Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

WaltS48-9
On 9/3/18 10:20 AM, Brian wrote:

> On 09/03/2018 10:04 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 9/3/18 4:49 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>> Mark Rousell wrote on 3/09/2018 12:05 AM:
>>>> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
>>>> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
>>>> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do
>>>> this
>>>> successfully).
>>>>
>>>> I've tried to contact the list owner via
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the
>>>> mailbox?
>>>>
>>>> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed
>>>> members
>>>> from the list.
>>>>
>>>> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris
>>>> Ilias in
>>>> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>>>>
>>> I don't do the list, I do NNTP instead, but I thought there were
>>> instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail explaining how to
>>> un-subscribe from the lists.
>>>
>>
>> There should be, but they should have also bookmarked the web page
>> where they signed up.
>>
>
> In the exchanges I had with Avas Flowers, they were adamant that they
> did NOT sign up for the lists, they just suddenly began receiving the
> posts.
>

Why do they have a post in this group dated Jan 3rd if they didn't sign up?

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.general/zlrJ0-ZBLPk/PmrsR8U_AgAJ>

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
On 09/03/2018 10:34 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 9/3/18 10:20 AM, Brian wrote:
>> On 09/03/2018 10:04 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 9/3/18 4:49 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>>> Mark Rousell wrote on 3/09/2018 12:05 AM:
>>>>> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers
>>>>> who, it
>>>>> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
>>>>> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do
>>>>> this
>>>>> successfully).
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried to contact the list owner via
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the
>>>>> mailbox?
>>>>>
>>>>> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed
>>>>> members
>>>>> from the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris
>>>>> Ilias in
>>>>> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't do the list, I do NNTP instead, but I thought there were
>>>> instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail explaining how to
>>>> un-subscribe from the lists.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There should be, but they should have also bookmarked the web page
>>> where they signed up.
>>>
>>
>> In the exchanges I had with Avas Flowers, they were adamant that they
>> did NOT sign up for the lists, they just suddenly began receiving the
>> posts.
>>
>
> Why do they have a post in this group dated Jan 3rd if they didn't
> sign up?
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.general/zlrJ0-ZBLPk/PmrsR8U_AgAJ>
>
>

I'm only reporting what they told me in the exchange I had with them.
They were most emphatic about not having signed up. Possibly a
previous employee is to blame?

If they've been signed up continuously since Jan 3rd, then they do
seem to have taken an extraordinarily long time to start complaining
about it!


Brian.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
On 09/03/2018 01:37 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

> On 03/09/2018 15:53, Brian wrote:
>> I'm only reporting what they told me in the exchange I had with them.
>> They were most emphatic about not having signed up. Possibly a
>> previous employee is to blame?
>>
>
> Perhaps you can send them this link to unsubscribe:
>
> <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/general>
>
> I don't have their contact eMail so you can do it and save us the
> hassle to filter their spam.  you said you had a contact with them in
> the past so please do it.
>

Done. Let's see whether it sorts the problem. Their address is
[hidden email], BTW.


Brian.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Wolf K.
On 2018-09-03 14:54, Brian wrote:

> On 09/03/2018 01:37 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
>> On 03/09/2018 15:53, Brian wrote:
>>> I'm only reporting what they told me in the exchange I had with them.
>>> They were most emphatic about not having signed up. Possibly a
>>> previous employee is to blame?
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps you can send them this link to unsubscribe:
>>
>> <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/general>
>>
>> I don't have their contact eMail so you can do it and save us the
>> hassle to filter their spam.  you said you had a contact with them in
>> the past so please do it.
>>
>
> Done. Let's see whether it sorts the problem. Their address is
> [hidden email], BTW.
>
>
> Brian.
>


I've seen emails from them, I think they've been hacked or hi-jacked.
I've put them in a filter.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Daniel-2
On 03/09/2018 09:49, Daniel wrote:
> I thought there were instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail
> explaining how to un-subscribe from the lists.

They are not subscribed under the address they thought they were (and
they had no idea how they got signed up). The situation is now in hand.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
Just a quick update. This is now in hand thanks to Dave Miller of
Mozilla. Action is being taken.


On 02/09/2018 15:05, Mark Rousell wrote:

> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
> successfully).
>
> I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the mailbox?
>
> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
> from the list.
>
> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Brian-2
On 03/09/2018 15:20, Brian wrote:
> Apparently this didn't work (at least, I told them to try it). I
> suspect Mark may have got the answer, that someone is/was forwarding
> them list messages maliciously.

This is a possibility. It fits best with the information I have so far,
although simple incompetence or former employees may be just as valid
answers.

We'll see how things work out.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Brian-2
On 03/09/2018 18:37, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
> On 03/09/2018 15:53, Brian wrote:
>> I'm only reporting what they told me in the exchange I had with them.
>> They were most emphatic about not having signed up. Possibly a
>> previous employee is to blame?
>>
>
> Perhaps you can send them this link to unsubscribe:
>
> <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/general>

As per my other comments, this has already been tried (by me) and it
won't help them.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by WaltS48-9
On 03/09/2018 15:34, WaltS48 wrote:
>
> Why do they have a post in this group dated Jan 3rd if they didn't
> sign up?
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.general/zlrJ0-ZBLPk/PmrsR8U_AgAJ>
>

The post of theirs you link to only proves that they were receiving
messages from the list and that their CRM system sent out an auto-reply.
It does NOT show that they knowingly or willingly signed up to the list.

