Mozilla Live Access CD

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Mozilla Live Access CD

Aaron Leventhal-3
The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A
lot of people were disappointed not to get one! :)

Charles, can you post the ISO image for the
Mozilla live access CD and send the URL to this
newsgroup?

My thoughts for the CD:
1. The launcher should streamline access to all
the apps -- basically fix it so the DOS Window
doesn't come up, and so that the docs get read
right off the bat.
2. We need to find a way so that users are less
confused by the launcher. Perhaps it shouldn't be
called a start menu, since that sounds like the
Windows start menu. I think it should say "Mozilla
live access launcher" or "Mozilla live access
chooser" or something like that. We need to
clarify what Click, Speak is so that users who
need a full screen reader realize it's not
intended for that.
3. In general I'd like to ask folks to think of
ideas for the launcher. I think we can simplify it
by always using the high visibility theme on the
CD. Right now the high visibility theme almost
doubles the choices in the launcher drop down.
But, we don't allow it to be used with NVDA. Why
not just run the high visibility theme every time
-- this is an a11y CD after all.
4. Currently the launcher dialog doesn't say the
typical things that a dialog with a combo box
would say in the typical screen reader. That may
be disorienting.
5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already
running, it doesn't relaunch itself. Two running
copies of NVDA cause problems. In fact, the
launcher should probably just end any running copy
of NVDA before it runs whatever the user asks,
unless they're just running with NVDA again.
6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point,
so that this can be a true community project.
Anyone disagree? Charles will probably object to
open sourcing his launcher.
7. If/when we get an open source launcher, would
someone set up a mozdev.org project for this? That
would allow us to log issues in the bug tracker,
among other advantages.
8. I like keeping everything on one CD for now,
instead of trying to separate it by type of
disability. It will be much easier to avoid giving
out multiple CD's to teachers, etc. that way, and
we don't have to choose how many of each to build
for each conference.

- Aaron
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RE: Mozilla Live Access CD

Sina Bahram
In case this helps

Inno setup is a nice and accessible open source installer.

Take care,
Sina
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Aaron
Leventhal
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:20 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: Victor Tsaran; Michael Curran
Subject: Mozilla Live Access CD

The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A lot of people were
disappointed not to get one! :)

Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla live access CD and send
the URL to this newsgroup?

My thoughts for the CD:
1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps -- basically fix it
so the DOS Window doesn't come up, and so that the docs get read right off
the bat.
2. We need to find a way so that users are less confused by the launcher.
Perhaps it shouldn't be called a start menu, since that sounds like the
Windows start menu. I think it should say "Mozilla live access launcher" or
"Mozilla live access chooser" or something like that. We need to clarify
what Click, Speak is so that users who need a full screen reader realize
it's not intended for that.
3. In general I'd like to ask folks to think of ideas for the launcher. I
think we can simplify it by always using the high visibility theme on the
CD. Right now the high visibility theme almost doubles the choices in the
launcher drop down.
But, we don't allow it to be used with NVDA. Why not just run the high
visibility theme every time
-- this is an a11y CD after all.
4. Currently the launcher dialog doesn't say the typical things that a
dialog with a combo box would say in the typical screen reader. That may be
disorienting.
5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already running, it doesn't relaunch
itself. Two running copies of NVDA cause problems. In fact, the launcher
should probably just end any running copy of NVDA before it runs whatever
the user asks, unless they're just running with NVDA again.
6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this can be a
true community project.
Anyone disagree? Charles will probably object to open sourcing his launcher.
7. If/when we get an open source launcher, would someone set up a mozdev.org
project for this? That would allow us to log issues in the bug tracker,
among other advantages.
8. I like keeping everything on one CD for now, instead of trying to
separate it by type of disability. It will be much easier to avoid giving
out multiple CD's to teachers, etc. that way, and we don't have to choose
how many of each to build for each conference.

