Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

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Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Ron Hunter
On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>
My response to that would be "No.  Bye."  Might as well ask for me to
sign a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account,
or to authorize them to charge to my credit cards.  But they can't ask
me if I have AIDS, or if I am married?  Darn strange!

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Bill Braun-3
On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>
>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>
>>
> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!

Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking
advantage of a fuzzy part of the regs?
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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

David H. Lipman-2
From: "Bill B" <[hidden email]>

> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>
>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>
>>>
>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>
> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking advantage of a
> fuzzy part of the regs?

They can't ask you to give up your password.
They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.


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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Bill Braun-3
On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:

> From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
>
>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>
>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>
>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking advantage of a
>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>
> They can't ask you to give up your password.
> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.

Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could ask
for anything that is private in the context that you can display it if
you choose, but you don't have to if you choose not.

Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are
married (as Ron mentioned)?


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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Bill Braun-3
On 20.03.2012 13:30, Bill B wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>
>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>
> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking
> advantage of a fuzzy part of the regs?

I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
interviewer/company to make the next move.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

David H. Lipman-2
In reply to this post by Bill Braun-3
From: "Bill B" <[hidden email]>

> On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>> From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>>
>>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking advantage of a
>>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>>
>> They can't ask you to give up your password.
>> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>
> Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could ask for anything
> that is private in the context that you can display it if you choose, but you don't have
> to if you choose not.
>
> Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are married (as Ron
> mentioned)?
>

Asking about AIDS is covered under HIPPA.
Asking about marital status is covered under another law.
Asking for you Login Name and Password is covered under Federal Law and the AUP/ToS of the
service the account is for.  The article indicates that while it is against Federal Law to
be forced to divulge your account credentials it went on to say it may be something the
DoJ would not prosecute.

As long as there is no specific law covering this concept and employer will try to get
whatever they can to vet the employee.

--
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http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp 


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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by David H. Lipman-2
On 20.03.2012 13:34, David H. Lipman wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> From: "Bill B" <[hidden email]>
>
>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>
>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>
>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking advantage of a
>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>
> They can't ask you to give up your password.
> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>
>

A company can ask but they must ask every candidate or be liable for
discrimination if they only ask one or two, etc. And you are not
required to give the information.

There are no laws specifically protecting the social networking privacy
of job seekers and employees. But be aware that if you use the company
computers to access your social networking site then you are at a
greater risk. You can also be terminated for using company internet
access for other than company business.

Here are 30 questions a company cannot ask, at least directly:

http://www.focus.com/fyi/30-interview-questions-you-cant-ask-and-30-sneaky-legal-get/

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Bill Braun-3
On 20.03.2012 13:44, Bill B wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>> From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to
>>>> sign
>>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>>
>>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking
>>> advantage of a
>>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>>
>> They can't ask you to give up your password.
>> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>
> Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could ask
> for anything that is private in the context that you can display it if
> you choose, but you don't have to if you choose not.
>
> Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are
> married (as Ron mentioned)?
>
>

See my reply to David with the link to the 30 questions you cannot be
asked (directly). And yes, you can be asked if you are married, there is
a checkbox for marital status on most if not all job applications.


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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by David H. Lipman-2
On 20.03.2012 14:15, David H. Lipman wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> From: "Bill B" <[hidden email]>
>
>> On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>>> From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to sign
>>>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>>>
>>>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking advantage of a
>>>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>>>
>>> They can't ask you to give up your password.
>>> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>>
>> Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could ask for anything
>> that is private in the context that you can display it if you choose, but you don't have
>> to if you choose not.
>>
>> Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are married (as Ron
>> mentioned)?
>>
>
> Asking about AIDS is covered under HIPPA.
> Asking about marital status is covered under another law.
> Asking for you Login Name and Password is covered under Federal Law and the AUP/ToS of the
> service the account is for.  The article indicates that while it is against Federal Law to
> be forced to divulge your account credentials it went on to say it may be something the
> DoJ would not prosecute.
>
> As long as there is no specific law covering this concept and employer will try to get
> whatever they can to vet the employee.
>

Employers SHOULD not but CAN ask the following:

    Race
    Color
    Sex
    Religion
    National origin
    Birthplace
    Age
    Disability
    Marital/family status

You don't have to answer any of them and if you do answer one or more,
the employer cannot discriminate based on the answer.

