Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

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Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.

Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
from the key fob.

RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )

As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.

So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.

While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
help carry this forward as an open source project.

If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
this up
as a public project.

Anyway just a thought all.
 
 

 
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Steve Lee-3
One possibility is that perhaps portableapps.com would be interested
in adding it to their collection. They don't seem to address a11y and
certainly have experience in the run-from-usb arena. Portablea11y is
an interesting idea but obviously hardware dependencies play a larger
part without standard OS abstraction for speech (say)

Another thought is that as larger mem stick are getting cheap the
footprint is not such an big issue as it was.

On 3/8/07, Doc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>
> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
> from the key fob.
>
> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>
> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>
> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>
> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>
> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
> this up
> as a public project.
>
> Anyway just a thought all.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>


--
Steve Lee
www.fullmeasure.co.uk
www.oatsoft.org
www.schoolforge.org.uk
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Doc-7
What's the programming language and what's the
license?

My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of
work is going into NVDA these days, and I'm sure
it fits on a key fob as well. So the question is,
should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way
for your projects to collaborate, or is there
something extra special about your screen reader
other than the small size, which makes it a
worthwhile community project?

- Aaron

Doc wrote:

> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>
> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
> from the key fob.
>
> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>
> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>
> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>
> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>
> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
> this up
> as a public project.
>
> Anyway just a thought all.
>
>
>
>
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RE: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Pratik Patel-3
My question is related to the license here as well.  Since RJ paid for the
initial development, I would like to be absolutely certain that any effort
made to bring this into the public domain and a group effort doesn't result
in any violation of license terms.  And, if any efforts are made, no claims
can be made on the result by anyone.

Pratik


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
Leventhal
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:32 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

What's the programming language and what's the
license?

My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of
work is going into NVDA these days, and I'm sure
it fits on a key fob as well. So the question is,
should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way
for your projects to collaborate, or is there
something extra special about your screen reader
other than the small size, which makes it a
worthwhile community project?

- Aaron

Doc wrote:

> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>
> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
> from the key fob.
>
> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>
> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>
> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>
> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>
> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
> this up
> as a public project.
>
> Anyway just a thought all.
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
dev-accessibility mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
The code has not seen the light of day since around 2003 , and
RJ is a pretty altruistic  type. None the less , this  is  an initial
exploration
into the interest there might be in the community to carry this forward.
If I can find a home for it , I can almost certainly get RJ to sign off
on the
idea as  I'm sure he would rather see the code out there helping someone
than rotting away on my old half dead laptop.

I wrote the whole thing myself , it it took me a while. I was working on
the DOM
stuff when between my health and RJs expenses it had to be set aside.



Pratik Patel wrote:

> My question is related to the license here as well.  Since RJ paid for the
> initial development, I would like to be absolutely certain that any effort
> made to bring this into the public domain and a group effort doesn't result
> in any violation of license terms.  And, if any efforts are made, no claims
> can be made on the result by anyone.
>
> Pratik
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
> Leventhal
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:32 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home
>
> What's the programming language and what's the
> license?
>
> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of
> work is going into NVDA these days, and I'm sure
> it fits on a key fob as well. So the question is,
> should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way
> for your projects to collaborate, or is there
> something extra special about your screen reader
> other than the small size, which makes it a
> worthwhile community project?
>
> - Aaron
>
> Doc wrote:
>  
>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>
>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>> from the key fob.
>>
>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>
>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>
>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>
>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>
>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
>> this up
>> as a public project.
>>
>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>
>  

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Pratik Patel-3
What do you think is the most valuable part of the
code?

Does it have an offscreen model? How does it track
the caret? I ask, because tracking the caret
requires something beyond MSAA, and is a critical
component. It could be useful if this screen
reader has that.

