   it does a better job of migrating.
>>> Do you mean that I first close down the running 2.7.2, then type
>>> MOZILLA_HMOE= and then just type seamonkey.exe?
>>> Would that start the migration process a-fresh?
>>
>> No, I mean to go to where ever MOZILLA_HOME points and move the Mozilla
>> directory under it to something like Mozilla.bak (or delete if you trust
>> your backup). Then fire up seamonkey.exe to start the migration process
>> a-fresh. SeaMonkey needs the MOZILLA_HOME set to find your sm118 profile.
>>
>
> My statement in config.sys for moilla_home is this:
>
> SET MOZILLA_HOME=Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA
>
> So if I understand you correctly I should place myself at
> y:\mozilla.org\mozilla and then do a XCOPY Mozilla Mozilla.bak /s /v /e
> /h /t /r /o to backup the Mozilla dir tree? Then close down SM 2.7.2 and
> firing it up again and it would then migrate my SMPmW118 profile data
> correctly?

No, you want Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla and xcopy it to
Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla.bak and xdel Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla\*
Then restarting SM2.7.2 should create
Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\ with the new profile
ending in .default

>
>>>
>>>>>   It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
>>>>>   you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
>>>>>   2.7.12
>>>>>   Dave
>>> There exist a commandline option to seamonkey.exe namely the '-migrate'
>>> - could that do the trick, i.e. migrating ALL my profile data, including
>>> passwords, bookmarks and so on to the new profile?
>>
>> You could try it. I have a faint memory of it being broken at one point
>> but if it works it should migrate everything.
>> Dave
>>
>
> If I go this way I would invoke SM 2.7.2 in the following way:
>
> seamonkey.exe -P cribo.jacobsson -migration
>
> and then it will migrate my SPMwm118 profile data to the sm2 format? But
> would it put the migrated profile in the same profile dir that now exist
> or will it create a brand-ney profile location where ALL relevant stuff
> like bookmarks, history, forms, passwords etcetera will be stored
> correctly?

I'm not sure, you can experiment.
Dave
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Christer Jacobsson
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:12:32 UTC, Dave Yeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 05:19:10 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >
> >> Christer Jacobsson wrote:
> >>>>>   Sounds like some corruption somewhere. Perhaps start over by moving
> >>>>>   %MOZILLA_HOME%\Mozilla out of the way and restarting SM 2.7.12 to see if
> >>>>>   it does a better job of migrating.
> >>> Do you mean that I first close down the running 2.7.2, then type
> >>> MOZILLA_HMOE= and then just type seamonkey.exe?
> >>> Would that start the migration process a-fresh?
> >>
> >> No, I mean to go to where ever MOZILLA_HOME points and move the Mozilla
> >> directory under it to something like Mozilla.bak (or delete if you trust
> >> your backup). Then fire up seamonkey.exe to start the migration process
> >> a-fresh. SeaMonkey needs the MOZILLA_HOME set to find your sm118 profile.
> >>
> >
> > My statement in config.sys for moilla_home is this:
> >
> > SET MOZILLA_HOME=Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA
> >
> > So if I understand you correctly I should place myself at
> > y:\mozilla.org\mozilla and then do a XCOPY Mozilla Mozilla.bak /s /v /e
> > /h /t /r /o to backup the Mozilla dir tree? Then close down SM 2.7.2 and
> > firing it up again and it would then migrate my SMPmW118 profile data
> > correctly?
>
> No, you want Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla and xcopy it to
> Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla.bak and xdel Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\Mozilla\*
> Then restarting SM2.7.2 should create
> Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA\mozilla\SeaMonkey\Profiles\ with the new profile
> ending in .default
>

But how will SM2.7.2 now find the old SMPmW118 profile data now that
there is no Mozilla dir under Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA? The data,
including the registry.dat file will now reside in the mozilla.bak
cat/file structure, so how would SM2.7.2 ever find the profile data it
needs for a successful migration?

> >
> >>>
> >>>>>   It's also possible that something is broken in the migration thing so
> >>>>>   you could do the above but use SM 2.1 or so to migrate, then switch to
> >>>>>   2.7.12
> >>>>>   Dave
> >>> There exist a commandline option to seamonkey.exe namely the '-migrate'
> >>> - could that do the trick, i.e. migrating ALL my profile data, including
> >>> passwords, bookmarks and so on to the new profile?
> >>
> >> You could try it. I have a faint memory of it being broken at one point
> >> but if it works it should migrate everything.
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
> > If I go this way I would invoke SM 2.7.2 in the following way:
> >
> > seamonkey.exe -P cribo.jacobsson -migration
> >
> > and then it will migrate my SPMwm118 profile data to the sm2 format? But
> > would it put the migrated profile in the same profile dir that now exist
> > or will it create a brand-ney profile location where ALL relevant stuff
> > like bookmarks, history, forms, passwords etcetera will be stored
> > correctly?
>
> I'm not sure, you can experiment.
> Dave

Been there, done that, 'sho 'nuff - Profile Manager just popped up
showing the Default profile which was the partially-migrated profile.
Can it be that I must do the creation of a mozilla.bak cat/file
structure, then xdel the mozilla cat/file under y:\mozilla.org\mozilla
and THEN try to use the seamonkey.exe -P cribo.jacobson -migration
stuff?


Cul8er alligator!
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Alfredo Fernández Díaz
Hi,

Christer Jacobsson escribió:
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 15:12:32 UTC, Dave Yeo<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
...
> But how will SM2.7.2 now find the old SMPmW118 profile data now that
> there is no Mozilla dir under Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA? The data,
> including the registry.dat file will now reside in the mozilla.bak
> cat/file structure, so how would SM2.7.2 ever find the profile data it
> needs for a successful migration?
[...]

FWIW, it might be useful to have a look at

----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----
http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/download/pub/os2/apps/internet/www/browser/mrtools.zip
17.5 KB / 2008/02/25 Mozilla Registry tools v0.1.0

This is a set of programs that will (hopefully) allow human beings *convert to
plain text format, easily edit and rebuild Netscape/Mozilla/SeaMonkey registry
file (registry.dat)*.
----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<----

to fiddle around with that more easily.

Best regards,
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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Ray Davison
In reply to this post by Christer Jacobsson
Christer Jacobsson wrote:

> But how will SM2.7.2 now find the old SMPmW118 profile data now that
> there is no Mozilla dir under Y:\MOZILLA.ORG\MOZILLA? The data,
> including the registry.dat file will now reside in the mozilla.bak
> cat/file structure, so how would SM2.7.2 ever find the profile data it
> needs for a successful migration?

You don't make SM try to "find" what you want it to have.  You take it
by the hand and lead it.  First point to remember; you can put any part
of a Mozilla app anywhere you want.  And you can have as many copies of
the apps and profiles as you have room on the HDD.  I have the apps on
an app partition, the profiles in one tree on a data partition and
mail/news in a seperate tree on the data partition.  I put no part of
Mozilla on a boot partition.

To move from 1X to 2X, copy the 1X profile to somewhere you want the 2X
profele to be.  Run 2X SM with -Profilemanager as the switch.  That will
open profile manager.  Create a new profile.  Tell it to use the copy of
1X.  When the dust settles, you will have a 2X profile for 2X SM.

Ray


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Re: Problem upgrading Seamonkey SMPmw118 to SM 2.7.12

Ray Davison
Ray Davison wrote:
> First point to remember; you can put any part of a Mozilla app
> anywhere you want.

And you can name the top of the app, profile and data trees, and the
individual profile trees, anything you want.

Ray
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