An employer CAN ask if you are authorized to work in the U.S. but cannot
ask if you are a U.S. Citizen. It can get rather tricky.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Dave Warren-2
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
Jay Garcia <[hidden email]> said:

>I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>interviewer/company to make the next move.

Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
this moment.

Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.

On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
don't use Facebook"
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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Dave Warren-2
In reply to this post by Bill Braun-3
In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
Bill B <[hidden email]> said:

>Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking
>advantage of a fuzzy part of the regs?

We have this thing called "freedom", which basically means that anything
not explicitly prohibited by law (including common-law and
black-letter-law, depending on your jurisdiction) is permitted.

So unless someone can find a reason that a business cannot make this
request of applicants, then yes, it's legal.

That doesn't make it moral or right, and a court might step in at some
point, but until that happens...
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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

clay-14
In reply to this post by Dave Warren-2
On 03/20/2012 1:47 PM, Dave Warren wrote:

> In the last episode of<[hidden email]>,
> Jay Garcia<[hidden email]>  said:
>
>>I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>>interviewer/company to make the next move.
>
> Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
> employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
> this moment.
>
> Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
>
> On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
> before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
> don't use Facebook"

Or, in my case I have never had and will never have a FaceSpace page...

(at least, not a legit one. I may have created a throwaway one in order
to view others...)

Sadly, (some) companies are screening strictly based on an applicants
presence on the Internet.
...moving farther away from reality and into the fantasy world which is
the WWW.
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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Dave Warren-2
On 20.03.2012 15:47, Dave Warren wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> In the last episode of <[hidden email]>,
> Jay Garcia <[hidden email]> said:
>
>>I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>>interviewer/company to make the next move.
>
> Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
> employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
> this moment.
>
> Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
>
> On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
> before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
> don't use Facebook"

Unfortunately the applicant isn't in the most advantageous position as
the one needing the job. If the applicant refuses and is denied
employment, it would be next to impossible to prove that the denial was
based on the applicant's refusal to supply the logon information.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 3/20/2012 2:20 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 20.03.2012 13:44, Bill B wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>>> From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me to
>>>>> sign
>>>>> a signature card so they can write checks on my checking account, or to
>>>>> authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But they can't ask me if I
>>>>> have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn strange!
>>>>
>>>> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just taking
>>>> advantage of a
>>>> fuzzy part of the regs?
>>>
>>> They can't ask you to give up your password.
>>> They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>>
>> Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could ask
>> for anything that is private in the context that you can display it if
>> you choose, but you don't have to if you choose not.
>>
>> Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are
>> married (as Ron mentioned)?
>>
>>
>
> See my reply to David with the link to the 30 questions you cannot be
> asked (directly). And yes, you can be asked if you are married, there is
> a checkbox for marital status on most if not all job applications.
>
>
And all I have ever filled out ask for a date of birth.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by clay-14
On 3/20/2012 4:00 PM, clay wrote:

> On 03/20/2012 1:47 PM, Dave Warren wrote:
>> In the last episode of<[hidden email]>,
>> Jay Garcia<[hidden email]> said:
>>
>>> I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>>> interviewer/company to make the next move.
>>
>> Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
>> employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
>> this moment.
>>
>> Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
>>
>> On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
>> before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
>> don't use Facebook"
>
> Or, in my case I have never had and will never have a FaceSpace page...
>
> (at least, not a legit one. I may have created a throwaway one in order
> to view others...)
>
> Sadly, (some) companies are screening strictly based on an applicants
> presence on the Internet.
> ...moving farther away from reality and into the fantasy world which is
> the WWW.

