Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

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Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Sailfish-2
REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/

[excerpt quote="
The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
" /]

It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
to come in Fx 16.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

WaltS-3
On 09/03/2012 02:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>
> [excerpt quote="
> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
> " /]
>
> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
> to come in Fx 16.
>

That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5 weeks
when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079

Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not show
this warning again", so you can disable it.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319

I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still find
it a PITA.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 9/3/2012
11:47 AM:

> On 09/03/2012 02:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>>
>> [excerpt quote="
>> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
>> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
>> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
>> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
>> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
>> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
>> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
>> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
>> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
>> " /]
>>
>> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
>> to come in Fx 16.
>>
>
> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5 weeks
> when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>
> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not show
> this warning again", so you can disable it.
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>
> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still find
> it a PITA.
>

Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20 or so
tabs open.

Dunno.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

»Q«
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
Sailfish <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 9/3/2012
> 11:47 AM:

> > That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
> > weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
> >
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
> >
> > Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
> > show this warning again", so you can disable it.
> >
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
> >
> > I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
> > find it a PITA.
>
> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20 or
> so tabs open.
>
> Dunno.

I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to close
the rest of the haystack.

For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big annoyance to
have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.  

I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I suspect
very few people use "close other tabs".
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

PhillipJones-2
»Q« wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
> Sailfish<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 9/3/2012
>> 11:47 AM:
>
>>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
>>> weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>>
>>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
>>> show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>>
>>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
>>> find it a PITA.
>>
>> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20 or
>> so tabs open.
>>
>> Dunno.
>
> I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to close
> the rest of the haystack.
>
> For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big annoyance to
> have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
>
> I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I suspect
> very few people use "close other tabs".

I use windows only avoid tabs like the Bubonic Plague any way. I I don't
have to worry about such things.

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http://www.phillipmjones.net    mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 9/3/2012 1:47 PM, WaltS wrote:

> On 09/03/2012 02:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>>
>> [excerpt quote="
>> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
>> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
>> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
>> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
>> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
>> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
>> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
>> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
>> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
>> " /]
>>
>> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
>> to come in Fx 16.
>>
>
> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5 weeks
> when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>
> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not show
> this warning again", so you can disable it.
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>
> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still find
> it a PITA.
>
That's one I probably will never notice.  Didn't it always warn about
closing other tabs?

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
> Sailfish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on 9/3/2012
>> 11:47 AM:
>
>>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
>>> weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>>
>>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
>>> show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>>
>>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
>>> find it a PITA.
>>
>> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20 or
>> so tabs open.
>>
>> Dunno.
>
> I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to close
> the rest of the haystack.
>
> For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big annoyance to
> have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
>
> I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I suspect
> very few people use "close other tabs".
>
I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many open I
can't close them one at a time quite easily.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 09/03/2012 04:38 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 9/3/2012 1:47 PM, WaltS wrote:
>> On 09/03/2012 02:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote="
>>> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
>>> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
>>> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
>>> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
>>> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
>>> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
>>> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
>>> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
>>> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
>>> " /]
>>>
>>> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
>>> to come in Fx 16.
>>>
>>
>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5 weeks
>> when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>
>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not show
>> this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>
>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still find
>> it a PITA.
>>
> That's one I probably will never notice.  Didn't it always warn about
> closing other tabs?
>

In Firefox 15.0 with, "Warn me when closing multiple tabs" checked, it
will warn the user. I'm not sure if that is set by default.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/closetabswarning1.png/

Note you can disable it from the warning.

Starting in Firefox 16.0 it will warn the user by default, with or
without, "Warn me when closing multiple tabs" checked, and can not be
disabled.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/closetabswarning2.png/

You can test it yourself, or not.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:38:43 -0500
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/3/2012 1:47 PM, WaltS wrote:

> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
> >
> > Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
> > show this warning again", so you can disable it.
> >
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
> >
> > I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
> > find it a PITA.
>
> That's one I probably will never notice.  Didn't it always warn about
> closing other tabs?

The warning was always on the default.  What's been removed is the
option to not be warned again.  And again and again and again and again.
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
> > Sailfish <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
> >> 9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
> >
> >>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
> >>> weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
> >>>
> >>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
> >>>
> >>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
> >>> show this warning again", so you can disable it.
> >>>
> >>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
> >>>
> >>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
> >>> find it a PITA.
> >>
> >> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20
> >> or so tabs open.
> >>
> >> Dunno.
> >
> > I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to
> > close the rest of the haystack.
> >
> > For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big annoyance
> > to have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
> >
> > I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I suspect
> > very few people use "close other tabs".
> >
> I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many open
> I can't close them one at a time quite easily.

