On cross-channel and Fx 57

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On cross-channel and Fx 57

Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
Hi list,

I've got a report from a user mentioning that some strings in Firefox 57
(eu) are displayed in English. Strange, I thought, as the localization was
100% complete before the last merge day before 57 [1].

Since cross-channel was already in effect in October [2], and its
advertised feature was doing a fix once and not worrying about the rest of
the channels (at least when working on Pontoon), I took for granted the
latest changes I did in November right before the pre-57 merge day would be
taken into account.

I stopped caring about sign-offs long time ago, and out of curiosity now I
checked what was the changeset used for our Firefox 57 [3], and it turns
out it was quite an "old" change with respect to the fixes that happened
later.

So I'd like to clarify if my understanding of how strings should flow is
correct or not. Was there some issue specific to this particular release
perhaps? If that was the case, is there any solution that doesn't involve
waiting for 58?

Regards,
Julen.

[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar#Past_branch_dates
[2] http://markmail.org/thread/oi7nowlqsyic52qv
[3] https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/signoffs/eu/fx57#1010ee63a76a
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Michal Stanke-2
Hi Julen.

For Firefox 57 the last date for l10n uodates was 1st November I think. But
from the phone it's hard to search through the list.

--
Michal Stanke

Dne 12. 12. 2017 7:34 napsal uživatel "Julen Ruiz Aizpuru" <[hidden email]
>:

> Hi list,
>
> I've got a report from a user mentioning that some strings in Firefox 57
> (eu) are displayed in English. Strange, I thought, as the localization was
> 100% complete before the last merge day before 57 [1].
>
> Since cross-channel was already in effect in October [2], and its
> advertised feature was doing a fix once and not worrying about the rest of
> the channels (at least when working on Pontoon), I took for granted the
> latest changes I did in November right before the pre-57 merge day would be
> taken into account.
>
> I stopped caring about sign-offs long time ago, and out of curiosity now I
> checked what was the changeset used for our Firefox 57 [3], and it turns
> out it was quite an "old" change with respect to the fixes that happened
> later.
>
> So I'd like to clarify if my understanding of how strings should flow is
> correct or not. Was there some issue specific to this particular release
> perhaps? If that was the case, is there any solution that doesn't involve
> waiting for 58?
>
> Regards,
> Julen.
>
> [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar#Past_branch_dates
> [2] http://markmail.org/thread/oi7nowlqsyic52qv
> [3] https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/signoffs/eu/fx57#1010ee63a76a
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Francesco Lodolo [:flod]
In reply to this post by Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
Hi,
Sorry for the delay (currently traveling in US). Your expectations
about cross-channel are correct, in this case the problem is about the
technical deadlines to be able to ship anything in a release.

Changeset for eu shipping in 57 is from October 23
https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/rev/1010ee63a76a

Deadline for shipping updates to 57 was November 1st (that's roughly 2
weeks before the release date).

There are no other changes in Basque between October 23 and November
1st, they happened after the deadline (November 2nd)
https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/shortlog

Sadly, there's no way to ship updates to the release channel, new
strings can only ship to 58. We have been able to make some exceptions
in the past, but only at the beginning of the cycle and for very small
and significative changes (i.e. something was broken).

Francesco


2017-12-12 7:34 GMT-06:00 Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <[hidden email]>:

> Hi list,
>
> I've got a report from a user mentioning that some strings in Firefox 57
> (eu) are displayed in English. Strange, I thought, as the localization was
> 100% complete before the last merge day before 57 [1].
>
> Since cross-channel was already in effect in October [2], and its
> advertised feature was doing a fix once and not worrying about the rest of
> the channels (at least when working on Pontoon), I took for granted the
> latest changes I did in November right before the pre-57 merge day would be
> taken into account.
>
> I stopped caring about sign-offs long time ago, and out of curiosity now I
> checked what was the changeset used for our Firefox 57 [3], and it turns
> out it was quite an "old" change with respect to the fixes that happened
> later.
>
> So I'd like to clarify if my understanding of how strings should flow is
> correct or not. Was there some issue specific to this particular release
> perhaps? If that was the case, is there any solution that doesn't involve
> waiting for 58?
>
> Regards,
> Julen.
>
> [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar#Past_branch_dates
> [2] http://markmail.org/thread/oi7nowlqsyic52qv
> [3] https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/signoffs/eu/fx57#1010ee63a76a
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
Thanks for your replies folks.