I have a rather significant visibility on the internet, but my Facebook
profile is for friends, and family, not for ANY business to use.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Jay Garcia
On 3/20/2012 5:04 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 20.03.2012 15:47, Dave Warren wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> In the last episode of<[hidden email]>,
>> Jay Garcia<[hidden email]>  said:
>>
>>> I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>>> interviewer/company to make the next move.
>>
>> Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
>> employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
>> this moment.
>>
>> Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
>>
>> On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
>> before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
>> don't use Facebook"
>
> Unfortunately the applicant isn't in the most advantageous position as
> the one needing the job. If the applicant refuses and is denied
> employment, it would be next to impossible to prove that the denial was
> based on the applicant's refusal to supply the logon information.
>
I suppose you could give them the information, then step out and delete
the account on your smartphone...

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

Bill Braun-3
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 3/20/2012 7:47 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 3/20/2012 4:00 PM, clay wrote:
>> On 03/20/2012 1:47 PM, Dave Warren wrote:
>>> In the last episode of<[hidden email]>,
>>> Jay Garcia<[hidden email]> said:
>>>
>>>> I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
>>>> interviewer/company to make the next move.
>>>
>>> Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
>>> employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
>>> this moment.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
>>> before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
>>> don't use Facebook"
>>
>> Or, in my case I have never had and will never have a FaceSpace page...
>>
>> (at least, not a legit one. I may have created a throwaway one in order
>> to view others...)
>>
>> Sadly, (some) companies are screening strictly based on an applicants
>> presence on the Internet.
>> ...moving farther away from reality and into the fantasy world which is
>> the WWW.
>
> I have a rather significant visibility on the internet, but my Facebook
> profile is for friends, and family, not for ANY business to use.

I wonder if the generation of people that so readily makes things public
really care if they are asked about their private lives. It isn't any
different from "friending" a potential employer.

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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

»Q«
In reply to this post by Bill Braun-3
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:44:13 -0400
Bill B <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/20/2012 2:34 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
> > From: "Bill B"<[hidden email]>
> >
> >> On 3/20/2012 2:17 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
> >>> On 3/20/2012 10:32 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> >>>> The ghost of George Orwell is alive and well:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://finance.yahoo.com/news/job-seekers-getting-asked-facebook-080920368.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> My response to that would be "No. Bye." Might as well ask for me
> >>> to sign a signature card so they can write checks on my checking
> >>> account, or to authorize them to charge to my credit cards. But
> >>> they can't ask me if I have AIDS, or if I am married? Darn
> >>> strange!
> >>
> >> Is it clear they CAN ask this of applicants, or are they just
> >> taking advantage of a fuzzy part of the regs?
> >
> > They can't ask you to give up your password.
> > They can ask you to logon and show them your profile.
>
> Taken one level of abstraction, it would seem that an employer could
> ask for anything that is private in the context that you can display
> it if you choose, but you don't have to if you choose not.
>
> Isn't that essentially the same as asking if you have AIDS or are
> married (as Ron mentioned)?

In the U.S. at least, there are specific laws against asking about
certain things, including medical info.  I wonder what the interviewers
would do if an applicant said "I've posted some info on facebook, for
friends, which is illegal for you to ask me to provide."  I may log in
tonight to let all my friends know whether or not I'm HIV-positive. ;)
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Re: Job Applicants Being Asked For User/Pass Login Information

defaria
In reply to this post by Dave Warren-2
On 03/20/2012 01:47 PM, Dave Warren wrote:
In the last episode of [hidden email],
Jay Garcia [hidden email] said:

I would have refused to answer but not walked out, leaving it up to the
interviewer/company to make the next move.
Pretty much. This works better in skilled forms of employment, where the
employer doesn't have 997 other applicants in the waiting room right at
this moment.

Unfortunately if you're completely unskilled, you may have less options.
You have the option to get some skills! Many of us have! YOU decided not to. I have little sympathy for you.
On the other hand, one can simply deactivate their Facebook account
before starting job hunting and honestly say "I cancelled my account and
don't use Facebook"
Or you can just say I don't use Facebook. Ya know. Lie.
--
Andrew DeFaria
If you're living on the edge, make sure you're wearing your seat belt.

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