Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

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Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
successfully).

I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the mailbox?

Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
from the list.

Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
I've posted a bug about this issue (non-monitored owner mailbox). I'll
provide a follow-up here when I receive a response.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 09/02/2018 10:05 AM, Mark Rousell wrote:
> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
> successfully).
>

Yes, I received a response from them about a posting I made. They
seemed to get quite annoyed when I told them that I had no power to
remove them. No doubt I'll be getting another reply from them because
of this posting...


Brian.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 19:48, Brian wrote:
> Yes, I received a response from them about a posting I made. They
> seemed to get quite annoyed when I told them that I had no power to
> remove them. No doubt I'll be getting another reply from them because
> of this posting...

I'm glad it's not just me who is receiving them.

I'm tempted to ask to speak to their IT support so that I can engage in
a more technically proficient conversation but I really don't want to do
that unless I can actually do something practical from this end, and
that's a job for whoever is the list owner.

Hopefully someone will respond to the bug I posted on
bugzilla.mozilla.org and it will be sorted something out.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 20:01, Mark Rousell wrote:
> Hopefully someone will respond to the bug I posted on
> bugzilla.mozilla.org and it will be sorted something out.

s/it will be sorted something out/it will be sorted out/


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 9/2/2018 7:05 AM, Mark Rousell wrote:

> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
> successfully).
>
> I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the mailbox?
>
> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
> from the list.
>
> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>

Contact their hosting service, determined through WhoIs.  Report them as
spamming a technical distribution list.

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David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com>

Too often, Twitter is a source of verbal vomit.  Examples include Donald
Trump, Roseanne Barr, and Elon Musk.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 9/2/2018 12:01 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:

> On 02/09/2018 19:48, Brian wrote:
>> Yes, I received a response from them about a posting I made. They
>> seemed to get quite annoyed when I told them that I had no power to
>> remove them. No doubt I'll be getting another reply from them because
>> of this posting...
>
> I'm glad it's not just me who is receiving them.
>
> I'm tempted to ask to speak to their IT support so that I can engage in
> a more technically proficient conversation but I really don't want to do
> that unless I can actually do something practical from this end, and
> that's a job for whoever is the list owner.
>
> Hopefully someone will respond to the bug I posted on
> bugzilla.mozilla.org and it will be sorted something out.

When you cite a bug in bugzilla.mozilla.org, please at least give us the
bug number.  Preferably, also give us the link to the bug report.  I
tried searching for your bug report, but I could not find it.

--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com>

Too often, Twitter is a source of verbal vomit.  Examples include Donald
Trump, Roseanne Barr, and Elon Musk.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by David E. Ross-3
On 02/09/2018 20:20, David E. Ross wrote:
> Contact their hosting service, determined through WhoIs.  Report them as
> spamming a technical distribution list.

(a) They are not sending to the list at all.
(b) They are emailing some list members directly and (annoying though it
is) it's not spam by any reasonable definition.
(c) They appear to be confused.
(d) And, right now, they could not unreasonably claim that the list is
spamming them. (They'd be incorrect but I could understand why they
might see it this way).

So I won't be telling their hosting service that they are spamming
because they're not. They simply need to be removed from the list and
they do seem to be able to do it themselves.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by David E. Ross-3
On 02/09/2018 20:29, David E. Ross wrote:
> When you cite a bug in bugzilla.mozilla.org, please at least give us the
> bug number.  Preferably, also give us the link to the bug report.  I
> tried searching for your bug report, but I could not find it.

Yup, sorry about that.  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1488070

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 20:33, Mark Rousell wrote:
> They simply need to be removed from the list and they do seem to be
> able to do it themselves.

s/they do seem to be able to do it themselves/they do not seem to be
able to do it themselves/



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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
In reply to this post by David E. Ross-3
On 09/02/2018 03:20 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

> On 9/2/2018 7:05 AM, Mark Rousell wrote:
>> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
>> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
>> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
>> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
>> successfully).
>>
>> I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
>> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the mailbox?
>>
>> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
>> from the list.
>>
>> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
>> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>>
>
> Contact their hosting service, determined through WhoIs.  Report them as
> spamming a technical distribution list.
>

Christ, you ARE a bundle of laughs, aren't you? :(

For the record, what happened with me is that I posted to one of the
lists (I think it was the wishlist, but I'm not certain) and Avas sent
me an e-mail acknowledging my e-mail, and then a second e-mail saying
that they didn't understand the question I was asking them. They then
sent a perfectly polite third message asking (after I'd tried to
explain what was happening) that I remove them from the list, and they
got a bit upset when I told them that *I* couldn't do that.

