Moderation

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Moderation

The Real Bev
I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?

--
Cheers,  Bev
   "I can't stand this proliferation of paperwork.   It's useless to
    fight the forms.  You've got to kill the people producing them."
                                              -- Vladimir Kabaidze
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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 21/08/2017 21:27, The Real Bev wrote:
> I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
> support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>


You need to contact Chris Ilias <mailto:[hidden email]>.   {Chris Ilias
<[hidden email]>} There is nothing anybody can do here except to feel
sorry for you but we are all in the same boat subject to the same
moderation process.  No favours given to anybody here.

Even that chap called David Ross, {who is a known troll on Windows
newsgroups} is subject to this process.

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Re: Moderation

Hartmut Figge
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
The Real Bev:

>I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
>support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?

Well, the meaning of on-topic is debatable. Mine differed from that of
the moderator so 2014 I ceased posting to support.

There was no deleting of any post, only a very polite PM, a warning that
some of my answers were considered to be off-topic. I couldn't agree
withe that, felt unwelcome and stopped posting.

Hartmut
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Re: Moderation

The Real Bev
On 08/21/2017 02:08 PM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
> The Real Bev:
>
>>I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
>>support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>
> Well, the meaning of on-topic is debatable. Mine differed from that of
> the moderator so 2014 I ceased posting to support.

At the very least, it would seem to mean that it's an addendum to the
topic of the thread that has been continuing for a while.

> There was no deleting of any post, only a very polite PM, a warning that
> some of my answers were considered to be off-topic. I couldn't agree
> withe that, felt unwelcome and stopped posting.

I got some of those, but ultimately just an automatic "Your post was
selected for hand moderation because one of the headers matched
blablabla..."   I emailed Chris asking him to take me off the hand-mod
list.  He replied that he goes over the list once a month.

I conclude that the Mozilla organization really doesn't care about what
happens in these groups.  If they did they'd make them a LOT more
user-friendly.

--
Cheers, Bev
   Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely and in a
   well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
   and shouting HOLY SHIT, WHAT A RIDE!!!
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Re: Moderation

WaltS48-5
On 8/21/17 11:09 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 08/21/2017 02:08 PM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
>> The Real Bev:
>>
>>> I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
>>> support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>>
>> Well, the meaning of on-topic is debatable. Mine differed from that of
>> the moderator so 2014 I ceased posting to support.
>
> At the very least, it would seem to mean that it's an addendum to the
> topic of the thread that has been continuing for a while.
>
>> There was no deleting of any post, only a very polite PM, a warning that
>> some of my answers were considered to be off-topic. I couldn't agree
>> withe that, felt unwelcome and stopped posting.
>
> I got some of those, but ultimately just an automatic "Your post was
> selected for hand moderation because one of the headers matched
> blablabla..."   I emailed Chris asking him to take me off the hand-mod
> list.  He replied that he goes over the list once a month.
>
> I conclude that the Mozilla organization really doesn't care about what
> happens in these groups.  If they did they'd make them a LOT more
> user-friendly.
>


The Mozilla organization has <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/> and is
moving other discussions to Discourse.

<https://discourse.mozilla.org/categories>

There are also some mailing lists that don't have newsgroups associated
with them.

AFAIK Firefox and Thunderbird support are the only newsgroups Chris
moderates.

--
Go Bucs!
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04 LTS - Unity Desktop
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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 22/08/2017 14:33, WaltS48 wrote:

>
>
> The Mozilla organization has <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/> and
> is moving other discussions to Discourse.
>
> <https://discourse.mozilla.org/categories>
>
> There are also some mailing lists that don't have newsgroups
> associated with them.
>
>

I thought people using these newsgroups don't like forums and so your
link won't be of any use.  However, it is a good idea to know what is
the procedure to report something that the OP is complaining about?  
Surely, there must be a way to report these things to the higher
authorities when one is not in agreement with the moderator.

Alternatively, somebody should take an initiative to start a new Mozilla
newsgroup.

How about: news://news.mymozilla.org

This is just a made up name so don't try to click on it.


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Re: Moderation

Hartmut Figge
Good Guy:

>Alternatively, somebody should take an initiative to start a new Mozilla
>newsgroup.

Well, I have done so for an alternative to .multimedia. *g* But that NG
is only on news.albasani.net.