- Aaron


Doc wrote:

> The code has not seen the light of day since around 2003 , and
> RJ is a pretty altruistic  type. None the less , this  is  an initial
> exploration
> into the interest there might be in the community to carry this forward.
> If I can find a home for it , I can almost certainly get RJ to sign off
> on the
> idea as  I'm sure he would rather see the code out there helping someone
> than rotting away on my old half dead laptop.
>
> I wrote the whole thing myself , it it took me a while. I was working on
> the DOM
> stuff when between my health and RJs expenses it had to be set aside.
>
>
>
> Pratik Patel wrote:
>> My question is related to the license here as well.  Since RJ paid for
>> the
>> initial development, I would like to be absolutely certain that any
>> effort
>> made to bring this into the public domain and a group effort doesn't
>> result
>> in any violation of license terms.  And, if any efforts are made, no
>> claims
>> can be made on the result by anyone.
>>
>> Pratik
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
>> Leventhal
>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:32 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home
>>
>> What's the programming language and what's the license?
>>
>> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of work is going into
>> NVDA these days, and I'm sure it fits on a key fob as well. So the
>> question is, should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way for your
>> projects to collaborate, or is there something extra special about
>> your screen reader other than the small size, which makes it a
>> worthwhile community project?
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>> Doc wrote:
>>  
>>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>>
>>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>>> from the key fob.
>>>
>>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>>
>>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>>
>>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>>
>>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>>
>>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to
>>> set this up
>>> as a public project.
>>>
>>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>>  
>
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> What do you think is the most valuable part of the code?
I think that all screen readers tend to cover the same basic bases
and the larger ones like Cadillacs  have more features.

Probably the most value was realized in RJ understanding that the
creation of a tight package that had minimal expectations of the
hardware and software would take far longer than simply creating
a screen reader for the latest and greatest in hardware and it's attendant
costs. The code has benefited from at least a couple of years
of development by a single person to such a point that
it even looks sorta simple to other coders.

It was even afforded a structure that at some later date would support
other OS's and their accessibility features.

> Does it have an offscreen model?
No , the Fob IO does not maintain any off-screen models, which is a feat
in and of itself.
I had decided that a purely event driven model with minimal "off screen"
structures
was the best bet. I had people at CSUN and such walking up to my laptop
(With it's dead display screen) able to use it to it's full abilities at
the time with no instruction
abeit some momentary confusion in it not being JAWS. Yet none the less I
did not have to explain
to anyone how to use it.

> How does it track the caret? I ask, because tracking the caret
> requires something beyond MSAA, and is a critical component. It could
> be useful if this screen reader has that.
The caret was a lot of fun to write in a form that accounted for
the odd and sometimes ill sequenced and / or non existent MSAA messages.
Last I checked the caret worked great. It is based upon a shared memory DLL
I wrote from scratch.

> - Aaron
>
>
> Doc wrote:
>> The code has not seen the light of day since around 2003 , and
>> RJ is a pretty altruistic  type. None the less , this  is  an initial
>> exploration
>> into the interest there might be in the community to carry this forward.
>> If I can find a home for it , I can almost certainly get RJ to sign
>> off on the
>> idea as  I'm sure he would rather see the code out there helping someone
>> than rotting away on my old half dead laptop.
>>
>> I wrote the whole thing myself , it it took me a while. I was working
>> on the DOM
>> stuff when between my health and RJs expenses it had to be set aside.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pratik Patel wrote:
>>> My question is related to the license here as well.  Since RJ paid
>>> for the
>>> initial development, I would like to be absolutely certain that any
>>> effort
>>> made to bring this into the public domain and a group effort doesn't
>>> result
>>> in any violation of license terms.  And, if any efforts are made, no
>>> claims
>>> can be made on the result by anyone.
>>>
>>> Pratik
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
>>> Leventhal
>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:32 AM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home
>>>
>>> What's the programming language and what's the license?
>>>
>>> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of work is going into
>>> NVDA these days, and I'm sure it fits on a key fob as well. So the
>>> question is, should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way for
>>> your projects to collaborate, or is there something extra special
>>> about your screen reader other than the small size, which makes it a
>>> worthwhile community project?
>>>
>>> - Aaron
>>>
>>> Doc wrote:
>>>  
>>>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>>>
>>>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>>>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>>>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>>>> from the key fob.
>>>>
>>>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>>>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>>>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>>>
>>>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>>>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>>>
>>>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>>>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>>>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>>>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>>>
>>>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>>>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>>>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>>>
>>>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best
>>>> to set this up
>>>> as a public project.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>
>>>  
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
If you have caret code that can somehow magically
deal with a caret when there are no MSAA messages,
and it's not a standard control, then that is
definitely of value. I'd be skeptical though. You
could run a quick test and see if it works with
the Firefox location bar.