As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago, typical
people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just doubt many people
have discovered the "close other tabs" feature, because it's in a
context menu.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Ron Hunter
On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
>>> Sailfish <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>>> 9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
>>>
>>>>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
>>>>> weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>>>>
>>>>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
>>>>> show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I still
>>>>> find it a PITA.
>>>>
>>>> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20
>>>> or so tabs open.
>>>>
>>>> Dunno.
>>>
>>> I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to
>>> close the rest of the haystack.
>>>
>>> For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big annoyance
>>> to have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
>>>
>>> I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I suspect
>>> very few people use "close other tabs".
>>>
>> I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many open
>> I can't close them one at a time quite easily.
>
> As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago, typical
> people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just doubt many people
> have discovered the "close other tabs" feature, because it's in a
> context menu.
>
I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less tabs
around, so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
tab addicts.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

RAV-2
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 9/3/2012 2:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>
> [excerpt quote="
> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
> " /]
>
> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
> to come in Fx 16.
>

Will they be adding incremental GC to Thunderbird 16?  I hope so ... I
don't notice jerkiness in Firefox, but definitely do every few seconds
or so while typing a message in Thunderbird.  I'll be typing along, then
it "freezes" while I continue to type another few words, then they
suddenly spill out.  At least it doesn't lose them but buffers them up.
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

WaltS-3
On 09/04/2012 08:42 AM, Rav wrote:

> On 9/3/2012 2:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>>
>> [excerpt quote="
>> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
>> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
>> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
>> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
>> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
>> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
>> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
>> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
>> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
>> " /]
>>
>> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
>> to come in Fx 16.
>>
>
> Will they be adding incremental GC to Thunderbird 16?  I hope so ... I
> don't notice jerkiness in Firefox, but definitely do every few seconds
> or so while typing a message in Thunderbird.  I'll be typing along, then
> it "freezes" while I continue to type another few words, then they
> suddenly spill out.  At least it doesn't lose them but buffers them up.

Yes, it is in here.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by RAV-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Rav graced us with on 9/4/2012 5:42 AM:

> On 9/3/2012 2:23 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> REF: https://blog.mozilla.org/javascript/
>>
>> [excerpt quote="
>> The basic purpose of the garbage collector is to collect memory that
>> JavaScript programs are no longer using. The space that is reclaimed can
>> then be reused for new JavaScript objects. Garbage collections usually
>> happen every five seconds or so. Prior to incremental GC landing,
>> Firefox was unable to do anything else during a collection: it couldn’t
>> respond to mouse clicks or draw animations or run JavaScript code. Most
>> collections were quick, but some took hundreds of milliseconds. This
>> downtime can cause a jerky, frustrating user experience. (On Macs, it
>> causes the dreaded spinning beachball.)
>> " /]
>>
>> It appears that Mozilla isn't stopping with Add-on garbage cleanup, more
>> to come in Fx 16.
>
> Will they be adding incremental GC to Thunderbird 16?  I hope so ... I
> don't notice jerkiness in Firefox, but definitely do every few seconds
> or so while typing a message in Thunderbird.  I'll be typing along, then
> it "freezes" while I continue to type another few words, then they
> suddenly spill out.  At least it doesn't lose them but buffers them up.

I can't say for certain but if the GC is located in the toolkit code, it
would seem likely that TB will benefit from the changes, as well.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:26:54 -0500
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:
> > On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
> > Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:  
> >>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
> >>> Sailfish <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>  
> >>>> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
> >>>> 9/3/2012 11:47 AM:  
> >>>  
> >>>>> That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
> >>>>> weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
> >>>>> show this warning again", so you can disable it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I
> >>>>> still find it a PITA.  
> >>>>
> >>>> Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20
> >>>> or so tabs open.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dunno.  
> >>>
> >>> I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to
> >>> close the rest of the haystack.
> >>>
> >>> For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big
> >>> annoyance to have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
> >>>
> >>> I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I
> >>> suspect very few people use "close other tabs".
> >>>  
> >> I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many
> >> open I can't close them one at a time quite easily.  
> >
> > As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago, typical
> > people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just doubt many people
> > have discovered the "close other tabs" feature, because it's in a
> > context menu.
>
> I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less tabs
> around,

The data clearly showed that the majority of Firefox users have more
than ten tabs open at some point during their week.  They are the
ones who might have need of the "close other tabs" feature;  people
who *always* have more than ten aren't the ones who want to close
tabs, with or without warnings.

