Please Mozilla, Pay attention to accessibility for Linux users

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Please Mozilla, Pay attention to accessibility for Linux users

bando?ers@gmail
The subject says it all...Thunderbird 3.1.7 is a truly slow and tedious
program for us blind folks/Orca screen-reader can not read messages with
out going out and coming back in to the TB window, and it is almost
impossible to navigate in the message lists in any folder with more than
a couple of messages. (maybe even when there are only a few it is bad as
well, but I can't do my work, much less test much it is so damned slow.
Firefox is my browser of choice, and when I made the jump to Linux I was
very glad to see that most of my extensions were available and worked,
but again, accessibility for gnome-orca is very bad...and I hear from
developers that it is mostly on the Firefox end.
I do not know enough about any details to help solve the problems, but
many web-pages are almost un-navigable. The screen-reader does not land
one correctly in edit fields, and one is often stuck in a frame and
can't move up or down the page. There is a terrible lagtime when
navigating as well, so one does not know if there is more to be read or
whether to try and c lick on a link.
Some of the problems can be addressed on the Orca side for sure, but
please, as it is  an open source project one would hope that the Mozilla
devs would have a bit of consideration for Linux users when they work on
  Firefox.
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Re: Please Mozilla, Pay attention to accessibility for Linux users

Jason White-14
Burt Henry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I do not know enough about any details to help solve the problems,
> but many web-pages are almost un-navigable.

What are the Orca bug report numbers for all of your issues? Have these been
identified by developers as Mozilla problems and reported as Mozilla bugs?

In my experience, the Mozilla project is quite responsive when
accessibility-related bugs are properly reported.

Which version of Firefox are you running? Do you have the Orca focus tracking
options set correctly in the Firefox-specific Orca preferences? If you're not
sure, please take up the issues on the Orca mailing list. For Orca 2.30.2 and
Firefox 3.6 and above, the default focus tracking doesn't need to be changed;
but it does have to be switched if you're running Firefox 3.5 or earlier with
Orca 2.30.

Orca has some known performance issues and there's a project under development
to address these. Some of the funding is coming from Mozilla if I remember
correctly.

My own experience of running Firefox with Orca has been markedly better than
yours.

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Re: Please Mozilla, Pay attention to accessibility for Linux users

bando?ers@gmail
On 12/18/2010 5:05 chela, Jason White wrote:

> Burt Henry<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> I do not know enough about any details to help solve the problems,
>> but many web-pages are almost un-navigable.
>
> What are the Orca bug report numbers for all of your issues? Have these been
> identified by developers as Mozilla problems and reported as Mozilla bugs?
>
> In my experience, the Mozilla project is quite responsive when
> accessibility-related bugs are properly reported.
>
> Which version of Firefox are you running? Do you have the Orca focus tracking
> options set correctly in the Firefox-specific Orca preferences? If you're not
> sure, please take up the issues on the Orca mailing list. For Orca 2.30.2 and
> Firefox 3.6 and above, the default focus tracking doesn't need to be changed;
> but it does have to be switched if you're running Firefox 3.5 or earlier with
> Orca 2.30.

> Orca has some known performance issues and there's a project under development
> to address these. Some of the funding is coming from Mozilla if I remember
> correctly.
>
> My own experience of running Firefox with Orca has been markedly better than
> yours.
>
I've just switched from the standard Orca 2.30.2 to latest stable (think
its 2.9.95 or some such)
  and performance is somewhat better.
For the record I've used only firefox 3.6 since mostly migrating to
Linux in the summer... think it's 3.6.12 now...
I have also tried playing with focus settings, and no I can't tell you
all the bug-report numbers...I don't have time, nor should I have to
spend the time to list these as they are widely known issues in the
blind-Ubuntu community...
Orca is not the program one would ultimately hope for, but from those
who do have the time to spend on yet another list, the consensus is that
many of the problems are with how Mozilla gives accessibility to the
screen-reader in Linux... (works great with NVDA in windows)
My biggest problem that is clearly Mozilla's responsibility is that
caused with latest t-bird update.
Message lists are now and suddenly pretty much un-navigable since 3.1.7.
3.1.6 was quite accessible, but sadly I can't seem to find the exact
build of 3.1.6 that was used in the Vinux distro of Ubuntu Lucid 10.04
ltd. The Vinux folks did nothing to the Ubuntu version from what they
say, but the versions I get from the ubuntuzilla site (think that's was
what it was called) don't work exactly as the original did, nor does it
show up the same on the gui menus.
I'm a big Mozi fan, and I'm glad that firefox works well for you, but
you either do not have a good base-line to compare to, or are the rare
exception from what I can gather from talking to other blind-linux users.
At any rate, I'm no whining blind newbee, so don't get defensive with
me, and until I learn to code well I won't be wasting my time on the
Orca list.
Orca is what we have , so I won't be bad-mouthing it, but it does kinda
suck when you compare it to another fos project: NVDA.
(may not be completely their fault of course...the nature of the beast
is a bit different because of the OS I suppose, and I hear)
Best wishes for fast browsing, and hopefully with firefox...
B..H.