- Aaron

Doc wrote:

> Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>> What do you think is the most valuable part of the code?
> I think that all screen readers tend to cover the same basic bases
> and the larger ones like Cadillacs  have more features.
>
> Probably the most value was realized in RJ understanding that the
> creation of a tight package that had minimal expectations of the
> hardware and software would take far longer than simply creating
> a screen reader for the latest and greatest in hardware and it's attendant
> costs. The code has benefited from at least a couple of years
> of development by a single person to such a point that
> it even looks sorta simple to other coders.
>
> It was even afforded a structure that at some later date would support
> other OS's and their accessibility features.
>
>> Does it have an offscreen model?
> No , the Fob IO does not maintain any off-screen models, which is a feat
> in and of itself.
> I had decided that a purely event driven model with minimal "off screen"
> structures
> was the best bet. I had people at CSUN and such walking up to my laptop
> (With it's dead display screen) able to use it to it's full abilities at
> the time with no instruction
> abeit some momentary confusion in it not being JAWS. Yet none the less I
> did not have to explain
> to anyone how to use it.
>
>> How does it track the caret? I ask, because tracking the caret
>> requires something beyond MSAA, and is a critical component. It could
>> be useful if this screen reader has that.
> The caret was a lot of fun to write in a form that accounted for
> the odd and sometimes ill sequenced and / or non existent MSAA messages.
> Last I checked the caret worked great. It is based upon a shared memory DLL
> I wrote from scratch.
>
>> - Aaron
>>
>>
>> Doc wrote:
>>> The code has not seen the light of day since around 2003 , and
>>> RJ is a pretty altruistic  type. None the less , this  is  an initial
>>> exploration
>>> into the interest there might be in the community to carry this forward.
>>> If I can find a home for it , I can almost certainly get RJ to sign
>>> off on the
>>> idea as  I'm sure he would rather see the code out there helping someone
>>> than rotting away on my old half dead laptop.
>>>
>>> I wrote the whole thing myself , it it took me a while. I was working
>>> on the DOM
>>> stuff when between my health and RJs expenses it had to be set aside.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Pratik Patel wrote:
>>>> My question is related to the license here as well.  Since RJ paid
>>>> for the
>>>> initial development, I would like to be absolutely certain that any
>>>> effort
>>>> made to bring this into the public domain and a group effort doesn't
>>>> result
>>>> in any violation of license terms.  And, if any efforts are made, no
>>>> claims
>>>> can be made on the result by anyone.
>>>>
>>>> Pratik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [hidden email]
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
>>>> Leventhal
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:32 AM
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home
>>>>
>>>> What's the programming language and what's the license?
>>>>
>>>> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of work is going into
>>>> NVDA these days, and I'm sure it fits on a key fob as well. So the
>>>> question is, should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way for
>>>> your projects to collaborate, or is there something extra special
>>>> about your screen reader other than the small size, which makes it a
>>>> worthwhile community project?
>>>>
>>>> - Aaron
>>>>
>>>> Doc wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>>>>
>>>>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>>>>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>>>>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>>>>> from the key fob.
>>>>>
>>>>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>>>>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>>>>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>>>>
>>>>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>>>>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>>>>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>>>>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>>>>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>>>>
>>>>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>>>>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>>>>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best
>>>>> to set this up
>>>>> as a public project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> If you have caret code that can somehow magically deal with a caret
> when there are no MSAA messages, and it's not a standard control, then
> that is definitely of value. I'd be skeptical though. You could run a
> quick test and see if it works with the Firefox location bar.
>
The point I left off with the development had made minimal progress with
the non MSAA happenings in the browsers.