As far as I know, they've not posted to the list themselves, they just
respond privately to messages that they receive from the list. They
claimed to have no idea how their address could have been subscribed
in the first place.


Brian.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 21:51, Brian wrote:
> For the record, what happened with me is that I posted to one of the
> lists (I think it was the wishlist, but I'm not certain) and Avas sent
> me an e-mail acknowledging my e-mail

That's interesting. So it's not just this list.

I wonder if they might have been signed up somehow as a hoax (not them
hoaxing but someone hoaxing them) or someone is forwarding the list to
them to annoy them.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

๐Ÿ˜‰ Good Guy ๐Ÿ˜‰
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 20:33, Mark Rousell wrote:
>
> (b) They are emailing some list members directly and (annoying though it
> is) it's not spam by any reasonable definition.

Why use the list when you can use a NewsReader such as Thunderbird and
subscribe/create account  for these lists and post whatever you like
using a fake eMail ([hidden email]).

<news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.general>
<news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.support.firefox>
<news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.support.thunderbird>
<news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.test>
Alternatively create a filter for their eMail and send them rude eMails
to provoke them.  Are they EU based companies?  If so ask them if they
they are not complying with General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).  
Also warn them if they don't stop sending you any material that you
haven't asked for then you will have no option but to start legal
proceedings.  This should put them in their right place.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
On 02/09/2018 22:02, ๐Ÿ˜‰ Good Guy ๐Ÿ˜‰ wrote:
> Why use the list when you can use a NewsReader such as Thunderbird and
> subscribe/create account  for these lists and post whatever you like
> using a fake eMail ([hidden email]).

Because:
(a) Thunderbird's NNTP handling is not exactly as I would prefer it.
Email works better for me. (In principle I'd prefer NNTP but just not
with Thunderbird's NNTP handling as it stands).
(b) And I am happy to be contactable off-list.

> Alternatively create a filter for their eMail and send them rude
> eMails to provoke them.

I try to be a little more professional and helpful than that.

> Are they EU based companies?  If so ask them if they they are not
> complying with General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

They are US based but, regardless of their location, they are not
breaching GDPR.

(As a vastly off-topic aside, a US based business can breach GDPR as
easily as an EU one. GDPR is expressly extra-territorial in its scope.
How that would be enforced by EU enforcement agencies if the
non-compliant business is in a non-EU country without a mutual
law-enforcement treaty with an EU country or the EU itself I don't know,
but plenty of US content businesses (e.g. newspapers) are nevertheless
worried enough to block EU IP addresses entirely so as not to have to
deal with EU citizens. Of course, if the business has any presence
within the EU then it is pretty much on the hook with the EU for any
breaches worldwide).

> Also warn them if they don't stop sending you any material that you
> haven't asked for then you will have no option but to start legal
> proceedings.  This should put them in their right place.

As I mentioned to David E. Ross, they are in fact the ones receiving
material they haven't asked for. Right now, this list is effectively
spamming them(!). They are confused, don't know exactly what is
happening, and need assistance with getting themselves removed from the
list.

I am glad to say that, as a result of the bug I posted, they are now
getting that help.


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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
On 09/02/2018 05:02 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:
> On 02/09/2018 21:51, Brian wrote:
>> For the record, what happened with me is that I posted to one of the
>> lists (I think it was the wishlist, but I'm not certain) and Avas sent
>> me an e-mail acknowledging my e-mail
>
> That's interesting. So it's not just this list.
>

I checked. It was definitely the wishlist.

> I wonder if they might have been signed up somehow as a hoax (not them
> hoaxing but someone hoaxing them) or someone is forwarding the list to
> them to annoy them.
>
>

Brian.
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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
In reply to this post by ๐Ÿ˜‰ Good Guy ๐Ÿ˜‰
On 09/02/2018 05:02 PM, ๐Ÿ˜‰ Good Guy ๐Ÿ˜‰ wrote:

> On 02/09/2018 20:33, Mark Rousell wrote:
>>
>> (b) They are emailing some list members directly and (annoying
>> though it
>> is) it's not spam by any reasonable definition.
>
> Why use the list when you can use a NewsReader such as Thunderbird and
> subscribe/create accountย  for these lists and post whatever you like
> using a fake eMail ([hidden email]).
>
> <news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.general>
> <news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.support.firefox>
> <news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.support.thunderbird>
> <news://news.mozilla.org/mozilla.test>
> Alternatively create a filter for their eMail and send them rude
> eMails to provoke them.ย  Are they EU based companies?ย  If so ask them
> if they they are not complying with General Data Protection Regulation
> (GDPR).ย  Also warn them if they don't stop sending you any material
> that you haven't asked for then you will have no option but to start
> legal proceedings.ย  This should put them in their right place.
>

I'm surprised to hear you'd bother m'learned friends over something
like this. Surely that nice Mr. Trump has a spare cruise missile he'd
loan you?