2017-12-12 20:06 GMT+01:00 Francesco Lodolo <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hi,
> Sorry for the delay (currently traveling in US). Your expectations
> about cross-channel are correct, in this case the problem is about the
> technical deadlines to be able to ship anything in a release.
>
> Changeset for eu shipping in 57 is from October 23
> https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/rev/1010ee63a76a
>
> Deadline for shipping updates to 57 was November 1st (that's roughly 2
> weeks before the release date).

Okay, this deadline for shipping updates doesn't adjust to what I was
expecting. As mentioned, I've been purely relying on merge days as
listed in the wiki; does this mean I shouldn't?

As the 1st of November sounds new to me, and I haven't found
references to it on this list, I'm going to assume this date was set
on Pontoon. If that was the case, we should make this information more
prominent, and it'd be wise to automatize pinging people about
upcoming deadlines, so that surprises like these can be avoided in the
future.

Thanks again for your explanations and please let me know if I missed
any details.

Regards,
Julen.
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Michal Stanke-2
Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
emailed is generally next step for all notifications.

--
Michal Stanke

Dne 12. 12. 2017 17:17 napsal uživatel "Julen Ruiz Aizpuru" <
[hidden email]>:

> Thanks for your replies folks.
>
> 2017-12-12 20:06 GMT+01:00 Francesco Lodolo <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Sorry for the delay (currently traveling in US). Your expectations
> > about cross-channel are correct, in this case the problem is about the
> > technical deadlines to be able to ship anything in a release.
> >
> > Changeset for eu shipping in 57 is from October 23
> > https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/rev/1010ee63a76a
> >
> > Deadline for shipping updates to 57 was November 1st (that's roughly 2
> > weeks before the release date).
>
> Okay, this deadline for shipping updates doesn't adjust to what I was
> expecting. As mentioned, I've been purely relying on merge days as
> listed in the wiki; does this mean I shouldn't?
>
> As the 1st of November sounds new to me, and I haven't found
> references to it on this list, I'm going to assume this date was set
> on Pontoon. If that was the case, we should make this information more
> prominent, and it'd be wise to automatize pinging people about
> upcoming deadlines, so that surprises like these can be avoided in the
> future.
>
> Thanks again for your explanations and please let me know if I missed
> any details.
>
> Regards,
> Julen.
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Francesco Lodolo [:flod]
In reply to this post by Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
2017-12-12 17:16 GMT-06:00 Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <[hidden email]>:

> Thanks for your replies folks.
>
> 2017-12-12 20:06 GMT+01:00 Francesco Lodolo <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Sorry for the delay (currently traveling in US). Your expectations
>> about cross-channel are correct, in this case the problem is about the
>> technical deadlines to be able to ship anything in a release.
>>
>> Changeset for eu shipping in 57 is from October 23
>> https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/rev/1010ee63a76a
>>
>> Deadline for shipping updates to 57 was November 1st (that's roughly 2
>> weeks before the release date).
>
> Okay, this deadline for shipping updates doesn't adjust to what I was
> expecting. As mentioned, I've been purely relying on merge days as
> listed in the wiki; does this mean I shouldn't?

Merge day is still relevant for content moving from Nightly to Beta.
For example: 59 is currently in Nightly, if you want to make sure the
first beta of 59 is fully localized, you need to translate all the
content available by that date. At that point, for 59 to reach
release, there are another 4 weeks available to catch up, but not the
entire cycle.


> As the 1st of November sounds new to me, and I haven't found
> references to it on this list, I'm going to assume this date was set
> on Pontoon. If that was the case, we should make this information more
> prominent, and it'd be wise to automatize pinging people about
> upcoming deadlines, so that surprises like these can be avoided in the
> future.

The date is exposed as deadline in Pontoon, and it always happens at
the same time in the cycle (2 Wednesdays before release).

In particular for 57 we tried to overcommunicate that date, e.g. in
https://blog.mozilla.org/l10n/2017/10/11/l10n-report-october-edition/

And periodically on IRC and Telegram. Apparently we didn't send a
reminder on the mailing list.