It would seem that they got on the list somehow but they don't know how
or (so far) with what subscribed address. This is why they can't
unsubscribe themselves using the web interface. As I mentioned, this is
now in hand and investigations are under way to find out the address
they are subscribed with.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by WaltS48-9
On 03/09/2018 17:37, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

> On 03/09/2018 15:34, WaltS48 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>> Why do they have a post in this group dated Jan 3rd if they didn't
>> sign up?
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.general/zlrJ0-ZBLPk/PmrsR8U_AgAJ>
>>
>>
>
> Yes it proves conclusively that they must have subscribed to the list.

No, it proves only that they are subscribed to the list but that has
never been in doubt. That's how they are getting the messages, of course.

The problem is that they don't know how they signed up or with what
address. I now know that they are definitely *not* signed up with their
customer service email address from which some of us have received
emails. Investigations are under way to find out their actual subscribed
email address and to then remove it from the list.

The cause of this could be good old incompetence or perhaps malicious
intent by someone. It doesn't really matter. It only matters that their
subscribed address is found and then removed and, to repeat once more,
this is under way.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
Note also that I suspect that any further emails to them at this stage
are unlikely to help. Such emails are only likely to confuse them further.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

😉 Good Guy 😉
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 03/09/2018 21:15, Mark Rousell wrote:
> The post of theirs you link to only proves that they were receiving
> messages from the list and that their CRM system sent out an auto-reply.
> It does NOT show that they knowingly or willingly signed up to the list.

Of course it proves that they had an account.  Lists won't post anything
unless you are registered.  Even if you are just replying to something
like  "AutoResponder".

All Tech companies are going for Forum based Customer Support because
they can control what is posted and by whom.  Anonymous posting is gone
for ever.  We are fortunate that we have NNTP for Mozilla Products but
these are not going to last indefinitely.


>
> It would seem that they got on the list somehow but they don't know how
> or (so far) with what subscribed address. This is why they can't
> unsubscribe themselves using the web interface. As I mentioned, this is
> now in hand and investigations are under way to find out the address
> they are subscribed with.
>


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

WaltS48-9
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 9/3/18 4:19 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:
> It only matters that their
> subscribed address is found and then removed and, to repeat once more,
> this is under way.

I have a couple list subscriptions I know I signed up for but the email
address is no longer valid and I can't Unsubscribe. Don't get any emails
from those lists, so it doesn't matter.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

😉 Good Guy 😉
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 03/09/2018 21:19, Mark Rousell wrote:
>
> The problem is that they don't know how they signed up or with what
> address.

This is plain silly.  They are subscribed with the address that is
receiving the posts.  Mozilla Lists will never allow you to register
with one address and get posts on other.  It just doesn't happen on
modern Forums.

The address they have used is something like this:

Return-Path: <[hidden email]>

Now they should know what "ro..." is or whose eMail account (i.e. which
employees eMail account) is that.    Somebody in their Organization has
or had an eMail account like: <[hidden email]>

This guy Miller you are dealing with might be able to search for that
registrant and unsubscribe him.

>


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
On 03/09/2018 21:26, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
> On 03/09/2018 21:15, Mark Rousell wrote:
>> The post of theirs you link to only proves that they were receiving
>> messages from the list and that their CRM system sent out an auto-reply.
>> It does NOT show that they knowingly or willingly signed up to the list.
>
> Of course it proves that they had an account.  Lists won't post
> anything unless you are registered.  Even if you are just replying to
> something like  "AutoResponder".

Yes, clearly they were and are signed up with an account (as I've said
more than once) because they are receiving emails from the list but that
still doesn't tell us how they got signed up or on what address at present.

Back in January they were signed up with the From address on the post of
theirs you linked to (I have the post in my local archive and have the
address) but that doesn't mean they are still subscribed on that address.

As I said, the matter is now in hand with the person who can take the
necessary action

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by 😉 Good Guy 😉
On 03/09/2018 21:35, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

> This is plain silly.  They are subscribed with the address that is
> receiving the posts.  Mozilla Lists will never allow you to register
> with one address and get posts on other.  It just doesn't happen on
> modern Forums.
>
> The address they have used is something like this:
>
> Return-Path: <[hidden email]>
>
> Now they should know what "ro..." is or whose eMail account (i.e.
> which employees eMail account) is that.    Somebody in their
> Organization has or had an eMail account like:
> <[hidden email]>

The hidden address there is "[hidden email]". (I have it in
my local archive).

> This guy Miller you are dealing with might be able to search for that
> registrant and unsubscribe him.

As I said, the matter is in hand with him.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 03/09/2018 21:52, Mark Rousell wrote:
> The hidden address there is "[hidden email]". (I have it
> in my local archive).

I should add that avas6.avasflowers.com has no MX record so they aren't
receiving email there at present.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
Looks like this is finally fixed. They've been removed from the mail list.

Thanks for Dave Miller for his help on this.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 07/09/2018 04:05, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:

> On 07/09/2018 02:48, Mark Rousell wrote:
>> Looks like this is finally fixed. They've been removed from the mail
>> list.
>>
>> Thanks for Dave Miller for his help on this.
>>
>>
>
> Are you talking about those flowers thing?  If so, we won't know about
> them because they don't appear in NNTP via Thunderbird.  It might have
> been a forum problem.  I have not seen a single one in these
> newsgroups.  The only one I saw was when Walt posted a Google link.

As I explained, the problem was that they were emailing requests to be
unsubscribed to some individual group members; they were *not* emailing
the group itself (except for the single post that WaltS48 found from
January) so most list/group members would not have seen their emails.
Only those members whom they chose to email would have seen them. It was
nothing to do with any forums.

Anyway, the problem is now solved.


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