While my health  limits my participation , I can certainly solve any
issues that
the community might have problems in implementing themselves.

Most of what remains is the implementation  of the various DOM flavored
interfaces
which require more work than brilliance to complete

 
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
You can certainly put it on sourceforge as an open
source project, and try various mailing lists like
blindprogramming to try and find a maintainer.

It might be hard to get a maintainer at this point
-- if only because it seems like NVDA has momentum
  right now in terms of open source Windows screen
reader offerings.

- Aaron

Doc wrote:

> Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>> If you have caret code that can somehow magically deal with a caret
>> when there are no MSAA messages, and it's not a standard control, then
>> that is definitely of value. I'd be skeptical though. You could run a
>> quick test and see if it works with the Firefox location bar.
>>
> The point I left off with the development had made minimal progress with
> the non MSAA happenings in the browsers.
>
> While my health  limits my participation , I can certainly solve any
> issues that
> the community might have problems in implementing themselves.
>
> Most of what remains is the implementation  of the various DOM flavored
> interfaces
> which require more work than brilliance to complete
>
>
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Gregory J. Rosmaita
YES, please make it available via sourceforge and spread the news as
widely as possible...  i and others will help spread the word - i've
already forwarded your initial call for a maintainer to a few lists
and individuals...

there is ALWAYS room for another open source screen reader - i use
NVDA almost as much as JAWS these days, but when it comes to
traversing the wild wild web, i vastly prefer FiveVox, for its
support for aural style sheets, but hate the hassles of having to put
one's main screen reader into sleep mode when in FireVox, so that one
retains speech for other applications...

there is NOTHING to be lost by multiple approaches to the same
problem - i discovered long ago that an individual's devotion to a
particular screen reader more often resembles blind faith than a
logical choice, so why not provide as many paths to the common end -
providing those who need a screen reader with a choice of open source
screen readers...

gregory.

PS: by the way, i'd love to hear that i'm wrong about NVDA and that
it supports aural cascading style sheets and/or SSML, but i searched
the NVDA documentation wiki, as well as every other public portion of
the NVA web site [http://www.nvaccess.org/] and couldn't get a hit on
either...

--------------------------------------------------------------
CONTROVERSY, n.  A battle in which spittle or ink replaces the
injurious cannon ball and the inconsiderate bayonet.
                     -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
--------------------------------------------------------------
           Gregory J. Rosmaita <[hidden email]>
      Camera Obscura: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/
     VICUG NYC: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/
  Read 'Em & Speak: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/books/
--------------------------------------------------------------

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Aaron Leventhal <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Pratik Patel <[hidden email]>
Sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 15:30:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

> You can certainly put it on sourceforge as an open
> source project, and try various mailing lists like
> blindprogramming to try and find a maintainer.
>
> It might be hard to get a maintainer at this point
> -- if only because it seems like NVDA has momentum
>   right now in terms of open source Windows screen
> reader offerings.
>
> - Aaron
>
> Doc wrote:
> > Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> >> If you have caret code that can somehow magically deal with a
caret
> >> when there are no MSAA messages, and it's not a standard
control, then
> >> that is definitely of value. I'd be skeptical though. You could
run a
> >> quick test and see if it works with the Firefox location bar.
> >>
> > The point I left off with the development had made minimal
progress with
> > the non MSAA happenings in the browsers.
> >
> > While my health  limits my participation , I can certainly solve
any
> > issues that
> > the community might have problems in implementing themselves.
> >
> > Most of what remains is the implementation  of the various DOM
flavored
> > interfaces
> > which require more work than brilliance to complete
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
------- End of Original Message -------

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Gregory J. Rosmaita wrote:

> PS: by the way, i'd love to hear that i'm wrong about NVDA and that
> it supports aural cascading style sheets and/or SSML, but i searched
> the NVDA documentation wiki, as well as every other public portion of
> the NVA web site [http://www.nvaccess.org/] and couldn't get a hit on
> either...

