Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

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Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Simon Paquet-3
Hi guys,

there was some talk on the Mozilla Summit about the need of a separate
l10n newsgroup which would just contain important announcements (e.g.
release schedules, string freeze announcements, etc.), because some think
that as this newsgroup/mailinglist is very active, it's sometimes too
easy to miss important announcements.

So I would be interested in getting to hear the thoughts from people
here. Do you think that a separate announcement-only newsgroup would make
life easier for you, or do you believe that one group is definitely
enough?

>From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would
mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much everybod here.
Announcements would be crossposted to the regular l10n newsgroup and
followups to those announcements would be automatically redirected to the
regular newsgroup (via the Followup-To header).

What do you guys think?

Cya
Simon Paquet
--
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Iacopo Benesperi
Simon Paquet ha scritto:
> So I would be interested in getting to hear the thoughts from people
> here. Do you think that a separate announcement-only newsgroup would make
> life easier for you, or do you believe that one group is definitely
> enough?

I think that a separate newsgroup would be great.

my 2 cents,
Iacopo
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

armenzg
mozilla.dev.l10n.planning?
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

flod
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
Simon Paquet ha scritto:
> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist.
Sounds good to me, also considering that many of us are already
subscribed to a second mailing list (l10n-web), so a third wouldn't be a
burden.

Francesco
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by armenzg
armenzg wrote on 05. Aug 2008:

> mozilla.dev.l10n.planning?

IMO we should discuss the naming after we've reached some kind of
consensus here.

Simon

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Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Sarves K
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would

++
Moderated mailinglist is a good idea.

/Sarves
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Axel Hecht
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
Simon Paquet wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> there was some talk on the Mozilla Summit about the need of a separate
> l10n newsgroup which would just contain important announcements (e.g.
> release schedules, string freeze announcements, etc.), because some think
> that as this newsgroup/mailinglist is very active, it's sometimes too
> easy to miss important announcements.
>
> So I would be interested in getting to hear the thoughts from people
> here. Do you think that a separate announcement-only newsgroup would make
> life easier for you, or do you believe that one group is definitely
> enough?
>
> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would
> mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much everybod here.
> Announcements would be crossposted to the regular l10n newsgroup and
> followups to those announcements would be automatically redirected to the
> regular newsgroup (via the Followup-To header).
>

Do we have a technical implementation for moderated lists?

Should those be just mail, or google/news mirrors, too?

Should this be per product, or one for all of browser/mail/calendar/fennec?

Who'd be allowed to post? Would we require subscribing, or would this
just be a CC for regular posts to .l10n?

Axel
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Simon Paquet-2
Axel Hecht wrote on 05. Aug 2008:

>> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see
>> this implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist.
>> That would mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much
>> everybody here. Announcements would be crossposted to the regular
>> l10n newsgroup and followups to those announcements would be
>> automatically redirected to the regular newsgroup (via the
>> Followup-To header).
>
> Do we have a technical implementation for moderated lists?

I think we have. As far as I know there are a variety of moderated
mailing lists in the mozilla community.

> Should those be just mail, or google/news mirrors, too?

I think it should be done just as the current newsgroups, so that we
would have a moderated newsgroup, which would also be gated into a
moderated mailing list.

> Should this be per product, or one for all of
> browser/mail/calendar/fennec?

Speaking with my mail/calendar hat on, I don't think that there will
be many announcements coming from us. Probably just one or two per
month on average. From what I see in the Firefox space, it seems to
be similar there as well, so one group should be more than sufficient.

> Who'd be allowed to post?

You, Mic, Seth, Pascal, me?

> Would we require subscribing, or would this just be a CC for regular
> posts to .l10n?

As I said, people posting to that group should make sure, that they
crosspost to md.l10n and set a F'up2 to that group. That way questions
and comments can be answered and discussed in md.l10n as before.

Simon

--
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Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Iacopo Benesperi
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
Axel Hecht ha scritto:
> Should those be just mail, or google/news mirrors, too?

Google groups mirroring is automatic if I'm not wrong

> Should this be per product, or one for all of browser/mail/calendar/fennec?

One for every product

> Who'd be allowed to post? Would we require subscribing, or would this
> just be a CC for regular posts to .l10n?

People who plan releases and give announcements (such as Simon, you,
KaiRo) should be able to write, and only them. I think the best idea is
to make a new subscribable ng.

bye,
Iacopo
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Filip Miletic-4
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
Simon Paquet schreef:
> What do you guys think?

Great idea.  It is a good way not to miss important announcements and
deadlines.  Not that those couldn't be a little saner, though. :)

I opt for a 'push' approach, i.e. either a mailing list or a RSS feed,
but I guess this can be set up through external tools.