Hartmut
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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 22/08/2017 17:58, Hartmut Figge wrote:
> Good Guy:
>
>> Alternatively, somebody should take an initiative to start a new Mozilla
>> newsgroup.
> Well, I have done so for an alternative to .multimedia. *g* But that NG
> is only on news.albasani.net.
>
> Hartmut
The problem with using big-8 hierarchy is that the approval is very strict.

<https://www.usenetserver.com/create-a-newsgroup.php>
<http://nylon.net/alt/>

Private newsgroup is simple.  You need a hosting account and you need to
pay an annual fee.  Apart from that it is pretty simple and you can
control it which posts remain online and which can be deleted.  You can
also ban prolific spammers.

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Re: Moderation

Hartmut Figge
Good Guy:
>On 22/08/2017 17:58, Hartmut Figge wrote:
>> Good Guy:

>>> Alternatively, somebody should take an initiative to start a new Mozilla
>>> newsgroup.
>> Well, I have done so for an alternative to .multimedia. *g* But that NG
>> is only on news.albasani.net.
>>
>The problem with using big-8 hierarchy is that the approval is very strict.
>
><https://www.usenetserver.com/create-a-newsgroup.php>
><http://nylon.net/alt/>
>
>Private newsgroup is simple.  You need a hosting account and you need to
>pay an annual fee.  Apart from that it is pretty simple and you can
>control it which posts remain online and which can be deleted.  You can
>also ban prolific spammers.

albasani is an open free news server I'm subscribed to since many years.

http://www.albasani.net/index.html.en

Hartmut
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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 22/08/2017 18:39, Hartmut Figge wrote:

> Good Guy:
>> On 22/08/2017 17:58, Hartmut Figge wrote:
>>> Good Guy:
>>>> Alternatively, somebody should take an initiative to start a new Mozilla
>>>> newsgroup.
>>> Well, I have done so for an alternative to .multimedia. *g* But that NG
>>> is only on news.albasani.net.
>>>
>> The problem with using big-8 hierarchy is that the approval is very strict.
>>
>> <https://www.usenetserver.com/create-a-newsgroup.php>
>> <http://nylon.net/alt/>
>>
>> Private newsgroup is simple.  You need a hosting account and you need to
>> pay an annual fee.  Apart from that it is pretty simple and you can
>> control it which posts remain online and which can be deleted.  You can
>> also ban prolific spammers.
> albasani is an open free news server I'm subscribed to since many years.
>
> http://www.albasani.net/index.html.en
>
> Hartmut

No you are missing the point.  I am talking about creating our own
newsgroup so that it looks like News.Mozilla.Org.  We can then control
what goes in it and who to allow to post in there.

The OP was talking about Moderation on FF and TB newsgroup and so he/she
is not allowed to contribute to these newsgroups.  Therefore, the
solution is to take control ourselves like we did for Wordpress recently
by creating a newsgroup at this link:




news://news.lexi.net/oldschool.wordpress
news://news.lexi.net/oldschool.webdev
news://news.lexi.net/oldschool.ot





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Re: Moderation

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
On 08/22/2017 06:33 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/21/17 11:09 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 08/21/2017 02:08 PM, Hartmut Figge wrote:
>>> The Real Bev:
>>>
>>>> I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
>>>> support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>>>
>>> Well, the meaning of on-topic is debatable. Mine differed from that of
>>> the moderator so 2014 I ceased posting to support.
>>
>> At the very least, it would seem to mean that it's an addendum to the
>> topic of the thread that has been continuing for a while.
>>
>>> There was no deleting of any post, only a very polite PM, a warning that
>>> some of my answers were considered to be off-topic. I couldn't agree
>>> withe that, felt unwelcome and stopped posting.
>>
>> I got some of those, but ultimately just an automatic "Your post was
>> selected for hand moderation because one of the headers matched
>> blablabla..."   I emailed Chris asking him to take me off the hand-mod
>> list.  He replied that he goes over the list once a month.
>>
>> I conclude that the Mozilla organization really doesn't care about what
>> happens in these groups.  If they did they'd make them a LOT more
>> user-friendly.
>
> The Mozilla organization has <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/> and is
> moving other discussions to Discourse.
>
> <https://discourse.mozilla.org/categories>

"Participation Systems
Conversations around ongoing efforts to make Mozilla more participatory
by innovating on our internal communications and collaborative
infrastructure."