Francesco


>
> Thanks again for your explanations and please let me know if I missed
> any details.
>
> Regards,
> Julen.
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Delphine L
In reply to this post by Michal Stanke-2
FWIW it was also stated in the l10n report and we communicated it via
Twitter and Facebook as well

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Michal Stanke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
> emailed is generally next step for all notifications.
>
> --
> Michal Stanke
>
> Dne 12. 12. 2017 17:17 napsal uživatel "Julen Ruiz Aizpuru" <
> [hidden email]>:
>
> > Thanks for your replies folks.
> >
> > 2017-12-12 20:06 GMT+01:00 Francesco Lodolo <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > > Sorry for the delay (currently traveling in US). Your expectations
> > > about cross-channel are correct, in this case the problem is about the
> > > technical deadlines to be able to ship anything in a release.
> > >
> > > Changeset for eu shipping in 57 is from October 23
> > > https://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/eu/rev/1010ee63a76a
> > >
> > > Deadline for shipping updates to 57 was November 1st (that's roughly 2
> > > weeks before the release date).
> >
> > Okay, this deadline for shipping updates doesn't adjust to what I was
> > expecting. As mentioned, I've been purely relying on merge days as
> > listed in the wiki; does this mean I shouldn't?
> >
> > As the 1st of November sounds new to me, and I haven't found
> > references to it on this list, I'm going to assume this date was set
> > on Pontoon. If that was the case, we should make this information more
> > prominent, and it'd be wise to automatize pinging people about
> > upcoming deadlines, so that surprises like these can be avoided in the
> > future.
> >
> > Thanks again for your explanations and please let me know if I missed
> > any details.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Julen.
> > _______________________________________________
> > dev-l10n mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
> >
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>



--
Delphine
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
In reply to this post by Michal Stanke-2
2017-12-13 0:20 GMT+01:00 Michal Stanke <[hidden email]>:
> Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
> emailed is generally next step for all notifications.

Personally I don't monitor Pontoon as I monitor email or this mailing
list, so having them emailed would definitely be best.

Julen.
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Matjaz Horvat-2
Pontoon Tools Add-On might come in handy:
https://addons.mozilla.org/sl/firefox/addon/pontoon-tools/

Cheers,
Matjaž

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:52 AM, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2017-12-13 0:20 GMT+01:00 Michal Stanke <[hidden email]>:
>> Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
>> emailed is generally next step for all notifications.
>
> Personally I don't monitor Pontoon as I monitor email or this mailing
> list, so having them emailed would definitely be best.
>
> Julen.
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Francesco Lodolo [:flod]
In reply to this post by Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
Assuming you're using Firefox in your day to day browsing, I would
strongly suggest to install this
https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/pontoon-tools/

Francesco

2017-12-12 17:52 GMT-06:00 Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <[hidden email]>:

> 2017-12-13 0:20 GMT+01:00 Michal Stanke <[hidden email]>:
>> Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
>> emailed is generally next step for all notifications.
>
> Personally I don't monitor Pontoon as I monitor email or this mailing
> list, so having them emailed would definitely be best.
>
> Julen.
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Julen Ruiz Aizpuru
Thanks for the pointers folks.

As I see me being away for vacation and business during different
parts of September and October didn't help, the same way as in my case
trusting on the release calendar and the mailing list didn't.

Pontoon tools can be useful, even though I don't see myself using it,
for the same reasons I'm not interested in having notifications in my
browser from other services I use or projects I take part in (and yes,
I do use Firefox as my primary browser ever since Phoenix).

Regardless of my workflow, I still believe automatically emailing
deadline notifications from Pontoon would be best.

Regards,
Julen.
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Re: On cross-channel and Fx 57

Eduardo Trápani
In reply to this post by Francesco Lodolo [:flod]
I know you've tried hard to communicate over all those channels but in
my case at least the mailing list is essential. I rely on it.

If something needs to be overcommunicated, then I'd suggest the mailing
list to be the starting place anyway.

Or you can check with other localizers. Maybe others would prefer to set
the default (main) channel to something else. I hope we can keep this
one, and also tool independence.

El 12/12/17 a las 20:54, Francesco Lodolo escribió:

> Assuming you're using Firefox in your day to day browsing, I would
> strongly suggest to install this
> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/pontoon-tools/
>
> Francesco
>
> 2017-12-12 17:52 GMT-06:00 Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <[hidden email]>:
>> 2017-12-13 0:20 GMT+01:00 Michal Stanke <[hidden email]>:
>>> Actually there are notifications for deadlines in Pontoon. Having them
>>> emailed is generally next step for all notifications.
>>
>> Personally I don't monitor Pontoon as I monitor email or this mailing
>> list, so having them emailed would definitely be best.
>>
>> Julen.
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-l10n mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
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