New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

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New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

B00ze
Good day.

Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
what you think:

https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey

Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.

Regards,

--
! _\|/_  Sylvain / [hidden email]
! (o o)   Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo  Locutous for Pontiac: Excitment is irrelivent.

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

David E. Ross-3
On 1/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:

> Good day.
>
> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
> what you think:
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> Regards,
>

When I tried to submit the completed survey, I got repeated "It's taking
longer than usual to submit your response.  Please leave this page open
and we'll keep trying.  Retrying in xxxs", with the xxx larger at each
repeat of the message.  I quit when xxx indicated 10 minutes.

I made two comments in the survey that I consider significant.

*  I installed Rise of the Tools extension to place the tab bar below
the menu and tool bars, where I think it really belongs.  That is
because much of the menu and tool bars apply to all tabs.  I also
installed the No Glass theme to restore color to the icons in the tool
bar in order to make it easier to find specific buttons.  These two
add-ons effectively restore what was a good user interface in place of
the trashed user interface that was introduced into Thunderbird several
versions ago.

*  A major principle of user interface design requires that users should
not have to relearn how to use the application.  From what I see of the
proposed new user interface, that principle is being violated.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

President Trump:  Please stop using Twitter.  We need
to hear your voice and see you talking.  We need to know
when your message is really your own and not your attorney's.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

Peter-262
In reply to this post by B00ze
On 1/17/2018 1:22 AM, B00ze wrote:

> Good day.
>
> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
> Thunderbird what you think:
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
>  Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a
> bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> Regards,
>

What "new look"??  I'm using Tb 52.5.2 (32 bit) from the release update
channel, on a Win 10 PC, where the Help - About popup page tells me that
this version is up to date.  I haven't noticed any change in my GUI for
many months.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
On 1/17/18 8:16 AM, Peter wrote:

> On 1/17/2018 1:22 AM, B00ze wrote:
>> Good day.
>>
>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>> Thunderbird what you think:
>>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>>  Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
>> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a
>> bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
> What "new look"??  I'm using Tb 52.5.2 (32 bit) from the release
> update channel, on a Win 10 PC, where the Help - About popup page
> tells me that this version is up to date.  I haven't noticed any
> change in my GUI for many months.


It is a redesign that the developers want feedback on. Obviously you
didn't look at the Monterail design image in the survey.

Note that the new toolbar icons are in the latest Daily builds.

In case you missed the link.

https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey

and if you want to add it to your 52.5.2 now.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/monterail/


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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

tanstaafl-2
In reply to this post by B00ze
On Wed Jan 17 2018 01:22:24 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), B00ze
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
> what you think:
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.

One thing I just don't understand is all the hubbub...

It is just a THEME, for chrissake, it is NOT a 'new interface', unless
you consider it in that context.

I personally hate it, but I also understand 'different strokes for
different folks', and if someone decides to try to make it the new
default theme, I certainly hope they keep the existing one as a
secondary for those of us who don't like it.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by B00ze
On 2018-01-17 01:22, B00ze wrote:

> Good day.
>
> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
> what you think:
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> Regards,


I've never seen so many irrelevant survey questions in my life.
"Professional" or not? Oh, give me a break, that's just fashion. What
are they thinking? Trying to keep up with fashion is a mug's game.

If they want to change the "look", then make it more easily
customisable. Eg, change placement/display of elements, background
colours, fonts. NB how often peo9ple here have looked for a way to make
Tbird easier to read, etc.

The proposed default theme is blah, just like the current one. I just
want to be able to change it to suit myself. I don't like that weird
green, for starters.

And that's my 2 cents CAD (1.6 cents USD) worth.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
On 1/17/18 9:43 AM, Wolf K wrote:
> If they want to change the "look", then make it more easily
> customisable. Eg, change placement/display of elements, background
> colours, fonts. NB how often peo9ple here have looked for a way to
> make Tbird easier to read, etc.
>
> The proposed default theme is blah, just like the current one. I just
> want to be able to change it to suit myself. I don't like that weird
> green, for starters.


Of course you filled out the survey and included those comments.

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
In reply to this post by B00ze
On 1/17/18 9:18 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
> I certainly hope they keep the existing one as a
> secondary for those of us who don't like it.

Of course you filled out the survey and included those comments.

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 2018-01-17 09:51, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 1/17/18 9:43 AM, Wolf K wrote:
>> If they want to change the "look", then make it more easily
>> customisable. Eg, change placement/display of elements, background
>> colours, fonts. NB how often peo9ple here have looked for a way to
>> make Tbird easier to read, etc.
>>
>> The proposed default theme is blah, just like the current one. I just
>> want to be able to change it to suit myself. I don't like that weird
>> green, for starters.
>
>
> Of course you filled out the survey and included those comments.
>

Of course.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

EE-2
In reply to this post by B00ze
B00ze wrote:

> Good day.
>
> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
> what you think:
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> Regards,
>
Why did that survey page not load with SeaMonkey?  I had to use Pale
Moon to access it.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

Ed Mullen-10
On 1/17/2018 at 11:50 AM, EE created this epitome of digital genius:

> B00ze wrote:
>> Good day.
>>
>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>> Thunderbird what you think:
>>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing,
>> and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one
>> of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
> Why did that survey page not load with SeaMonkey?  I had to use Pale
> Moon to access it.