I swear to god I read this in Dilbert a while back...

Nothing there looked like it encouraged the general bullshittery we have
here in moz.gen.  Is that going to disappear?

> There are also some mailing lists that don't have newsgroups associated
> with them.
>
> AFAIK Firefox and Thunderbird support are the only newsgroups Chris
> moderates.

Perhaps it's time for him to think of retiring.

--
Cheers, Bev
   "At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
    miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
    demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
    Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
                                             PJ O'Rourke
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Re: Moderation

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
On 8/21/2017 1:27 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
> support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>

My posts to mozilla.support.thunderbird and mozilla.support.firefox are
being manually moderated.  This is supposed to be punishing me for a
lack of on-topic replies in various threads.  Since I archive my posts,
I went back and counted more on-topic replies than Chris Ilias asserted.

Manually moderating my replies delays them, sometimes into the next day.
 This delay actually punishes those who request help more than it
punishes me.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Yes, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and other
"founding fathers" owned slaves.  However, they created
a nation.  Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, Thomas
"Stonewall" Jackson and other "heroes" of the
Confederacy tried to tear the nation apart.  Statues
and other monuments to those "heroes" of the
Confederacy actually celebrate traitors and treason.

See my <http://www.rossde.com/editorials/edtl_conf_flag.html>.
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Re: Moderation

The Real Bev
On 08/26/2017 09:24 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

> On 8/21/2017 1:27 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> I'm really getting tired of having my on-topic posts killed in the
>> support groups.  Why bother to even TRY to help?
>
> My posts to mozilla.support.thunderbird and mozilla.support.firefox are
> being manually moderated.  This is supposed to be punishing me for a
> lack of on-topic replies in various threads.  Since I archive my posts,
> I went back and counted more on-topic replies than Chris Ilias asserted.
>
> Manually moderating my replies delays them, sometimes into the next day.
> This delay actually punishes those who request help more than it
> punishes me.

Mine aren't delayed now, they just drop into the memory hole.  So if
Chris is telling the truth, each month he clicks the box next to my name
that says 'delete without posting'.

Robomod wouldn't allow this for more than a month at a time -- a human
had to make the decision once a month to ban a given user -- so I guess
I should feel special or something.

He lets a number of clearly off-topic and/or abusive posts go through.
Sometimes 'moderation' is really just a snit.

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   My house isn't a pigsty, it's an Immunity Enhancement Center.
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Re: Moderation

Rinaldi-2
The Real Bev decreed, Read These Runes!:
> He lets a number of clearly off-topic and/or abusive posts go through.
> Sometimes 'moderation' is really just a snit.

Moderation is for monks.  -Lazarus Long

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train.
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Re: Moderation

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
The Real Bev wrote:
> He lets a number of clearly off-topic and/or abusive posts go through.
> Sometimes 'moderation' is really just a snit.

My theory is:

  - somebody upstairs wants moderation
  - it is a terrible job, but 'somebody has to do it'
  - I would bet that CI would rather not be doing it at all

In one sense, IMO the underlying basic problem is that nntp is not
webforum and the same kind of upstairs people who would wish for the
'quality' of webforum moderation for nntp, or better yet, no such thing
as nntp support, are the cause for the upstairs 'need' for nntp moderation.

Such upstairs people do not care if the nntp moderation is both tedious
and unfair and suboptimal because they believe that the fundamental
problem is the lack of ability to work nntp like web.

Such upstairs people do not see nntp with or without moderation the same
as those who view nntp moderated or unmoderated differently.  Those
upstairs people are not nntp people.  They might be mailing list people.



--
Mike Easter
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Re: Moderation

The Real Bev
On 08/27/2017 09:45 AM, Mike Easter wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> He lets a number of clearly off-topic and/or abusive posts go through.
>> Sometimes 'moderation' is really just a snit.
>
> My theory is:
>
>    - somebody upstairs wants moderation
>    - it is a terrible job, but 'somebody has to do it'
>    - I would bet that CI would rather not be doing it at all
>
> In one sense, IMO the underlying basic problem is that nntp is not
> webforum and the same kind of upstairs people who would wish for the
> 'quality' of webforum moderation for nntp, or better yet, no such thing
> as nntp support, are the cause for the upstairs 'need' for nntp moderation.
>
> Such upstairs people do not care if the nntp moderation is both tedious
> and unfair and suboptimal because they believe that the fundamental
> problem is the lack of ability to work nntp like web.
>
> Such upstairs people do not see nntp with or without moderation the same
> as those who view nntp moderated or unmoderated differently.  Those
> upstairs people are not nntp people.  They might be mailing list people.