Brian.

>

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Mark Rousell-3
In reply to this post by Brian-2
On 02/09/2018 23:08, Brian wrote:
> On 09/02/2018 05:02 PM, Mark Rousell wrote:
>> On 02/09/2018 21:51, Brian wrote:
>>> For the record, what happened with me is that I posted to one of the
>>> lists (I think it was the wishlist, but I'm not certain) and Avas sent
>>> me an e-mail acknowledging my e-mail
>> That's interesting. So it's not just this list.
>>
> I checked. It was definitely the wishlist.

Thanks.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Daniel-2
In reply to this post by Mark Rousell-3
Mark Rousell wrote on 3/09/2018 12:05 AM:

> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
> successfully).
>
> I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the mailbox?
>
> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
> from the list.
>
> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>
I don't do the list, I do NNTP instead, but I thought there were
instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail explaining how to
un-subscribe from the lists.

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

WaltS48-9
On 9/3/18 4:49 AM, Daniel wrote:

> Mark Rousell wrote on 3/09/2018 12:05 AM:
>> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
>> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the [hidden email]
>> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
>> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do this
>> successfully).
>>
>> I've tried to contact the list owner via [hidden email]
>> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the
>> mailbox?
>>
>> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed members
>> from the list.
>>
>> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris Ilias in
>> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>>
> I don't do the list, I do NNTP instead, but I thought there were
> instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail explaining how to
> un-subscribe from the lists.
>

There should be, but they should have also bookmarked the web page where
they signed up.

I'm subscribed to four Mozilla mailing lists. Each one has a "member
options login page" where you can enter your email address and password,
click the Unsubscribe button and, "By clicking on the Unsubscribe
button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you. This message will
have a link that you should click on to complete the removal process
(you can also confirm by email; see the instructions in the confirmation
message)."

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Re: Is anyone watching the general-owner mailbox (and has anyone else received email from Avas Flowers)?

Brian-2
On 09/03/2018 10:04 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 9/3/18 4:49 AM, Daniel wrote:
>> Mark Rousell wrote on 3/09/2018 12:05 AM:
>>> I've been receiving emails from a company called Avas Flowers who, it
>>> would seem, cannot remove themselves from the
>>> [hidden email]
>>> list. Has anyone else received emails from them? (I told them how to
>>> unsubscribe themselves but they tell me that they were unable to do
>>> this
>>> successfully).
>>>
>>> I've tried to contact the list owner via
>>> [hidden email]
>>> but have received no response. Who is supposed to be watching the
>>> mailbox?
>>>
>>> Someone somewhere must be able to remove incorrectly subscribed
>>> members
>>> from the list.
>>>
>>> Although this list/group is not moderated, I have emailed Chris
>>> Ilias in
>>> case he knows who should be tending the general-owner mailbox.
>>>
>> I don't do the list, I do NNTP instead, but I thought there were
>> instructions at the bottom of each list e-mail explaining how to
>> un-subscribe from the lists.
>>
>
> There should be, but they should have also bookmarked the web page
> where they signed up.
>

In the exchanges I had with Avas Flowers, they were adamant that they
did NOT sign up for the lists, they just suddenly began receiving the
posts.

> I'm subscribed to four Mozilla mailing lists. Each one has a "member
> options login page" where you can enter your email address and
> password, click the Unsubscribe button and, "By clicking on the
> Unsubscribe button, a confirmation message will be emailed to you.
> This message will have a link that you should click on to complete the
> removal process (you can also confirm by email; see the instructions
> in the confirmation message)."
>

Apparently this didn't work (at least, I told them to try it). I
suspect Mark may have got the answer, that someone is/was forwarding
them list messages maliciously. Somebody else will have to help them
if so, they got quite agitated with me when I told them I had no power
to remove them from the list, and I'm afraid I've dumped their address
into my 'nuke on sight' address book.

Brian.

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