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Re: Please Mozilla, Pay attention to accessibility for Linux users

Alexander Surkov
Hi, Burt.

We really have very close and active collaboration with NVDA team,
perhaps even more active than with Orca team. Recently we've got on
board a new member to improve AT support on Linux. I hope we'll get
rid a cause to blame us on this way in nearest future.

Thank you.
Alexander.


On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Burt Henry <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 12/18/2010 5:05 chela, Jason White wrote:
>>
>> Burt Henry<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I do not know enough about any details to help solve the problems,
>>> but many web-pages are almost un-navigable.
>>
>> What are the Orca bug report numbers for all of your issues? Have these
>> been
>> identified by developers as Mozilla problems and reported as Mozilla bugs?
>>
>> In my experience, the Mozilla project is quite responsive when
>> accessibility-related bugs are properly reported.
>>
>> Which version of Firefox are you running? Do you have the Orca focus
>> tracking
>> options set correctly in the Firefox-specific Orca preferences? If you're
>> not
>> sure, please take up the issues on the Orca mailing list. For Orca 2.30.2
>> and
>> Firefox 3.6 and above, the default focus tracking doesn't need to be
>> changed;
>> but it does have to be switched if you're running Firefox 3.5 or earlier
>> with
>> Orca 2.30.
>
>> Orca has some known performance issues and there's a project under
>> development
>> to address these. Some of the funding is coming from Mozilla if I remember
>> correctly.
>>
>> My own experience of running Firefox with Orca has been markedly better
>> than
>> yours.
>>
> I've just switched from the standard Orca 2.30.2 to latest stable (think its
> 2.9.95 or some such)
>  and performance is somewhat better.
> For the record I've used only firefox 3.6 since mostly migrating to Linux in
> the summer... think it's 3.6.12 now...
> I have also tried playing with focus settings, and no I can't tell you all
> the bug-report numbers...I don't have time, nor should I have to spend the
> time to list these as they are widely known issues in the blind-Ubuntu
> community...
> Orca is not the program one would ultimately hope for, but from those who do
> have the time to spend on yet another list, the consensus is that many of
> the problems are with how Mozilla gives accessibility to the screen-reader
> in Linux... (works great with NVDA in windows)
> My biggest problem that is clearly Mozilla's responsibility is that caused
> with latest t-bird update.
> Message lists are now and suddenly pretty much un-navigable since 3.1.7.
> 3.1.6 was quite accessible, but sadly I can't seem to find the exact build
> of 3.1.6 that was used in the Vinux distro of Ubuntu Lucid 10.04 ltd. The
> Vinux folks did nothing to the Ubuntu version from what they say, but the
> versions I get from the ubuntuzilla site (think that's was what it was
> called) don't work exactly as the original did, nor does it show up the same
> on the gui menus.
> I'm a big Mozi fan, and I'm glad that firefox works well for you, but you
> either do not have a good base-line to compare to, or are the rare exception
> from what I can gather from talking to other blind-linux users.
> At any rate, I'm no whining blind newbee, so don't get defensive with me,
> and until I learn to code well I won't be wasting my time on the Orca list.
> Orca is what we have , so I won't be bad-mouthing it, but it does kinda suck
> when you compare it to another fos project: NVDA.
> (may not be completely their fault of course...the nature of the beast is a
> bit different because of the OS I suppose, and I hear)
> Best wishes for fast browsing, and hopefully with firefox...
> B..H.
>
>
> --
> Bando?ers
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>
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