Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

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Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Axel Hecht
Hi,

I'm wondering re strings in pdf.js.

We have a few strings like

"Page: 5 of 16 pages"

or just

"Snapshot of page 87"

I'd like to gather feedback on whether the grammar of the phrase needs
to adapt to the page number?
I guess it probably needs to adapt to the total number, at least?

Grammar-logic-wise, I can see a difference between "15 pages" or "1 page
at spot 15". But I can't make any judgement on how generic that works
across languages.

Thanks

Axel
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Re: Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Michael Wolf-2
Axel Hecht schrieb:

> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering re strings in pdf.js.
>
> We have a few strings like
>
> "Page: 5 of 16 pages"
>
> or just
>
> "Snapshot of page 87"
>
> I'd like to gather feedback on whether the grammar of the phrase needs
> to adapt to the page number?
> I guess it probably needs to adapt to the total number, at least?
>
> Grammar-logic-wise, I can see a difference between "15 pages" or "1 page
> at spot 15". But I can't make any judgement on how generic that works
> across languages.

Hi Axel,

for your first case I think only the normal Mozilla plural rule after 16
is used fo "pages". "5" doesnt'have any noun behind. The word pages is
dependant from "16" only. For the word "Page" I assume that a page
number is meant here, not the number of pages. So the singular remains.
But if you say "5 pages of 16 pages" the plural rule must be used behind
"5" as well. E. g. for Upper Sorbian:

Strona: 5 z 16 stronow
Strona: 5 stronow z 16 stronow **but**
Strona: 3 strony z 16 stronow (behind number "3" is used another part of
the Upper Sorbian plural rule 10)

But I think, such a construction with double noun is seldom used. Behind
the last number (16) the using the plural rule must be possible!

If Page: is not meant for 1 age only but for a range of pages this word
should be used in plural (in Upper Sorbian even in dual as well) but it
without rule. It is distinguished between numerus forms only:

Upper Sorbian: strona (singular) - stronje (dual) - strony (plural)

In your second example "page 87" is an apposition only. There isn't used
a rule for.

Finally the preposition "of" must be still considered: In the first
example the Sorbian preposition "z" is used with genitive. So the
Sorbian forms of pages are in genitive then
(strony;stronow;stronow;stronow). Here only singular has a special form.
The plural rule is valid for nominative and accusative only - e.g.:
strona;stronje;strony;stronow.

In the second example any preposition is not used but the genitive of
"page" only. Because it is one page here only the genitive singular is
used: "strony". If there ar e.g. pages 87-88 the dual is used (not page
but [two] pages: stronow. The same s valid for three pages 87-89 and
more pages e.g. 87-95. In Upper Sorbian the genitive forms for dual and
plural are identical: stronow. Finally the Upper Sorbian translations of
your examples:

**Strona: 5 z 16 stronow**
**Njejapke foto strony 87**

Regards,

Michael


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Re: Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez-2
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
El 05/06/12 00:41, Axel Hecht escribió:

> I'm wondering re strings in pdf.js.
>
> We have a few strings like
>
> "Page: 5 of 16 pages"
>
> or just
>
> "Snapshot of page 87"
>
> I'd like to gather feedback on whether the grammar of the phrase needs
> to adapt to the page number?


Spanish work mostly like English here. Just as in English you would say:

  Page: 5 of 16 pages

but you would probably say

  Page: 1 of 1 page

although we're used to the

  Page: 1 of 1 pages

form, too. The same works for Spanish:

Página: 5 de 16 páginas
Página: 1 de 1 página
Página: 1 de 1 páginas

In "Snapshot of page 87", I'd say that "page" refers to a single
element, regardless of its "name" (~number). Spanish works like
English here.

HTH

--
Ricardo Palomares (RickieES)
http://www.mozilla-hispano.org/
http://www.proyectonave.es/
https://diasp.eu/u/rickiees


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Re: Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Fjoerfoks
Might be easier to simplify this by leaving the second "page(s)" out, so
Page 2 from 16.

Wim

2012/6/5 Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez <[hidden email]>

> El 05/06/12 00:41, Axel Hecht escribió:
> > I'm wondering re strings in pdf.js.
> >
> > We have a few strings like
> >
> > "Page: 5 of 16 pages"
> >
> > or just
> >
> > "Snapshot of page 87"
> >
> > I'd like to gather feedback on whether the grammar of the phrase needs
> > to adapt to the page number?
>
>
> Spanish work mostly like English here. Just as in English you would say:
>
>  Page: 5 of 16 pages
>
> but you would probably say
>
>  Page: 1 of 1 page
>
> although we're used to the
>
>  Page: 1 of 1 pages
>
> form, too. The same works for Spanish:
>
> Página: 5 de 16 páginas
> Página: 1 de 1 página
> Página: 1 de 1 páginas
>
> In "Snapshot of page 87", I'd say that "page" refers to a single
> element, regardless of its "name" (~number). Spanish works like
> English here.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Ricardo Palomares (RickieES)
> http://www.mozilla-hispano.org/
> http://www.proyectonave.es/
> https://diasp.eu/u/rickiees
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>
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Re: Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Rimas Kudelis
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
Hi Axel,

2012.06.05 01:41, Axel Hecht rašė:

> I'm wondering re strings in pdf.js.
>
> We have a few strings like
>
> "Page: 5 of 16 pages"
>
> or just
>
> "Snapshot of page 87"
>
> I'd like to gather feedback on whether the grammar of the phrase needs
> to adapt to the page number?

For Lithuanian, no.

> I guess it probably needs to adapt to the total number, at least?

Yes, of course.

Rimas
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Re: Language Experts: Page numbers and number of pages, aka "page 4 of 20" and plurals

Vito Smolej-3
Hi Axel:

The first problem ("Page: 5 of 16 pages") could be solved by asking for "Page 5 of 16"  or ""Page: 5 of 16" instead.

Having page coming up twice in such a short segment is a pleonasm.

Regards

Vito
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