Out of interest, are you looking for such support as a way of
configuring how NVDA sounds when reading web pages generally or in order
to experience aural style sheets created by particular web authors?

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Gregory J. Rosmaita
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis inquired:

quote
> Out of interest, are you looking for such support as a way of
> configuring how NVDA sounds when reading web pages generally
> or in order to experience aural style sheets created by
> particular web authors?
unquote

GJR replies:

both - users need a choice of verbosity settings; some prefer pure
earcons, rather than pseudo-text to indicate header levels,
hyperlinks; words encased in strong, em, etc., so as to neither slow
down the aural experince of the page, nor cause confusion...

the solution, as i perceive it, would be to add support for aural
style sheets, ESPECIALLY on the client side, for while i use them on
most of my web pages, i know that they are a rare species in the wild
wild web...

for an example of ACSS in use, fire up FireVox and visit:
[http://ubats.org]

note that now that i have access to an aural interface that supports
aural CSS, i myself, am finally reaping the benefits of the aural CSS
included in my pages - prior to FireVox, the aural styling was
theoretically based (that is, my best attempts to make logical
decisions as to how to change voice characteristics in an intuative
and easily understood manner), although now that i do have access to
FireVox, i can expand and modify, based on practice, rather than
theory...

support for aural CSS must also be available to those who - for
whatever reason - physical, financial or otherwise - are using older
technology and hardware...  we must NOT forget those in the train of
our march towards an accessible internet - NVDA, and any other screen
reader worth using, should support both aural CSS (server-side and
client-side), so as to provide a mechanism through which a user can
easily and expeditiously assign aural styling to sites which neither
utilize CSS and those which mis-use the deprecated presentational
items inherited from HTML 3.2

support for aural style sheets need not conflict with or be perceived
as an alternate slash substitute for SSML - a screen reader MUST
support both, but incidents of SSML on the web are even rarer than
examples of aural styling...

when listening to a page using an aural browser, there should be at
least 2, if not 3, levels of verbosity; level 1 (basic) could signal
the properties of a string of text by using boilerplate messages,
such as "link" "visited link" "begin emphasis" "end emphasis"; level
2 would allow the user to tweak the default aural stylesheet, so as
to provide a medium ground, where an individual can decide what
sounds suffice as element inticators and which elements or attributes
that an individual user wants explicitly named; level 3 would be a
user-defined aural style sheet, which would endow power users with a
common, self-defined aural guide to document elements and
attributes...

as for the burden on the client-side, vis a vis, tweaking the aural
style sheet or creating a totally new one, this could be made easier
by querying the DOM and putting into a "property sheet" interface a
list of elements, attributes and classes, along with their default
settings, which would aid anyone not versed in CSS to effect quick
and efficient changes that would allow the aural-only cybernaut to
actually surf the web, rather than crawl it, at the mercy of an
inflexible aural parser and ill-formed web documents and iterfaces...

such styling could - and should - be made available to those using a
platform neutral markup language not used on the web, such as RTF
(rich text format), which - like HTML/XHTML - uses plain text to mark
up a document...

gregory.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others.                 -- Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_
-------------------------------------------------------------------
             Gregory J. Rosmaita, [hidden email]
UBATS - United Blind Advocates for Talking Signs: http://ubats.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
I'm working on setting up the source forge project for the pocket reader,
and was wondering if everyone would be happy if I licensed it as GPL, or
would
something else seem to be of preference and if so why?