- Aaron
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility

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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Charles Chen-2
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
 >>Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla
 >>live access CD and send the URL to this newsgroup?
http://clcworld.net/moz_csun_2007_iso.zip



 >>1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps --
 >>basically fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up,
That was only to launch both NVDA and Firefox. If we were launching one
app at a time, it wouldn't be a problem.

 >>and so that the docs get read right off the bat.
But what about picking the app to read the docs with? It seems like this
solution only makes sense if the app itself has some sort of basic text
reader...
Personally, I think selecting the apps from the drop down and then
choosing "about this cd" is a good solution. It can be improved by
giving the reading commands depending on which app was selected (for
example, having the title bar mention Ctrl Shift A for Fire Vox). More
energy should probably be focused on #3 - helping users choose the right
application for their needs.

 >>Why not just run the high visibility theme
 >>every time -- this is an a11y CD after all.
Because sighted users with dyslexia or other cognitive impairments may
not want to see everything in extra large font. Maybe high visibility
theme should be the default choice with the regular themes later down
the list, but I really don't think that high visibility should be the
only choice.


 >>5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already
 >>running, it doesn't relaunch itself.
 >>Two running copies of NVDA cause problems.
 >>In fact, the launcher should probably
 >>just end any running copy of NVDA before
 >>it runs whatever the user asks,
 >>unless they're just running with NVDA again.
It seems like NVDA should just detect if it is a running process, and if
it is, it should terminate itself (or refuse to launch a second
instance). Making the launcher enforce the number of instances doesn't
seem like a good solution since it means that users who have a copy of
NVDA on their hard drives could still start NVDA twice by accident.

Also, my understanding is that this is a known problem in NVDA and that
Mick is going to fix it...


 >>6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this
 >>can be a true community project. Anyone disagree?
 >>Charles will probably object to open sourcing his launcher.
Aaron, I would like to discuss this one over the phone. We can talk
sometime this week if you want (or after April 5 if that's easier for
you). But I think we can reach an agreement on this.


-Charles



> The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A lot of people were
> disappointed not to get one! :)
>
> Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla live access CD and
> send the URL to this newsgroup?
>
> My thoughts for the CD:
> 1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps -- basically
> fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up, and so that the docs get read
> right off the bat.
> 2. We need to find a way so that users are less confused by the
> launcher. Perhaps it shouldn't be called a start menu, since that sounds
> like the Windows start menu. I think it should say "Mozilla live access
> launcher" or "Mozilla live access chooser" or something like that. We
> need to clarify what Click, Speak is so that users who need a full
> screen reader realize it's not intended for that.
> 3. In general I'd like to ask folks to think of ideas for the launcher.
> I think we can simplify it by always using the high visibility theme on
> the CD. Right now the high visibility theme almost doubles the choices
> in the launcher drop down. But, we don't allow it to be used with NVDA.
> Why not just run the high visibility theme every time -- this is an a11y
> CD after all.
> 4. Currently the launcher dialog doesn't say the typical things that a
> dialog with a combo box would say in the typical screen reader. That may
> be disorienting.
> 5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already running, it doesn't
> relaunch itself. Two running copies of NVDA cause problems. In fact, the
> launcher should probably just end any running copy of NVDA before it
> runs whatever the user asks, unless they're just running with NVDA again.
> 6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this can be a
> true community project. Anyone disagree? Charles will probably object to
> open sourcing his launcher.
> 7. If/when we get an open source launcher, would someone set up a
> mozdev.org project for this? That would allow us to log issues in the
> bug tracker, among other advantages.
> 8. I like keeping everything on one CD for now, instead of trying to
> separate it by type of disability. It will be much easier to avoid
> giving out multiple CD's to teachers, etc. that way, and we don't have
> to choose how many of each to build for each conference.
>
> - Aaron
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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Steve Lee-3
Agree an OS launcher would be preferable.

The screen reader readmes should include core instructions for
operating within Firefox right up front so the user can just get going
reading the open doc.