Loaded fine here with SM 2.49.1.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Don't bother me. I'm living happily ever after.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by B00ze
On 01/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:
> Good day.
>
> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
> what you think:

I liked Netscape.  I had a nice mottled background for the message pane
that made the text stand out attractively.  TB is fine just the way it
is.  Making it ugly isn't going to attract more users.

> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.

Everything has too much white space.  Moreover, they should have had a
big GO TO SURVEY button.

--
Cheers, Bev
    Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely
    because I have a pet halibut?           --Monty Python
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
In reply to this post by EE-2
On 1/17/18 11:50 AM, EE wrote:

> B00ze wrote:
>> Good day.
>>
>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>> Thunderbird what you think:
>>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
>> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a
>> bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
> Why did that survey page not load with SeaMonkey?  I had to use Pale
> Moon to access it.


Was that after you used safe mode or tried a new profile, or have you
forgotten basic troubleshooting steps?

The page loads in my SeaMonkey 2.49.1 on Ubuntu Linux.

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
On 1/17/18 11:55 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 01/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:
>> Good day.
>>
>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
>> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
>> what you think:
>
> I liked Netscape.  I had a nice mottled background for the message
> pane that made the text stand out attractively.  TB is fine just the
> way it is.  Making it ugly isn't going to attract more users.
>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
>> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
>> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
>> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> Everything has too much white space.  Moreover, they should have had a
> big GO TO SURVEY button.
>
How big do you want it?

https://screenshots.firefox.com/5nU2gx0MLVkwgPB8/www.monterail.com

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

Endegee
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 17-Jan-2018 09:12, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 1/17/18 8:16 AM, Peter wrote:
>> On 1/17/2018 1:22 AM, B00ze wrote:
>>> Good day.
>>>
>>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>>> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>>> Thunderbird what you think:
>>>
>>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>>
>>>  Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
>>> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a
>>> bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>
>> What "new look"??  I'm using Tb 52.5.2 (32 bit) from the release
>> update channel, on a Win 10 PC, where the Help - About popup page
>> tells me that this version is up to date.  I haven't noticed any
>> change in my GUI for many months.
>
>
> It is a redesign that the developers want feedback on. Obviously you
> didn't look at the Monterail design image in the survey.
>
> Note that the new toolbar icons are in the latest Daily builds.
>
> In case you missed the link.
>
> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>
> and if you want to add it to your 52.5.2 now.
>
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/monterail/
>
>

I'm not going near this ugly looking thing.
Is this another Mozilla screw-up like Firefox Australis and Quantum?
Sad but I think it's time to abandoned everything coming from Mozilla.

...and yes I have done the survey and let them know exactly what I think
of it.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
On 1/17/18 12:36 PM, Endegee wrote:

> On 17-Jan-2018 09:12, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 1/17/18 8:16 AM, Peter wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2018 1:22 AM, B00ze wrote:
>>>> Good day.
>>>>
>>>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>>>> old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>>>> Thunderbird what you think:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>>>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
>>>> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a
>>>> bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>
>>> What "new look"??  I'm using Tb 52.5.2 (32 bit) from the release
>>> update channel, on a Win 10 PC, where the Help - About popup page
>>> tells me that this version is up to date.  I haven't noticed any
>>> change in my GUI for many months.
>>
>>
>> It is a redesign that the developers want feedback on. Obviously you
>> didn't look at the Monterail design image in the survey.
>>
>> Note that the new toolbar icons are in the latest Daily builds.
>>
>> In case you missed the link.
>>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>> and if you want to add it to your 52.5.2 now.
>>
>> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/monterail/
>>
>>
>
> I'm not going near this ugly looking thing.
> Is this another Mozilla screw-up like Firefox Australis and Quantum?
> Sad but I think it's time to abandoned everything coming from Mozilla.
>
> ...and yes I have done the survey and let them know exactly what I
> think of it.


Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird except for providing a legal
and fiscal home for now

https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/2017/05/thunderbirds-future-home/

https://blog.mozilla.org/thunderbird/2017/12/new-thunderbird-releases-and-new-thunderbird-staff/

They are constantly fighting battles that Mozilla makes in Firefox code
that is shared with Thunderbird.



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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 01/17/2018 09:06 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 1/17/18 11:55 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 01/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:
>>> Good day.
>>>
>>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
>>> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
>>> what you think:
>>
>> I liked Netscape.  I had a nice mottled background for the message
>> pane that made the text stand out attractively.  TB is fine just the
>> way it is.  Making it ugly isn't going to attract more users.
>>
>>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>>
>>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
>>> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
>>> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
>>> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>
>> Everything has too much white space.  Moreover, they should have had a
>> big GO TO SURVEY button.
>>
> How big do you want it?
>
> https://screenshots.firefox.com/5nU2gx0MLVkwgPB8/www.monterail.com

I didn't see that anywhere.  I saw a number of boxes saying "This
wouldn't load" or equivalent.  Ultimately I clicked on the red text
survey link.  Perhaps you need a newer version of FF than 52ESR/linux.
A LOT of shit doesn't work with 52ESR/linux.  Or 57/linux.