Aaron Leventhal wrote:

> What's the programming language and what's the license?
>
> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of work is going into
> NVDA these days, and I'm sure it fits on a key fob as well. So the
> question is, should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way for your
> projects to collaborate, or is there something extra special about
> your screen reader other than the small size, which makes it a
> worthwhile community project?
>
> - Aaron
>
> Doc wrote:
>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>
>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>> from the key fob.
>>
>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>
>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>
>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>
>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>
>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to
>> set this up
>> as a public project.
>>
>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
In regards to the caret code, I'm not sure if I answered this question
here yet ( So many questions ), so I'll
do so now.

The caret code uses a global shared memory DLL keyboard hook that
intercepts keystrokes at a very low level and communicates them back into
the main pocket reader application where those strokes along with some
minor state information harvested elsewhere is merged together to form
a coherent caret, with word mode character mode etc.

The program is also all in wide byte format for purposes of
internationalization

Heres the .ini file to give one an idea of some of the things
in the infrastructure

[FILE]
#Hide             -    [TRUE        |FALSE                            ]
#Is the keyreader application window visible.
HIDE=FALSE
#Debug            -    [TRUE        |FALSE                            ]
#Determines if the initial display size of the application
#window is just the speech echoing, or if it includes
#debugging windows as well.
DEBUG=TRUE
 
[SPEECH]
#Key Echoing        -    [TRUE        |FALSE                            
            ]
KEYECHO=FALSE
#Speech Rate        -    [SLOWEST    |SLOWER    |REGULAR    |FASTER    
|FASTEST    ]
RATE=Faster
#Pitch Setting        -    [LOWEST    |LOWER    |REGULAR    |HIGHER    
|HIGHEST    ]
PITCH=Lower
#Reading Unit        -    [CHAR        |WORD        |LINE        
|BLOCK                ]
UNIT=Word
#Resolution        -    [REGULAR    |EXTRA    |DETAILED                
        ]
VERBOSITY=Detailed
#Speech Muting        -    [TRUE        |FALSE                        
                    ]
MUTE=FALSE
#Pitch Lock        -    [TRUE        |FALSE    ]
# Determines if keyreader should lock the pitch or use the agent pitch
PITCH_LOCK=FALSE
 
[CONFIG]
#Start With Windows    -    [TRUE        |FALSE                        
        ]
AUTOSTART=FALSE
#Set Buffering mode    -    [REALTIME    |UNLIMITED                    
            ]
BUFFERED=Unlimited
#Speech Engine        -    [AGENT    |SAPI        |SAM                
        ]
ENGINE=Agent
#Language            -    [ENGLISH                                        ]
LANGUAGE=English
 
[PHRASES]
Welcome=Howdy Friend ! Welcome to Key Reader!
Exit=Exiting Key Reader.
 
START_OF_LINE=,Start Of Line.
END_OF_LINE=,End Of Line.
 
BLANK_LINE=Blank Line.
START_OF_DOCUMENT=,Start Of Document.
END_OF_DOCUMENT=,End Of Document.
EMPTY_DOCUMENT=Empty Document.
CHARACTER_MODE=,Character Mode.
WORD_MODE=,Word Mode.
TASKBAR_MODE=Task Bar Mode,
START_MENUBAR=Menu Bar,
END_MENUBAR=End Menu Bar,
START_POPUP=Pop Up Menu
NEW_LINE=New Line,
STATE_PROTECTED=,Protected
STATE_FOCUSABLE=,Focusable
STATE_EXTSELECTABLE=,Extended Selectable
STATE_BUSY=,Busy
STATE_COLLAPSED=,Collapsed
STATE_DEFAULT=,Default
STATE_UNAVAILABLE=,Unavailable
STATE_CHECKED=Checked,
STATE_FOCUSED=Focused,
STATE_SELECTED=Selected,
START_SUBMENU=Sub Menu,
DESK_TOP=Desk Top,
RUNNING_APPS=Running Applications,
QUICK_LAUNCH=Quick Launch,
BACK_SPACE=,Back Space
DELETE_KEY=,Delete Key
START_OF_LINK=,Link ,
END_OF_LINK=,End Link.
 