NVDA readme internal nav links are broken (target is not the full
fragment name, just the prefix number).

I'll second Inno is great and can be declarative or scripted. However
not sure if it would easily work as a startmenu as apposed to an
installer.


On 3/28/07, Charles Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  >>Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla
>  >>live access CD and send the URL to this newsgroup?
> http://clcworld.net/moz_csun_2007_iso.zip
>
>
>
>  >>1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps --
>  >>basically fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up,
> That was only to launch both NVDA and Firefox. If we were launching one
> app at a time, it wouldn't be a problem.
>
>  >>and so that the docs get read right off the bat.
> But what about picking the app to read the docs with? It seems like this
> solution only makes sense if the app itself has some sort of basic text
> reader...
> Personally, I think selecting the apps from the drop down and then
> choosing "about this cd" is a good solution. It can be improved by
> giving the reading commands depending on which app was selected (for
> example, having the title bar mention Ctrl Shift A for Fire Vox). More
> energy should probably be focused on #3 - helping users choose the right
> application for their needs.
>
>  >>Why not just run the high visibility theme
>  >>every time -- this is an a11y CD after all.
> Because sighted users with dyslexia or other cognitive impairments may
> not want to see everything in extra large font. Maybe high visibility
> theme should be the default choice with the regular themes later down
> the list, but I really don't think that high visibility should be the
> only choice.
>
>
>  >>5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already
>  >>running, it doesn't relaunch itself.
>  >>Two running copies of NVDA cause problems.
>  >>In fact, the launcher should probably
>  >>just end any running copy of NVDA before
>  >>it runs whatever the user asks,
>  >>unless they're just running with NVDA again.
> It seems like NVDA should just detect if it is a running process, and if
> it is, it should terminate itself (or refuse to launch a second
> instance). Making the launcher enforce the number of instances doesn't
> seem like a good solution since it means that users who have a copy of
> NVDA on their hard drives could still start NVDA twice by accident.
>
> Also, my understanding is that this is a known problem in NVDA and that
> Mick is going to fix it...
>
>
>  >>6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this
>  >>can be a true community project. Anyone disagree?
>  >>Charles will probably object to open sourcing his launcher.
> Aaron, I would like to discuss this one over the phone. We can talk
> sometime this week if you want (or after April 5 if that's easier for
> you). But I think we can reach an agreement on this.
>
>
> -Charles
>
>
>
> > The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A lot of people were
> > disappointed not to get one! :)
> >
> > Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla live access CD and
> > send the URL to this newsgroup?
> >
> > My thoughts for the CD:
> > 1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps -- basically
> > fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up, and so that the docs get read
> > right off the bat.
> > 2. We need to find a way so that users are less confused by the
> > launcher. Perhaps it shouldn't be called a start menu, since that sounds
> > like the Windows start menu. I think it should say "Mozilla live access
> > launcher" or "Mozilla live access chooser" or something like that. We
> > need to clarify what Click, Speak is so that users who need a full
> > screen reader realize it's not intended for that.
> > 3. In general I'd like to ask folks to think of ideas for the launcher.
> > I think we can simplify it by always using the high visibility theme on
> > the CD. Right now the high visibility theme almost doubles the choices
> > in the launcher drop down. But, we don't allow it to be used with NVDA.
> > Why not just run the high visibility theme every time -- this is an a11y
> > CD after all.
> > 4. Currently the launcher dialog doesn't say the typical things that a
> > dialog with a combo box would say in the typical screen reader. That may
> > be disorienting.
> > 5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already running, it doesn't
> > relaunch itself. Two running copies of NVDA cause problems. In fact, the
> > launcher should probably just end any running copy of NVDA before it
> > runs whatever the user asks, unless they're just running with NVDA again.
> > 6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this can be a
> > true community project. Anyone disagree? Charles will probably object to
> > open sourcing his launcher.
> > 7. If/when we get an open source launcher, would someone set up a
> > mozdev.org project for this? That would allow us to log issues in the
> > bug tracker, among other advantages.
> > 8. I like keeping everything on one CD for now, instead of trying to
> > separate it by type of disability. It will be much easier to avoid
> > giving out multiple CD's to teachers, etc. that way, and we don't have
> > to choose how many of each to build for each conference.
> >
> > - Aaron
> _______________________________________________
> dev-accessibility mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>


