Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
61 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Robert Kaiser
Rinaldi J. Montessi schrieb:
> Philip Chee wrote:
> ------
>> It would have gone into the bit bucket (Mozilla 1.8 was killed off just
>> before release) if not for a brave bunch of volunteers who stepped up to the
>> plate.
>
> Perhaps behind the scenes that may have been a reality; but to me on the
> outside looking in the transition seemed flawless.  Good PR control I guess.

The main thing here was good cooperation between the Mozilla Foundation
and the newly formed SeaMonkey Council.

It's also improtant to see that the Foundation never wanted to see the
suite development end, they just discovered that they lack the manpower
(esp. QA people) to maintain and further develop their heavily popular
Firefox/Thunderbird product line and the less popular suite product next
to each other. Because of that, they decided to not do further
development of the suite by themselves, but from the first day they said
they would be willing to help any other team to take over development
and provide them with infrastructure, and that's also what they did.
Exactly that provided all we needed for a smooth transition.

(Of course, there are some things internally that could have done even
better in the transition, and we know areas where we'd like even more
support of them, but one has to understand that their more popular prime
products are higher in priority. Still, they have done a lot for a good
transition this last year, and in the light of the turn of the year we
should thanks them for what they did  - and wish they'll continue to
support us, maybe even improve that support in the next year...)

Robert Kaiser
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Ron Lopshire
Ron Lopshire schrieb:
> 2) It is my understanding, based on the posts of others in various Moz
> NGs, that the SeaMonkey development team is no longer with Mozilla,
> including the Foundation, mozilla.org and mozilla.com. If that is wrong,
> please correct me.

So then let me correct you ;-)

The SeaMonkey project is still fully with mozilla.org, is legally
represented by the Mozilla Foundation, and the Foundation is supporting
our project, mainly through allowing us to use their infrastructure
(project web pages, CVS repository, FTP space, newsgroups/mailing lists,
"tinderboxen" and such stuff).

In the new mozilla.* newsgroup hierarchy, we'll even have seperate user
and developer newsgroups for the SeaMonkey project (note that this group
here, n.p.m.seamonkey is originally NOT about the SeaMonkey project, but
about mozilla.org project organization, which will have a seperate and
better named group in the new hierarchy as well).

Robert Kaiser
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Karsten Düsterloh
In reply to this post by Michael Vincent van Rantwijk
Michael Vincent van Rantwijk aber hob zu reden an und schrieb:
> Karsten, what are these problems exactly, if I may ask?

See also KaiRo's last paragraph in <dp90s6$[hidden email]>.


Karsten
--
       Freiheit stirbt        |       Fsayannes SF&F-Bibliothek:
            Mit Sicherheit    |       http://fsayanne.tprac.de/
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Karsten Düsterloh
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
Chris Ilias aber hob zu reden an und schrieb:

>>> Will the newsgroups be propagated to Usenet at large? Will the
>>> newsgroups be accessible through Google Groups?
>>>
>>> These two questions are connected; propagation has both upsides and
>>> downsides. The downsides are that propagation means that we can't
>>> really do post deletions, and a failure to control spam may affect
>>> developer participation. It's been decided, at least initially, to
>>> limit propagation to only GigaNews and Google Groups. We have
>>> agreements in place with both services to not propagate messages any
>>> further. Based on feedback from the community, this may change at
>>> some point in the future, but deciding to allow propagation is an
>>> irreversible decision so we're starting out the "safe" way. :)
>
> Not going to usenet is the 'anti-spam measure'. Besides, as I understand
> it, Google access will be read-only.

So we disagree on the interpretation of a text not written by either of
us - that doesn't prove much, but - as I wrote - we'll see. ;-)


Karsten
--
       Freiheit stirbt        |       Fsayannes SF&F-Bibliothek:
            Mit Sicherheit    |       http://fsayanne.tprac.de/
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
_John A._ spoke thusly on 01/01/2006 10:55 PM:
> I still don't get it. In my experience there hasn't been enough spam
> in the existing propagated groups to be noticeable. Why the concern?
>
> Propagated developer groups, and non propagated user/support groups,
> and now switching to all non propagated groups to get rid of spam
> that's not there. I think whoever's in charge of Mozilla's groups
> strategy should take a page out of George Costanza's book and just do
> the opposite of their first inclination. (Or if that's what their
> doing now they should stop.)

