Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

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Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Frank Wein
Hi,
as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy.
The new news server/infrastructure will be hosted by GigaNews, but of
course access to the news server news.mozilla.org will remain free as it
is right now :). So the new news group hierarchy will not be propagated
to the rest of the Usenet like before, you can only find the new groups
on news.mozilla.org, GigaNews servers and on Google Groups then.
If you don't know the new newsgroup hierarchy yet, take a look at
http://www.mozilla.org/community/newsgroups.txt, there the new newsgroup
hierarchy can be found.
If you still have questions take a look at the FAQ under
http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html first.

Frank
f'up2 netscape.public.mozilla.general set
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

RJack-10
Frank Wein wrote:

> Hi,
> as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
> new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
> half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy.
> The new news server/infrastructure will be hosted by GigaNews, but of
> course access to the news server news.mozilla.org will remain free as it
> is right now :). So the new news group hierarchy will not be propagated
> to the rest of the Usenet like before, you can only find the new groups
> on news.mozilla.org, GigaNews servers and on Google Groups then.
> If you don't know the new newsgroup hierarchy yet, take a look at
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/newsgroups.txt, there the new newsgroup
> hierarchy can be found.
> If you still have questions take a look at the FAQ under
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html first.

Gosh, this was bad news that you are leaving Usenet. I don't think that many
will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".


 //Aho
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Leonidas Jones
J.O. Aho wrote:
> Frank Wein wrote:

/snip/
>
> Gosh, this was bad news that you are leaving Usenet. I don't think that many
> will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".
>
>
>  //Aho

Has news.mozilla.org been slower than any other server?

Lee
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

RJack-10
Leonidas Jones wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:

>> Gosh, this was bad news that you are leaving Usenet. I don't think
>> that many
>> will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".
>
> Has news.mozilla.org been slower than any other server?

I can only speak for myself, even if I have seen others complain, it's been
like been connected to the net with those old modems from the 80s where you
had 300bps, just getting one header takes for ages and then if there is more
than one new news it's been taking as many ages to get those, and then getting
the posts you want to read, usually takes a lot longer as they tend to be
longer than the header. Compared with every other NNTP I have used, it's a lot
slower and I have used Usenet over modems once in the time.


 //Aho
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by RJack-10
_J.O. Aho_ spoke thusly:
>  I don't think that many will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".

Is that to say, you've had experience with a full service Giganews
account? If not, I don't see how you can judge the speed of their
servers. You can test the speed of Giganews servers here:
http://www.giganews.com/test_connect.html

Or try their 3 day trial to test the speed of their servers.

I've been a Giganews customer for years. On the whole, they are very fast.
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Leonidas Jones
In reply to this post by RJack-10
J.O. Aho wrote:

> Leonidas Jones wrote:
>> J.O. Aho wrote:
>
>>> Gosh, this was bad news that you are leaving Usenet. I don't think
>>> that many
>>> will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".
>> Has news.mozilla.org been slower than any other server?
>
> I can only speak for myself, even if I have seen others complain, it's been
> like been connected to the net with those old modems from the 80s where you
> had 300bps, just getting one header takes for ages and then if there is more
> than one new news it's been taking as many ages to get those, and then getting
> the posts you want to read, usually takes a lot longer as they tend to be
> longer than the header. Compared with every other NNTP I have used, it's a lot
> slower and I have used Usenet over modems once in the time.
>
>
>  //Aho

Thanks for the reply.

I have not noticed it as all, but them I'm on broadband.

Lee
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Re: Thanks for migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Sean Vickery (remove the blood-smeared Nordics to email)
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
Frank Wein wrote:

> as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
> new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
> half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy.
> The new news server/infrastructure will be hosted by GigaNews, but of
> course access to the news server news.mozilla.org will remain free as it
> is right now :). So the new news group hierarchy will not be propagated
> to the rest of the Usenet like before, you can only find the new groups
> on news.mozilla.org, GigaNews servers and on Google Groups then.
> If you don't know the new newsgroup hierarchy yet, take a look at
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/newsgroups.txt, there the new newsgroup
> hierarchy can be found.
> If you still have questions take a look at the FAQ under
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html first.

When this is done you'll have my thanks, Frank.

I am an end user of Firefox, Thunderbird and have also used
Calendar/Sunbird. I am also a computer technician. Firefox and
Thunderbird and handy to install on computers I set up for clients.

I try to keep up with a little of the technical discussion on
n.p.m.seamonkey, which used to be the group for discussing architecture.
Unfortunately since the taking of the name seamonkey by the people
continuing the suite there's less and less discussion about the trunk
applications' architecture in this group.