--
Steve Lee
www.fullmeasure.co.uk
www.oatsoft.org
www.schoolforge.org.uk
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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Victor Tsaran
In reply to this post by Charles Chen-2
My thoughts:
1. We can use NSIS for an installer.
2. As pointed out earlier, menu would be the easiest interface to
navigate through.
3. If the README docs are in text format, then the default text reader
should be launched. Otherwise, we can use Firefox, provided on the CD,
to open HTML docs.

I may have more thoughts once I download and try out the Live CD.
Thanks,
Vic

PS It was nice seeing you all at CSun.

Steve Lee wrote:

> Agree an OS launcher would be preferable.
>
> The screen reader readmes should include core instructions for
> operating within Firefox right up front so the user can just get going
> reading the open doc.
>
> NVDA readme internal nav links are broken (target is not the full
> fragment name, just the prefix number).
>
> I'll second Inno is great and can be declarative or scripted. However
> not sure if it would easily work as a startmenu as apposed to an
> installer.
>
>
> On 3/28/07, Charles Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  >>Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla
>>  >>live access CD and send the URL to this newsgroup?
>> http://clcworld.net/moz_csun_2007_iso.zip
>>
>>
>>
>>  >>1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps --
>>  >>basically fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up,
>> That was only to launch both NVDA and Firefox. If we were launching one
>> app at a time, it wouldn't be a problem.
>>
>>  >>and so that the docs get read right off the bat.
>> But what about picking the app to read the docs with? It seems like this
>> solution only makes sense if the app itself has some sort of basic text
>> reader...
>> Personally, I think selecting the apps from the drop down and then
>> choosing "about this cd" is a good solution. It can be improved by
>> giving the reading commands depending on which app was selected (for
>> example, having the title bar mention Ctrl Shift A for Fire Vox). More
>> energy should probably be focused on #3 - helping users choose the right
>> application for their needs.
>>
>>  >>Why not just run the high visibility theme
>>  >>every time -- this is an a11y CD after all.
>> Because sighted users with dyslexia or other cognitive impairments may
>> not want to see everything in extra large font. Maybe high visibility
>> theme should be the default choice with the regular themes later down
>> the list, but I really don't think that high visibility should be the
>> only choice.
>>
>>
>>  >>5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already
>>  >>running, it doesn't relaunch itself.
>>  >>Two running copies of NVDA cause problems.
>>  >>In fact, the launcher should probably
>>  >>just end any running copy of NVDA before
>>  >>it runs whatever the user asks,
>>  >>unless they're just running with NVDA again.
>> It seems like NVDA should just detect if it is a running process, and if
>> it is, it should terminate itself (or refuse to launch a second
>> instance). Making the launcher enforce the number of instances doesn't
>> seem like a good solution since it means that users who have a copy of
>> NVDA on their hard drives could still start NVDA twice by accident.
>>
>> Also, my understanding is that this is a known problem in NVDA and that
>> Mick is going to fix it...
>>
>>
>>  >>6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this
>>  >>can be a true community project. Anyone disagree?
>>  >>Charles will probably object to open sourcing his launcher.
>> Aaron, I would like to discuss this one over the phone. We can talk
>> sometime this week if you want (or after April 5 if that's easier for
>> you). But I think we can reach an agreement on this.
>>
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>>
>>
>> > The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A lot of people were
>> > disappointed not to get one! :)
>> >
>> > Charles, can you post the ISO image for the Mozilla live access CD and
>> > send the URL to this newsgroup?
>> >
>> > My thoughts for the CD:
>> > 1. The launcher should streamline access to all the apps -- basically
>> > fix it so the DOS Window doesn't come up, and so that the docs get read
>> > right off the bat.
>> > 2. We need to find a way so that users are less confused by the
>> > launcher. Perhaps it shouldn't be called a start menu, since that
>> sounds
>> > like the Windows start menu. I think it should say "Mozilla live access
>> > launcher" or "Mozilla live access chooser" or something like that. We
>> > need to clarify what Click, Speak is so that users who need a full
>> > screen reader realize it's not intended for that.
>> > 3. In general I'd like to ask folks to think of ideas for the launcher.
>> > I think we can simplify it by always using the high visibility theme on
>> > the CD. Right now the high visibility theme almost doubles the choices
>> > in the launcher drop down. But, we don't allow it to be used with NVDA.
>> > Why not just run the high visibility theme every time -- this is an
>> a11y
>> > CD after all.
>> > 4. Currently the launcher dialog doesn't say the typical things that a
>> > dialog with a combo box would say in the typical screen reader. That
>> may
>> > be disorienting.
>> > 5. We need to make sure that if NVDA is already running, it doesn't
>> > relaunch itself. Two running copies of NVDA cause problems. In fact,
>> the
>> > launcher should probably just end any running copy of NVDA before it
>> > runs whatever the user asks, unless they're just running with NVDA
>> again.
>> > 6. I'd like an open source launcher at some point, so that this can
>> be a
>> > true community project. Anyone disagree? Charles will probably
>> object to
>> > open sourcing his launcher.
>> > 7. If/when we get an open source launcher, would someone set up a
>> > mozdev.org project for this? That would allow us to log issues in the
>> > bug tracker, among other advantages.
>> > 8. I like keeping everything on one CD for now, instead of trying to
>> > separate it by type of disability. It will be much easier to avoid
>> > giving out multiple CD's to teachers, etc. that way, and we don't have
>> > to choose how many of each to build for each conference.
>> >
>> > - Aaron
>> _______________________________________________
>> dev-accessibility mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility
>>
>
>
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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Steve Lee-3
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
On 3/27/07, Aaron Leventhal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A
> lot of people were disappointed not to get one! :)
>
> Charles, can you post the ISO image for the
> Mozilla live access CD and send the URL to this
> newsgroup?
>