So newsgroup is fine, mailing list better (mozilla.dev.l10n.announce?)

f
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Arjuna Rao Chavala
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
On Aug 5, 4:12 am, Simon Paquet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> there was some talk on the Mozilla Summit about the need of a separate
> l10n newsgroup which would just contain important announcements (e.g.
> release schedules, string freeze announcements, etc.), because some think
> that as this newsgroup/mailinglist is very active, it's sometimes too
> easy to miss important announcements.
>
> So I would be interested in getting to hear the thoughts from people
> here. Do you think that a separate announcement-only newsgroup would make
> life easier for you, or do you believe that one group is definitely
> enough?
>
> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would
> mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much everybod here.
> Announcements would be crossposted to the regular l10n newsgroup and
> followups to those announcements would be automatically redirected to the
> regular newsgroup (via the Followup-To header).
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> Cya
> Simon Paquet
> --
> Thunderbird/Calendar Localisation (l10n) Coordinator

Are not there alternate and probably better ways to reach to the
active contributors, like may be using the CVS(now hg) web access
holders for announcement communication or use of wiki posts and
subscription through Newsreaders by interested people?

Thanks
Arjun
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Novica Nakov
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3

> What do you guys think?

For me the [ANNOUNCE] prefix in the subject seems like an easy solution.

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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Asrail
In reply to this post by Arjuna Rao Chavala
arjuna, 06-08-2008 21:45:
> Are not there alternate and probably better ways to reach to the
> active contributors, like may be using the CVS(now hg) web access
> holders for announcement communication or use of wiki posts and
> subscription through Newsreaders by interested people?

I agreed here.

The idea of another way to reach the contributors is nice, but a mailing
list with 3 allowed posters doesn't sound like a great idea.

A common blog, site or planet (whatever) with RSS feed is another option.


The localizer would be able to choose between to subscribe to one feed,
all feeds or use the planet.mozilla.org to read the announcements -
assuming some of the localizers read every entry on pmo.


So, when posting there they could post a copy to this list.

As Novica said, a prefix is a clean and easy solution.

Well... someone only subscribed to an almost read-only mailing list
would miss important posts from other contributors.

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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Gervase Markham
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
Simon Paquet wrote:
> there was some talk on the Mozilla Summit about the need of a separate
> l10n newsgroup which would just contain important announcements (e.g.
> release schedules, string freeze announcements, etc.), because some think
> that as this newsgroup/mailinglist is very active, it's sometimes too
> easy to miss important announcements.

If you decide to do this, just file a bug to create
mozilla.dev.l10n.announce (seems like the obvious name; other .planning
newsgroups are for discussion), with the names of the moderators.

This way you get mail, newsgroups and Google Group all in one package,
and it's related to the current group and in the Mozilla namespace.

Gerv
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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Stefan Plewako
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
Simon Paquet wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> there was some talk on the Mozilla Summit about the need of a separate
> l10n newsgroup which would just contain important announcements (e.g.
> release schedules, string freeze announcements, etc.), because some think
> that as this newsgroup/mailinglist is very active, it's sometimes too
> easy to miss important announcements.
>
> So I would be interested in getting to hear the thoughts from people
> here. Do you think that a separate announcement-only newsgroup would make
> life easier for you, or do you believe that one group is definitely
> enough?
>
>  From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would
> mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much everybod here.
> Announcements would be crossposted to the regular l10n newsgroup and
> followups to those announcements would be automatically redirected to the
> regular newsgroup (via the Followup-To header).
>
> What do you guys think?

Maybe shared calendar and posts with "[ANNOUNCE]" prefix on current list would be better?

While we want still be able to discuss (following to another group just to check if there is important discussion don't looks so great) and want some other "push" way to reach people, the calendar event with link to related group post (and dates and so on) seems to be best solution for me.
(with google like calendar it would be even more flexible solution)


Stef

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Re: Need for a low-volume, high-signal, low-noise l10n newsgroup/mailinglist

Ville Pohjanheimo
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-3
05/08/08 02:12, Simon Paquet kirjoitti:

>
> From a process point of view, the way that I would like to see this
> implemented would be via a moderated newsgroup/mailinglist. That would
> mean that the group would be read-only for pretty much everybod here.
> Announcements would be crossposted to the regular l10n newsgroup and
> followups to those announcements would be automatically redirected to the
> regular newsgroup (via the Followup-To header).
>
> What do you guys think?
>

I vote for upholding a sort of KISS principle (Keep It Simple Simon ;)
): One moderated newsgroup like the one proposed and supported by most
people in this thread. That way those people that want a
planet/blog/rss/mail can all have their way through one gateway or another.

Especially during release/peak announcement times it would be probably
be nice for some people to have keywords (e.g. TB/FF/etc in the message
subject) with which to filter messages, but I think Axel was right not
trusting anyone with such a system (mentioned in passing at the Summit).
So I'd ignore trying to have special, set keywords in subjects as that
will just fail.

The only other issue in my mind is that the people with send/write
rights should make up their minds (between themselves) on what is legit
to announce on the list. My 2 cents is that all "action needed" items
should be announced. With "action needed" being posts that simply
require action to be taken by localizers (usually because not taking
action will block your release).

cheers,
ville/mozilla.fi
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