[OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

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[OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Matt Nordhoff
Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
questions.

You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
left out in the cold.

[1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>

(Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
hurt me, it's for a good cause!)
--
Matt Nordhoff, aka Peng
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Moz Champion (Dan)
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>
> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)


The feedback group is for suggestions or reports of bad web pages, to
bring them to the attention of developers

As it says on Hendrix
> Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us, so please do let us know what you think.

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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Moz Champion (Dan)
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> On 02/13/06 05:53, Matt Nordhoff wrote:
>> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
>> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
>> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of
>> the questions.
>>
>> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
>> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate
>> the email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
>> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should
>> note that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I
>> copy-and-paste the message at the bottom), and I don't like that most
>> of the people are left out in the cold.
>>
>> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>>
>> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
>> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
>> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)
>
> And, actually, I should've put that here, too.
>
> (Followup-to mozilla.general.)

As it says on the hendrix page
Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you
should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us,
so please do let us know what you think.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Moz Champion (Dan)
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>
> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)

mozilla.feedback is mostly for feedback from Hendrix
and users of such are warned NOT to expect personal replies
Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you
should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us,
so please do let us know what you think.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Moz Champion (Dan)
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>
> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)

The hendrix page has this disclaimer
Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you
should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us,
so please do let us know what you think.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Matt Nordhoff
In reply to this post by Moz Champion (Dan)
On 02/13/06 08:00, Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:
> mozilla.feedback is mostly for feedback from Hendrix
> and users of such are warned NOT to expect personal replies
> Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you
> should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us,
> so please do let us know what you think.

I know that very well Dan, but a lot of the people who submit questions
to Hendrix apparently don't. And sometimes, they are submitting a
genuine feature request, but it's already a feature in Firefox or
whatever or an extension will do it. I think it's nice to inform them of
that.

And some just simply misuse it. Maybe they deserve to be ignored because
they didn't read the not-so-fine print, but helping them out anyway is
the Nice Thing To Do.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>
> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)

Just the SMALL clubs please, and no spikes.

OK, I'm sympathetic, but why should people have to go to that much trouble to
help out somebody who can't be bothered to subscribe to a newsgroup?  In
general, I've found that, with a very few exceptions, "contact us" and
"feedback" mechanisms are absolutely worthless -- not only worthless, but
maddening in that after composing a long and detailed description of the
problem the SEND button doesn't even work.

I can't find a "mozilla.general" newsgroup -- there's
netscape.public.mozilla.general, mozilla.dev.general,
mozilla.web-developers.general and mozilla.support.general.  What's really
wanted here?

--
Cheers, Bev (Happy Linux User #85683, Slackware 10.2)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
  is not thus handicapped."
              -- Elbert Hubbard, American author

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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

gwtc-3
The Real Bev wrote:

> Matt Nordhoff wrote:
>
>
>>Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
>>the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
>>don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
>>questions.
>>
>>You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
>>respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
>>email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
>>unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
>>that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
>>message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
>>left out in the cold.
>>
>>[1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>>
>>(Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
>>mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
>>hurt me, it's for a good cause!)
>
>
> Just the SMALL clubs please, and no spikes.
>
> OK, I'm sympathetic, but why should people have to go to that much trouble to
> help out somebody who can't be bothered to subscribe to a newsgroup?  In
> general, I've found that, with a very few exceptions, "contact us" and
> "feedback" mechanisms are absolutely worthless -- not only worthless, but
> maddening in that after composing a long and detailed description of the
> problem the SEND button doesn't even work.
>
> I can't find a "mozilla.general" newsgroup -- there's

If you can't find it then how did you post this message to it?


> netscape.public.mozilla.general, mozilla.dev.general,
> mozilla.web-developers.general and mozilla.support.general.  What's really
> wanted here?
>


--
Time for a change
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Asrail
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff, 13-02-2006 08:53:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>

Thanks for excluding me.
I've started nine days ago, but I already have sent 14 messages ;).

Ah, I hadn't paid attention to BCC'ing them, I'll start doing it so now.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by gwtc-3
_gwtc_ spoke thusly on 13/02/2006 3:31 PM:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I can't find a "mozilla.general" newsgroup -- there's
>
> If you can't find it then how did you post this message to it?