Of course, /you/ don't think spam is a problem. You're access this group
via Adelphia, who use Giganews' ISP Outsourcing Service for usenet.
http://www.giganews.com/news/article/40

You see how good their spam filtering is? :-)

FWIW, the decision of whether not to propagate to usenet affects so many
other characteristics than spam. I think it was just a matter of the
cons outweighing the pros. Plus, as the Giganews migration FAQ states,
"deciding to allow propagation is an irreversible decision so we're
starting out the "safe" way. :) "
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Frank Wein
Chris Ilias wrote:

> _John A._ spoke thusly on 01/01/2006 10:55 PM:
>> I still don't get it. In my experience there hasn't been enough spam
>> in the existing propagated groups to be noticeable. Why the concern?
>>
>> Propagated developer groups, and non propagated user/support groups,
>> and now switching to all non propagated groups to get rid of spam
>> that's not there. I think whoever's in charge of Mozilla's groups
>> strategy should take a page out of George Costanza's book and just do
>> the opposite of their first inclination. (Or if that's what their
>> doing now they should stop.)
>
> Of course, /you/ don't think spam is a problem. You're access this group
> via Adelphia, who use Giganews' ISP Outsourcing Service for usenet.
> http://www.giganews.com/news/article/40

Oh i access news.mozilla.org and i still don't think there has been that
much spam. Yes, there have been some spam waves in the last year, but
most were canceled quite in time. Anyway, a good Cleanfeed install
probably would have solved this, too ;).

Frank
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Christian Biesinger
Frank Wein wrote:
> Oh i access news.mozilla.org and i still don't think there has been that
> much spam.

That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...

smime.p7s (6K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Ron Lopshire
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
Robert Kaiser wrote:

> Ron Lopshire schrieb:
>
>> 2) It is my understanding, based on the posts of others in various Moz
>> NGs, that the SeaMonkey development team is no longer with Mozilla,
>> including the Foundation, mozilla.org and mozilla.com. If that is
>> wrong, please correct me.
>
>
> So then let me correct you ;-)
>
> The SeaMonkey project is still fully with mozilla.org, is legally
> represented by the Mozilla Foundation, and the Foundation is supporting
> our project, mainly through allowing us to use their infrastructure
> (project web pages, CVS repository, FTP space, newsgroups/mailing lists,
> "tinderboxen" and such stuff).
>
> In the new mozilla.* newsgroup hierarchy, we'll even have seperate user
> and developer newsgroups for the SeaMonkey project (note that this group
> here, n.p.m.seamonkey is originally NOT about the SeaMonkey project, but
> about mozilla.org project organization, which will have a seperate and
> better named group in the new hierarchy as well).
>
> Robert Kaiser

Thanks, Robert. We Netscape/Suite users/aficionados can now begin the
New Year with that warm and fuzzy feeling.

Happy New Year to you and yours, as well.
Ron :)
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarc

Ron Lopshire
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet
Simon Paquet wrote:

> Ron Lopshire wrote on 31.12.2005:
>
>> See my reply to Karsten. My post was based on the belief that the
>> SeaMonkey group split with Mozilla over, as the saying goes, creative
>> differences. This belief is based on posts by others who, IMO, should
>> be in a position to know whether or not this is true.
>
>
> The split was not over creative differences, but over QA ressources. The
> Mozilla Foundation wanted to concentrate on its flagship products FF and
> TB and didn't want to release Suite releases which weren't up to par with
> the quality one could expect from a official Mozilla product.
>
> So they announced the end of the Mozilla Suite and asked volunteers to
> step up and continue to maintain the Suite under a new name, which is
> what happened.
>

Thanks for the clarification, Simon.

Ron :)
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Ron Lopshire
In reply to this post by Ron Lopshire
John A. wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:00:01 -0500, Ron Lopshire <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> ...
>
>>Not trying to step on any toes, here. Just concerns, that's all. FF
>>and TB, are, after all, still not IE and OE. One would hope that this
>>would remain so.
>
>
> I have bad news for you in that case. Have you seen the screen shots
> of IE7? It appears MS is attempting to meet FF, at least, more than
> halfway. ;)

OMG, John. I am afraid to look. <g> At any rate, I will keep my IE
locked down, and use it only for Microsoft Updates.

Ron ;)
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

gwtc
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
Christian Biesinger wrote:
> Frank Wein wrote:
>
>>Oh i access news.mozilla.org and i still don't think there has been that
>>much spam.
>
>
> That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...
someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Christian Biesinger
gwtc wrote:
> someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"

You are probably missing the root certificate - https://trust.web.de

smime.p7s (6K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by gwtc
_gwtc_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 1:50 PM:
> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>
>> That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...
> someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"

I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google Groups
and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in text groups.
Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary attachments. (TXT,
CSS, and ICS files are okay.)