After the newsgroup reorg I envisage my reading options getting much better.

cheers all
sean vickery
--
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in
all kinds of directions." -- Terry Pratchett, The Truth
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
Chris Ilias wrote:

> _J.O. Aho_ spoke thusly:
>>  I don't think that many will migrate over to slower access to
>> "newsgroups".
>
> Is that to say, you've had experience with a full service Giganews
> account? If not, I don't see how you can judge the speed of their
> servers. You can test the speed of Giganews servers here:
> http://www.giganews.com/test_connect.html
>
> Or try their 3 day trial to test the speed of their servers.
>
> I've been a Giganews customer for years. On the whole, they are very fast.

I use the commercial Giganews service, and have been quite happy with
the speed, especially compared with the speed limited (128kbps) speed
from my Charter account.  During busy times, response is sometimes
slower than I would like to binaries, but the transmission speed is at
the full 3mpbs rate of my cable connection.  Headers are downloaded as
full speed.
Not sure what the OP is talking about...
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Frank Wein
Ron Hunter wrote:
> Not sure what the OP is talking about...

Well, there are many people that already have Usenet access over their
provider or another news server provider (either for free or for a small
fee) and there they have fast access to Usenet. And in the past
news.mozilla.org has not really been fast, but maybe this gets better now.

Frank
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Ron Hunter
Frank Wein wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> Not sure what the OP is talking about...
>
> Well, there are many people that already have Usenet access over their
> provider or another news server provider (either for free or for a small
> fee) and there they have fast access to Usenet. And in the past
> news.mozilla.org has not really been fast, but maybe this gets better now.
>
> Frank

I have found it slow to respond initially, sometimes, but generally, I
see fast response.  Perhaps there is something slow in your routing...
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
_Frank Wein_ spoke thusly:

> Hi,
> as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
> new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
> half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy.
> The new news server/infrastructure will be hosted by GigaNews, but of
> course access to the news server news.mozilla.org will remain free as it
> is right now :). So the new news group hierarchy will not be propagated
> to the rest of the Usenet like before, you can only find the new groups
> on news.mozilla.org, GigaNews servers and on Google Groups then.
> If you don't know the new newsgroup hierarchy yet, take a look at
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/newsgroups.txt, there the new newsgroup
> hierarchy can be found.
> If you still have questions take a look at the FAQ under
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html first.
>
> Frank
> f'up2 netscape.public.mozilla.general set

Something worth warning people about:
The switch from AOL to Giganews will happen before the newsgroup
transition. One side affect of redirecting the server to Giganews before
the newsgroup transition is that the article sequence numbers won't
match between the current server at AOL and the Giganews server. This
means that people currently subscribed to n.p.m* groups will have a
wrong count of which messages are read. (Most likely, all messages will
be marked as read, as well as many new ones after that.) It would be
best to resubscribe to your current netscape.public.mozilla.*
newsgroups. It may be a little more tricky if your news reader maintains
the read messages count even after you unsubscribe.
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

tsahiasher
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
according to the FAQ, access to old newsgroups content will be through
archives, and it won't be copied from the old groups. why won't the
archives from the old groups be copied to the compatible new groups, so
they continue to be accesible for ever? there's a lot of useful info
there.

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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
_tsahiasher@gmail.com_ spoke thusly on 03/01/2006 4:00 AM:
> according to the FAQ, access to old newsgroups content will be through
> archives, and it won't be copied from the old groups. why won't the
> archives from the old groups be copied to the compatible new groups, so
> they continue to be accesible for ever? there's a lot of useful info
> there.

The netscape.public.mozilla* newsgroups are on usenet; which means you
can find an archive on Google Groups:
http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?sel=33608864
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Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Oleg O.
In reply to this post by Leonidas Jones
In article <dp4dv3$[hidden email]>,
Leonidas Jones  <[hidden email]> wrote:
>J.O. Aho wrote:
>> Frank Wein wrote:
>
>/snip/
>>
>> Gosh, this was bad news that you are leaving Usenet. I don't think that many
>> will migrate over to slower access to "newsgroups".
>
>Has news.mozilla.org been slower than any other server?

Of course, a remote server is slower than a local one.


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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Stegozor
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
Frank Wein wrote:

> as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
> new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
> half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy (...)

A side question: Everyone is talking about the new server, but what the
current netscape.public.mozilla.* hierarchy will become ? If AOL doesn't
send a rm control message but just unplugs its server, these groups will
presumably remain distributed over USENET indefinitely.
Maybe they (at least some of them) could become an interesting
playground like news:alt.fan.mozilla for Mozilla users, now that
developers have their own newsgroups. And this would be more interesting
than empty groups relaying only spam.