[AGENT]
PATH=C:\WINDOWS\MSAGENT\CHARS\Joe.acs





Aaron Leventhal wrote:
> If you have caret code that can somehow magically deal with a caret
> when there are no MSAA messages, and it's not a standard control, then
> that is definitely of value. I'd be skeptical though. You could run a
> quick test and see if it works with the Firefox location bar.
>


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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Michael Curran
In reply to this post by Doc-7
I'm all for GPL.

I know there may be some who think that GPL might be a bit too strong, but
seriously, for a project like yours, and for the reasons you wrote it, its
probably the only one that gives you the security of knowing that no one can
change your code with out contributing it back to the community.

NVDA is licenced by the GPL for this very reason. And I already have run in
to a few troubles with people not liking it, but, I stuck to my principles,
and it was definitly better in the end.

Thats my two sents worth.

Mick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc" <[hidden email]>
To: "Aaron Leventhal" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home


> I'm working on setting up the source forge project for the pocket reader,
> and was wondering if everyone would be happy if I licensed it as GPL, or
> would
> something else seem to be of preference and if so why?
>
> Aaron Leventhal wrote:
>> What's the programming language and what's the license?
>>
>> My honest thoughts here: it seems like a lot of work is going into NVDA
>> these days, and I'm sure it fits on a key fob as well. So the question
>> is, should efforts go to NVDA now, or is there a way for your projects to
>> collaborate, or is there something extra special about your screen reader
>> other than the small size, which makes it a worthwhile community project?
>>
>> - Aaron
>>
>> Doc wrote:
>>> I have an MSAA screen reader that fits on a key fob.
>>>
>>> Originally  I had developed this code for RJ Cooper.
>>> Code named "Fob IO" , the entire screen reader fits on
>>> a key chain fob that can even configure the host computer
>>> from the key fob.
>>>
>>> RJ put a lot of money into the project while I was in and
>>> out of the hospital, but finally lost the patience required
>>> to carry it through. ( can't really blame him though )
>>>
>>> As I told him then , one of these  days I wanted to carry it
>>> through even if he himself could no longer bare the burden.
>>>
>>> So I would like to find a few folks to take this project forward.
>>> Many moons were spent making Fobio really small. While not
>>> meant to be JAWS, the small ~ 500 K to 600 K footprint
>>> allows accessibility to carried in ones pocket.
>>>
>>> While someone able to fund the project would be extra special , what
>>> I'm really seeking is a few dedicated public service minded folks to
>>> help carry this forward as an open source project.
>>>
>>> If I can get a few talented and willing folks , I will do my best to set
>>> this up
>>> as a public project.
>>>
>>> Anyway just a thought all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
Michael Curran wrote:

> I'm all for GPL.
>
> I know there may be some who think that GPL might be a bit too strong,
> but seriously, for a project like yours, and for the reasons you wrote
> it, its probably the only one that gives you the security of knowing
> that no one can change your code with out contributing it back to the
> community.
>
> NVDA is licenced by the GPL for this very reason. And I already have
> run in to a few troubles with people not liking it, but, I stuck to my
> principles, and it was definitly better in the end.
>
> Thats my two sents worth.
>
> Mick

I tend to like the idea of GPL and I think when I present it to him it
will meet RJ's goals as well.
Not wanting to stick my head in the sand on this , what were the
objections cited to you by those
opposed to a GPL license and what was their alternative suggestion?



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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Michael Curran
I won't mention the company,

But, there were some people who wished to use a peace of my code for another
project. They wanted me to relicence that peace of code because they
believed they were unable to use it because it was under the GPL. They
believed that if they interacted with my code, due to interlectual property
and so forth they would have trouble then going and working on similar
projects that their company may have wished to keep close-source.