Are the ISOs available or will they be soon?

I've been asked to write a short article on FireVox & NVDA for the UK's
Ability magazine (www.abilitymagazine.org.uk) and it would be good to offer
the ISO as a resource.

Steve Lee
www.fullmeasure.co.uk
www.oatssoft.org.uk
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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Charles Chen-2
In reply to this post by Aaron Leventhal-3
I just checked the link that I posted earlier in this thread and it's
still fine. Are you having a problem with it?

http://clcworld.net/moz_csun_2007_iso.zip

> On 3/27/07, Aaron Leventhal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> The CD was obviously popular at the conference. A
>> lot of people were disappointed not to get one! :)
>>
>> Charles, can you post the ISO image for the
>> Mozilla live access CD and send the URL to this
>> newsgroup?
>>
>
> Are the ISOs available or will they be soon?
>
> I've been asked to write a short article on FireVox & NVDA for the UK's
> Ability magazine (www.abilitymagazine.org.uk) and it would be good to offer
> the ISO as a resource.
>
> Steve Lee
> www.fullmeasure.co.uk
> www.oatssoft.org.uk
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Re: Mozilla Live Access CD

Steve Lee-3
On 4/30/07, Charles Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I just checked the link that I posted earlier in this thread and it's
> still fine. Are you having a problem with it?
>

No sorry Charles, somehow I missed your post.
It's downloading fine now but I will let you know of any problems some time
latter (on Linux at the mo).
Have added the link to the article.

Steve
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