I think the bottom line is that they just don't care.  We're not the
target audience.  What else does Chris do?


              WARNING WARNING OFF-TOPIC WARNING WARNING

Hubby wanted me to go to Ulta across the street and check it out as a
business in terms of buying stock in the company -- are there a lot of
customers, what are they buying etc.?  I hated being there.  It was
alien territory.  Women willing to spend $50 ($27 on sale) for a
lipstick are not my species.  I just have no way of evaluating a place
like that.  How long can a business survive by catering to stupid people
who spend ridiculous amounts of money on stuff when equivalent stuff is
available elsewhere for 10% of the price?  Well, probably a long time...

When I was riding on the metro a couple of weeks ago I watched a young
woman apply mascara for the entire 15-minute trip.  I didn't understand
that either.

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     Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.
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Re: Moderation

EE-2
In reply to this post by Mike Easter-2
Mike Easter wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> He lets a number of clearly off-topic and/or abusive posts go through.
>> Sometimes 'moderation' is really just a snit.
>
> My theory is:
>
>   - somebody upstairs wants moderation
>   - it is a terrible job, but 'somebody has to do it'
>   - I would bet that CI would rather not be doing it at all
>
> In one sense, IMO the underlying basic problem is that nntp is not
> webforum and the same kind of upstairs people who would wish for the
> 'quality' of webforum moderation for nntp, or better yet, no such thing
> as nntp support, are the cause for the upstairs 'need' for nntp moderation.
>
> Such upstairs people do not care if the nntp moderation is both tedious
> and unfair and suboptimal because they believe that the fundamental
> problem is the lack of ability to work nntp like web.
>
> Such upstairs people do not see nntp with or without moderation the same
> as those who view nntp moderated or unmoderated differently.  Those
> upstairs people are not nntp people.  They might be mailing list people.
>
>
>
Why does the moderation not include the Italian spam that sometimes
appears on the SeaMonkey and Firefox groups?  Why not just create a
filter that eliminates it, rather than the readers of those groups
having to create the filters?

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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 27/08/2017 21:24, EE wrote:
>
> Why does the moderation not include the Italian spam that sometimes
> appears on the SeaMonkey and Firefox groups?  Why not just create a
> filter that eliminates it, rather than the readers of those groups
> having to create the filters?
>

There is no Italian spam on Firefox or Thunderbird newsgroup so there is
nothing to include as you put it.  All Italian spam is in General and
Test newsgroup and these are not moderated.  That is why you see David E
Rose peddling his political slogan in his messages on General and Test
newsgroups but on FF and TB newsgroups he is moderated as far as I can see.

We are all subject to the same process as what people are complaining
but I don't see the point because without moderation we'll have chaos.

People should just provide straight advice to straight questions about
Mozilla products.  There is no need to talk about anything else.  When I
say "straight"  I mean leave out PC language and to stop patronising the
users.  Just straight solution to the problem and keep the post as short
as possible.  We don't want readers telling us TL;DR here because it is
not nice important solution going unnoticed.  My posts are filtered by
most here and on Windows NG  but they are ill-informed and I love it
that way!!!!!!!!!!  The less people reading my posts the better it is as
there are few complaints about them.  THAT IS BY DESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Moderation

Mike Easter-2
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
The Real Bev wrote:
> What else does Chris do?

About 6 mo ago he blogged that he was going to work for Postbox doing
'user content and support' and that he might have to curtail some Moz
duties.

Postbox is a payware Win/Mac email client; 30d free trial.  Started by
some Moz people some years ago.


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Re: Moderation

Good Guy-2
On 27/08/2017 22:35, Mike Easter wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> What else does Chris do?
>
> About 6 mo ago he blogged that he was going to work for Postbox doing
> 'user content and support' and that he might have to curtail some Moz
> duties.
>
> Postbox is a payware Win/Mac email client; 30d free trial. Started by
> some Moz people some years ago.
>
>

YOU MEAN THIS ONE?

<https://www.postbox-inc.com/>

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