Followup-to header was set.
--
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mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links <http://ilias.ca>
(Please do not email me tech support questions)
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Asrail
Chris Ilias, 14-02-2006 01:46:
> _gwtc_ spoke thusly on 13/02/2006 3:31 PM:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> I can't find a "mozilla.general" newsgroup -- there's
>>
>> If you can't find it then how did you post this message to it?
>
> Followup-to header was set.

I also couldn't find it, by the way.

Clicking with the right button in the news server name, clicking
Subscribe, then searching for "general".
This group isn't listed.
Also I can't see it when I view ***all*** of the groups in the server.

I've subscribed to it because someone have said it there was and I've
typed news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla/general in the address bar.

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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Ilias-2
_Asrail_ spoke thusly on 13/02/2006 9:59 PM:
> Clicking with the right button in the news server name, clicking
> Subscribe, then searching for "general".
> This group isn't listed.
> Also I can't see it when I view ***all*** of the groups in the server.

Refresh the list of groups in the subscribe window.
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mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links <http://ilias.ca>
(Please do not email me tech support questions)
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Thomas-3
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
Matt Nordhoff wrote:

> Could other people please help out in the mozilla.feedback group? I'm
> the only person who regularly (and not very regularly) does it, and I
> don't have good responses to or bother to try to respond to most of the
> questions.
>
> You should use Reply All since most of the people used Hendrix [1] to
> respond and aren't subscribed to the group, you have to unobfuscate the
> email address, and I think you should BCC them so that their
> unobfuscated email address does not appear in the group, and should note
> that at the bottom, but it's not /that/ difficult (I copy-and-paste the
> message at the bottom), and I don't like that most of the people are
> left out in the cold.
>
> [1] <http://hendrix.mozilla.org/>
>
> (Crossposted to mozilla.general, mozilla.support.seamonkey and
> mozilla.support.thunderbird; Followup-To mozilla.general. Please don't
> hurt me, it's for a good cause!)

Is there a way to filter it so I only see only messages about SeaMonkey?

Chris
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Paul B. Gallagher
In reply to this post by Moz Champion (Dan)
Moz Champion (Dan) wrote:

> As it says on the hendrix page
> Due to the number of suggestions and comments that are received, you
> should not expect a direct response. But your views are important to us,
> so please do let us know what you think.

Logically, that makes sense.

In the real world, people don't generally keep posting to a site if they
get silence in return. So if the developers really mean what they say
("your views are important to us"), they'll act the part and give at
least some strokes.

It's like when you're on hold waiting for tech support and they break
into the hold music every 30 seconds to tell you "your call is important
to us" but leave you on hold for an hour. What do you think people
believe -- the words or the reality?

I'm not upset -- I've never had occasion to post to mozilla.feedback.
Just a little perspective the developers seem to have overlooked.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Ilias-2
_Paul B. Gallagher_ spoke thusly on 14/02/2006 10:11 PM:

> In the real world, people don't generally keep posting to a site if they
> get silence in return. So if the developers really mean what they say
> ("your views are important to us"), they'll act the part and give at
> least some strokes.
>
> It's like when you're on hold waiting for tech support and they break
> into the hold music every 30 seconds to tell you "your call is important
> to us" but leave you on hold for an hour. What do you think people
> believe -- the words or the reality?
>
> I'm not upset -- I've never had occasion to post to mozilla.feedback.
> Just a little perspective the developers seem to have overlooked.

Hendrix is not a support venue. It's a feedback system. In fact, the
first thing it says it "This is Hendrix - the mozilla.org system for
leaving quick feedback on and suggestions for our products. Looking for
support? See our support pages."
And support pages is linked to <http://www.mozilla.org/support/>.
--
Chris Ilias
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links <http://ilias.ca>
(Please do not email me tech support questions)
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Matt Nordhoff
On 02/15/06 03:00, Chris Ilias wrote:
> Hendrix is not a support venue. It's a feedback system. In fact, the
> first thing it says it "This is Hendrix - the mozilla.org system for
> leaving quick feedback on and suggestions for our products. Looking for
> support? See our support pages."
> And support pages is linked to <http://www.mozilla.org/support/>.