--
Cheers, Bev
   It's 95% of the lawyers making the other 5% look bad.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

WaltS48-8
On 1/17/18 1:20 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 01/17/2018 09:06 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 1/17/18 11:55 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 01/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:
>>>> Good day.
>>>>
>>>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the
>>>> old
>>>> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell
>>>> Thunderbird
>>>> what you think:
>>>
>>> I liked Netscape.  I had a nice mottled background for the message
>>> pane that made the text stand out attractively.  TB is fine just the
>>> way it is.  Making it ugly isn't going to attract more users.
>>>
>>>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>>>> spaced-out
>>>> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm
>>>> not
>>>> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
>>>> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>>>
>>> Everything has too much white space.  Moreover, they should have had a
>>> big GO TO SURVEY button.
>>>
>> How big do you want it?
>>
>> https://screenshots.firefox.com/5nU2gx0MLVkwgPB8/www.monterail.com
>
> I didn't see that anywhere.  I saw a number of boxes saying "This
> wouldn't load" or equivalent.  Ultimately I clicked on the red text
> survey link.  Perhaps you need a newer version of FF than 52ESR/linux.
> A LOT of shit doesn't work with 52ESR/linux.  Or 57/linux.
>
It does if you don't block everything.

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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

The Real Bev
On 01/17/2018 12:20 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 1/17/18 1:20 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 01/17/2018 09:06 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 1/17/18 11:55 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 01/16/2018 10:22 PM, B00ze wrote:
>>>>> Good day.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and
>>>>> prefer the old interface (the older the better, TB2 looked
>>>>> real good). Tell Thunderbird what you think:
>>>>
>>>> I liked Netscape.  I had a nice mottled background for the
>>>> message pane that made the text stand out attractively.  TB is
>>>> fine just the way it is.  Making it ugly isn't going to attract
>>>> more users.
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so
>>>>> spaced-out it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just
>>>>> confusing, and I'm not a big fan of the dark folder list. It
>>>>> looks a bit like one of Microsoft's crap Apps that come with
>>>>> Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>> Everything has too much white space.  Moreover, they should
>>>> have had a big GO TO SURVEY button.
>>>>
>>> How big do you want it?
>>>
>>> https://screenshots.firefox.com/5nU2gx0MLVkwgPB8/www.monterail.com
>>
>>I didn't see that anywhere.  I saw a number of boxes saying "This
>> wouldn't load" or equivalent.  Ultimately I clicked on the red
>> text survey link.  Perhaps you need a newer version of FF than
>> 52ESR/linux. A LOT of shit doesn't work with 52ESR/linux.  Or
>> 57/linux.
>>
> It does if you don't block everything.

You're 80% correct.  In safe mode in 52 and 57 I saw a red button.   In
'normal' (block every goddam ad in existence) all I saw were red
letters, centered.  I missed that when I was scrolling down the first
time looking for an actual button.  I went up to the top and searched
for the word 'survey' and the first link I saw was 'a research survey'
in red in-line text, a few lines above the centered red text.

It's a monumental pain to restart in safe mode just to see a web page.
How hard is it to make a button that doesn't trigger adblock extensions?

Many surveys are designed poorly.  Given the nature of the questions, as
well as my difficulty noted above, this is one of them.

--
Cheers, Bev
   A recent psychic fair was cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances.
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Re: New Thunderbird "Look" Survey

B00ze
In reply to this post by B00ze
On 2018-01-17 09:18, Tanstaafl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed Jan 17 2018 01:22:24 GMT-0500, B00ze <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well, maybe you'll like it, or maybe you are like me and prefer the old
>> interface (the older the better, TB2 looked real good). Tell Thunderbird
>> what you think:
>>
>> https://www.monterail.com/blog/thunderbird-new-interface-redesign-survey
>>
>> Personally, I think the message list in the screenshot is so spaced-out
>> it will be useless; the calendar "gauge" is just confusing, and I'm not
>> a big fan of the dark folder list. It looks a bit like one of
>> Microsoft's crap Apps that come with Windows 10.
>
> One thing I just don't understand is all the hubbub...

It's important for us to give feedback, hence I posted the survey here...

> It is just a THEME, for chrissake, it is NOT a 'new interface', unless
> you consider it in that context.

Yes, it's just a theme, but it will become the default and then maybe
the ONLY one, one day. I'm with you and David, I prefer my current theme
(Ignore Aero) which is basically TB3 (there is also a TB2 theme out
there, which looks awesome, but it has a bug). I think maybe what's
important is that when they reprogram TB, they provide a full-theme API;
screw Firefox and its "no theme allowed" mentality.

> I personally hate it, but I also understand 'different strokes for
> different folks', and if someone decides to try to make it the new
> default theme, I certainly hope they keep the existing one as a
> secondary for those of us who don't like it.

Regards,

--
! _\|/_  Sylvain / [hidden email]
! (o o)   Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo  "We are out of penicillin, Commander!" -Crusher

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