I myself never thought the GPL was *that* strong, but in the end the company
ended up sorting it out, and we are all happy now, and they are using my
code in the project (or at least learning from it) and it is still GPL.

the real point here is to just choose one licence and stick with it.

Mick

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc" <[hidden email]>
To: "Michael Curran" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home


> Michael Curran wrote:
>> I'm all for GPL.
>>
>> I know there may be some who think that GPL might be a bit too strong,
>> but seriously, for a project like yours, and for the reasons you wrote
>> it, its probably the only one that gives you the security of knowing that
>> no one can change your code with out contributing it back to the
>> community.
>>
>> NVDA is licenced by the GPL for this very reason. And I already have run
>> in to a few troubles with people not liking it, but, I stuck to my
>> principles, and it was definitly better in the end.
>>
>> Thats my two sents worth.
>>
>> Mick
>
> I tend to like the idea of GPL and I think when I present it to him it
> will meet RJ's goals as well.
> Not wanting to stick my head in the sand on this , what were the
> objections cited to you by those
> opposed to a GPL license and what was their alternative suggestion?
>
>
>

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
The only reason I chose GPL is that even though I'm not a lawyer it seemed
to cover the general intent of making the code available to the
community in an open
way without releasing the code in a fashion that deprived the overall
goal of making technology
more a property of the people than the people property of profits


Michael Curran wrote:

> I won't mention the company,
>
> But, there were some people who wished to use a peace of my code for
> another project. They wanted me to relicence that peace of code
> because they believed they were unable to use it because it was under
> the GPL. They believed that if they interacted with my code, due to
> interlectual property and so forth they would have trouble then going
> and working on similar projects that their company may have wished to
> keep close-source.
>
> I myself never thought the GPL was *that* strong, but in the end the
> company ended up sorting it out, and we are all happy now, and they
> are using my code in the project (or at least learning from it) and it
> is still GPL.
>
> the real point here is to just choose one licence and stick with it.
>
> Mick
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" <[hidden email]>
> To: "Michael Curran" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home
>
>
>> Michael Curran wrote:
>>> I'm all for GPL.
>>>
>>> I know there may be some who think that GPL might be a bit too
>>> strong, but seriously, for a project like yours, and for the reasons
>>> you wrote it, its probably the only one that gives you the security
>>> of knowing that no one can change your code with out contributing it
>>> back to the community.
>>>
>>> NVDA is licenced by the GPL for this very reason. And I already have
>>> run in to a few troubles with people not liking it, but, I stuck to
>>> my principles, and it was definitly better in the end.
>>>
>>> Thats my two sents worth.
>>>
>>> Mick
>>
>> I tend to like the idea of GPL and I think when I present it to him
>> it will meet RJ's goals as well.
>> Not wanting to stick my head in the sand on this , what were the
>> objections cited to you by those
>> opposed to a GPL license and what was their alternative suggestion?
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>

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Re: Pocket screen reader code needs a good home

Doc-7
In reply to this post by Michael Curran
I'm old , I'm faltering  , and I've had my fair share of time in this world.
If one likes I don't even  need a "By line"
but be it gleaming from my code to make even better or by some other means
let me go , knowing that no matter ones needs they have at least
some aceess to carry out their day , voice their opinion
or in all the many other little ways have fair access to the things that
shape ones life.

Michael Curran wrote:

> I won't mention the company,
>
> But, there were some people who wished to use a peace of my code for
> another project. They wanted me to relicence that peace of code
> because they believed they were unable to use it because it was under
> the GPL. They believed that if they interacted with my code, due to
> interlectual property and so forth they would have trouble then going
> and working on similar projects that their company may have wished to
> keep close-source.
>
> I myself never thought the GPL was *that* strong, but in the end the
> company ended up sorting it out, and we are all happy now, and they
> are using my code in the project (or at least learning from it) and it
> is still GPL.
>
> the real point here is to just choose one licence and stick with it.
>



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