Frequently, suggestions people suggest via Hendrix are already available
or are done by an extension. That warrants a response.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Matt Nordhoff
In reply to this post by Asrail
On 02/13/06 21:37, Asrail wrote:
> Thanks for excluding me.
> I've started nine days ago, but I already have sent 14 messages ;).
>
> Ah, I hadn't paid attention to BCC'ing them, I'll start doing it so now.

Eep. I apologize. I haven't been the most dedicated to posting in
mozilla.feedback, and I had missed you.
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Ilias-2
In reply to this post by Matt Nordhoff
_Matt Nordhoff_ spoke thusly on 16/02/2006 4:18 PM:
> On 02/15/06 03:00, Chris Ilias wrote:
>> Hendrix is not a support venue. It's a feedback system. In fact, the
>> first thing it says it "This is Hendrix - the mozilla.org system for
>> leaving quick feedback on and suggestions for our products. Looking for
>> support? See our support pages."
>> And support pages is linked to <http://www.mozilla.org/support/>.
>
> Frequently, suggestions people suggest via Hendrix are already available
> or are done by an extension. That warrants a response.

If you want to respond, go ahead. There's nothing wrong with that, as
long as the user is not expecting a response, and treating it like some
sort of support venue. It's not the equivalent of "waiting on hold" to
talk to someone.
--
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mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links <http://ilias.ca>
(Please do not email me tech support questions)
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Paul B. Gallagher
Chris Ilias wrote:

> _Matt Nordhoff_ spoke thusly on 16/02/2006 4:18 PM:
>
>> On 02/15/06 03:00, Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Hendrix is not a support venue. It's a feedback system. In fact,
>>> the first thing it says it "This is Hendrix - the mozilla.org
>>> system for leaving quick feedback on and suggestions for our
>>> products. Looking for support? See our support pages." And
>>> support pages is linked to <http://www.mozilla.org/support/>.
>>
>> Frequently, suggestions people suggest via Hendrix are already
>> available or are done by an extension. That warrants a response.
>
> If you want to respond, go ahead. There's nothing wrong with that, as
> long as the user is not expecting a response, and treating it like
> some sort of support venue. It's not the equivalent of "waiting on
> hold" to talk to someone.

OK, my analogy might have been off the mark (I did understand that it's
not a support venue), but the point is valid. If people don't get any
reward, or even a clue that someone is listening, they'll stop
contributing. It's just basic human nature, most normal people want at
least an acknowledgement, it doesn't have to be a trip to the Bahamas.

If the developers are satisfied hearing only from obsessive-compulsive
geeks, that's fine, whatever. If they want to hear from real-world users
(who BTW make up over 90% of their customers), they need to encourage or
stroke them at least a little.

And as I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, this is just FYI.

--
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Re: [OT] Please help in mozilla.feedback.

Chris Ilias-2
_Paul B. Gallagher_ spoke thusly on 18/02/2006 12:30 AM:

> OK, my analogy might have been off the mark (I did understand that it's
> not a support venue), but the point is valid. If people don't get any
> reward, or even a clue that someone is listening, they'll stop
> contributing. It's just basic human nature, most normal people want at
> least an acknowledgement, it doesn't have to be a trip to the Bahamas.
>
> If the developers are satisfied hearing only from obsessive-compulsive
> geeks, that's fine, whatever. If they want to hear from real-world users
> (who BTW make up over 90% of their customers), they need to encourage or
> stroke them at least a little.

Please don't insult people's intelligence by:
- suggesting devs are 'satisfied' only getting feedback from 'geeks'
- telling us something incredibly obvious as that the majority of users
are not 'geeks'

A personal response acknowledging that feedback has been read is nice;
but in this case, it says right on the Hendrix homepage, not to expect a
response; and in most cases, personal responses to feedback are automated.

The best response is to implement improvements, based on the feedback.
--
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mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
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