The question beginning with "Will there be a way to access content on
the old newsgroups? If so, for how long?" at
http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html
lets me think that. But splitting the traffic might be a bad thing. Any
comments and corrections?
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

gwtc
Stegozor wrote:

> Frank Wein wrote:
>
>
>>as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
>>new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
>>half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy (...)
>
>
> A side question: Everyone is talking about the new server, but what the
> current netscape.public.mozilla.* hierarchy will become ? If AOL doesn't
> send a rm control message but just unplugs its server, these groups will
> presumably remain distributed over USENET indefinitely.
> Maybe they (at least some of them) could become an interesting
> playground like news:alt.fan.mozilla for Mozilla users, now that
> developers have their own newsgroups. And this would be more interesting
> than empty groups relaying only spam.
>
> The question beginning with "Will there be a way to access content on
> the old newsgroups? If so, for how long?" at
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html
> lets me think that. But splitting the traffic might be a bad thing. Any
> comments and corrections?
The answer to your question is that the netscape.public.mozilla.*
groups are supposed to go over to news://oldnews.mozilla.org, but I
haven't seen any changes yet.  I can still access them on this server.
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Dave Miller-2
In article <[hidden email]>, gwtc
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Stegozor wrote:
>
> > Frank Wein wrote:
> >
> >
> >>as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
> >>new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
> >>half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy
> >>(...)
> > The question beginning with "Will there be a way to access content on
> > the old newsgroups? If so, for how long?" at
> > http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html
> > lets me think that. But splitting the traffic might be a bad thing. Any
> > comments and corrections?
> The answer to your question is that the netscape.public.mozilla.*
> groups are supposed to go over to news://oldnews.mozilla.org, but I
> haven't seen any changes yet.  I can still access them on this server.

The netscape.* hierarchy will probably always propagate just like it
has.  oldnews.mozilla.org works, and points at the old news server at
AOL.  You might notice that Giganews (the current news.mozilla.org)
only has the last 3 years worth of posts in the netscape.* groups.
There's been 8 to 9 years of traffic in those groups, and it's ALL
there on the old server.  Google also has all of it on Google Groups.

We may or may not even shut them off on the current news.mozilla.org,
we still haven't decided for sure yet.  It's likely we'll leave them
alone for a while, at least until we know we've got most of the
stragglers :)

--
Dave Miller, System Administrator
Mozilla Corporation  http://www.mozilla.com/
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Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

gwtc
Dave Miller wrote:

> In article <[hidden email]>, gwtc
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>Stegozor wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Frank Wein wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>as you may have already read somewhere on the web, the migration to the
>>>>new news server will finally take part in January 2006 (probably first
>>>>half of it). Connected to this is the migration to new newsgroup hierarchy
>>>>(...)
>>>
>>>The question beginning with "Will there be a way to access content on
>>>the old newsgroups? If so, for how long?" at
>>>http://www.mozilla.org/community/giganews-migration.html
>>>lets me think that. But splitting the traffic might be a bad thing. Any
>>>comments and corrections?
>>
>>The answer to your question is that the netscape.public.mozilla.*
>>groups are supposed to go over to news://oldnews.mozilla.org, but I
>>haven't seen any changes yet.  I can still access them on this server.
>
>
> The netscape.* hierarchy will probably always propagate just like it
> has.  oldnews.mozilla.org works, and points at the old news server at
> AOL.

You know, that might be true, but I haven't noticed any of the
netscape.public.mozilla.* messages on the oldnews.mozilla.org server.
  I've only noticed them on the news.mozilla.org server.  And there
have been lots of messages on them.

The ones I've been monitoring are:

netscape.public.mozilla.browser
netscape.public.mozilla.qa.browser
netscape.public.mozilla.general
netscape.public.mozilla.qa.browser
netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news
netscape.public.mozilla.prefs
netscape.public.mozilla.seamonkey
netscape.public.mozilla.win32

nothing has been showing up on oldnews.mozilla.org


  You might notice that Giganews (the current news.mozilla.org)
> only has the last 3 years worth of posts in the netscape.* groups.
> There's been 8 to 9 years of traffic in those groups, and it's ALL
> there on the old server.  Google also has all of it on Google Groups.
>
> We may or may not even shut them off on the current news.mozilla.org,
> we still haven't decided for sure yet.  It's likely we'll leave them
> alone for a while, at least until we know we've got most of the
> stragglers :)
>
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