My message is in reply to gwtc, because Christian Biesinger's message
never showed up here (Giganews).
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Frank Wein
Chris Ilias wrote:

> _gwtc_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 1:50 PM:
>> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>>
>>> That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...
>> someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"
>
> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google Groups
> and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in text groups.
> Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary attachments. (TXT,
> CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>
> My message is in reply to gwtc, because Christian Biesinger's message
> never showed up here (Giganews).

Heh, they should special-case S/MIME (or do they just filter out any
binary so you switch to their Premium account which costs more money ;) :).

Frank
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

gwtc
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
Chris Ilias wrote:

> _gwtc_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 1:50 PM:
>
>>Christian Biesinger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...
>>
>>someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"
>
>
> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google Groups
> and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in text groups.
> Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary attachments. (TXT,
> CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>
> My message is in reply to gwtc, because Christian Biesinger's message
> never showed up here (Giganews).
Good, then maybe we'll see less of those vcards.  And what about those
who use enigmail with PGP or GPG?  Do those messages get filtered out,
too?
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by Frank Wein
_Frank Wein_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 3:52 PM:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google Groups
>> and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in text groups.
>> Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary attachments. (TXT,
>> CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>
> Heh, they should special-case S/MIME (or do they just filter out any
> binary so you switch to their Premium account which costs more money ;) :).

No, same filtering for every account. The only difference between
accounts (besides price) is bandwidth.
- 10 connections
- over 875 days retention
- speed test here: http://www.giganews.com/status.html


The ISP service does offer different speed caps. Do you know if Giganews
is capping the speed on news.mozilla.org?
See http://www.giganews.com/outsourcing.html
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by gwtc
_gwtc_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 4:17 PM:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google
>> Groups and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in
>> text groups. Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary
>> attachments. (TXT, CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>
> Good, then maybe we'll see less of those vcards.  And what about those
> who use enigmail with PGP or GPG?  Do those messages get filtered out, too?

Messages with...
vCards: not filtered
PGP or GPG: I'm pretty sure they aren't filtered.
While we're at it, HTML isn't filtered either.
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Frank Wein
In reply to this post by gwtc
gwtc wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> _gwtc_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 1:50 PM:
>>
>>> Christian Biesinger wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> That depends a lot on which newsgroups you are reading...
>>>
>>> someone using a "Digital Signature [that] is not Valid"
>>
>>
>> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google
>> Groups and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in
>> text groups. Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary
>> attachments. (TXT, CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>>
>> My message is in reply to gwtc, because Christian Biesinger's message
>> never showed up here (Giganews).
> Good, then maybe we'll see less of those vcards.  And what about those
> who use enigmail with PGP or GPG?  Do those messages get filtered out, too?

If you use PGP/MIME, probably. You can use inline PGP so, this will not
be filtered (since it's normal text).

Frank
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Chris Ilias
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
_Chris Ilias_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 4:52 PM:

> _Frank Wein_ spoke thusly on 02/01/2006 3:52 PM:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> I guess now is as good a time as any to mention that both Google Groups
>>> and Giganews filter out messages with binary attachments in text groups.
>>> Google and Giganews treat SMIME signatures as binary attachments. (TXT,
>>> CSS, and ICS files are okay.)
>>
>> Heh, they should special-case S/MIME (or do they just filter out any
>> binary so you switch to their Premium account which costs more money
>> ;) :).
>
> No, same filtering for every account. The only difference between
> accounts (besides price) is bandwidth.
> - 10 connections
> - over 875 days retention
> - speed test here: http://www.giganews.com/status.html
>
> The ISP service does offer different speed caps. Do you know if Giganews
> is capping the speed on news.mozilla.org?
> See http://www.giganews.com/outsourcing.html

Some more server info worth noting:
- Giganews does not honour message cancels
- XPAT searches are not supported, which means in Thunderbird 'Edit ->
Find -> Search Messages' will not work. Same goes goes for 'Tools ->
Search Messages' in SeaMonkey. See:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147884>
--
Chris Ilias - Mozilla Champion
Netscape/Mozilla Links <http://ilias.ca>
Mozilla Help <http://mozillahelp.com>
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Migration to new news server and reorganization of netscape.public.* hierarchy

Christian Biesinger
In reply to this post by Chris Ilias
Chris Ilias wrote:
> Messages with...
> vCards: not filtered
> PGP or GPG: I'm pretty sure they aren't filtered.
> While we're at it, HTML isn't filtered either.

Bleh, but S/MIME is filtered? That sucks.
_______________________________________________
Mozilla-seamonkey mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/mozilla-seamonkey
1234