> so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
> tab addicts

The people you consider "tab addicts" are just normal users.  And of
course this shouldn't be a "major issue" for anybody, just an annoyance.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

clay-14
On 09/04/2012 4:03 PM, »Q« wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:26:54 -0500
> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>>  On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>  >  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
>>  >  Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>  >>>  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
>>  >>>  Sailfish<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>  >>>
>>  >>>>  My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>  >>>>  9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
>>  >>>
>>  >>>>>  That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
>>  >>>>>  weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>  Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
>>  >>>>>  show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>  >>>>>
>>  >>>>>  I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I
>>  >>>>>  still find it a PITA.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>>  Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20
>>  >>>>  or so tabs open.
>>  >>>>
>>  >>>>  Dunno.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to
>>  >>>  close the rest of the haystack.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big
>>  >>>  annoyance to have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>  I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I
>>  >>>  suspect very few people use "close other tabs".
>>  >>>
>>  >>  I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many
>>  >>  open I can't close them one at a time quite easily.
>>  >
>>  >  As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago, typical
>>  >  people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just doubt many people
>>  >  have discovered the "close other tabs" feature, because it's in a
>>  >  context menu.
>>
>>  I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less tabs
>>  around,
>
> The data clearly showed that the majority of Firefox users have more
> than ten tabs open at some point during their week.  They are the
> ones who might have need of the "close other tabs" feature;  people
> who *always* have more than ten aren't the ones who want to close
> tabs, with or without warnings.
>
>>  so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
>>  tab addicts
>
> The people you consider "tab addicts" are just normal users.  And of
> course this shouldn't be a "major issue" for anybody, just an annoyance.
>

Those that haven't figured out the true value of tabbed browsing will
continue to scratch their heads...
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Ron Hunter
On 9/4/2012 6:29 PM, clay wrote:

> On 09/04/2012 4:03 PM, »Q« wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:26:54 -0500
>> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>>  On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>>  >  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
>>>  >  Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  >>  On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>>  >>>  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
>>>  >>>  Sailfish<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>>  My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with on
>>>  >>>>  9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>>>  That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of discontent in 5
>>>  >>>>>  weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released because of this bug fix.
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>  Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no, "Do not
>>>  >>>>>  show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>>  >>>>>
>>>  >>>>>  I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly, and I
>>>  >>>>>  still find it a PITA.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>>  Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often have 20
>>>  >>>>  or so tabs open.
>>>  >>>>
>>>  >>>>  Dunno.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>  I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and want to
>>>  >>>  close the rest of the haystack.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>  For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big
>>>  >>>  annoyance to have a warning dialog which can never be turned off.
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>>  I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I
>>>  >>>  suspect very few people use "close other tabs".
>>>  >>>
>>>  >>  I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so many
>>>  >>  open I can't close them one at a time quite easily.
>>>  >
>>>  >  As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago, typical
>>>  >  people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just doubt many people
>>>  >  have discovered the "close other tabs" feature, because it's in a
>>>  >  context menu.
>>>
>>>  I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less tabs
>>>  around,
>>
>> The data clearly showed that the majority of Firefox users have more
>> than ten tabs open at some point during their week.  They are the
>> ones who might have need of the "close other tabs" feature;  people
>> who *always* have more than ten aren't the ones who want to close
>> tabs, with or without warnings.
>>
>>>  so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
>>>  tab addicts
>>
>> The people you consider "tab addicts" are just normal users.  And of
>> course this shouldn't be a "major issue" for anybody, just an annoyance.
>>
>
> Those that haven't figured out the true value of tabbed browsing will
> continue to scratch their heads...
I use tabs all the time, however, when I am done with one, I close it.
Just as I close the browser when I am done with it.
When I eat breakfast, I put up my fork, rather than carrying it around
until time for lunch.

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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Was Greywolf
On 04/09/2012 9:14 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:
> On 9/4/2012 6:29 PM, clay wrote:
[...]
>>
>> Those that haven't figured out the true value of tabbed browsing will
>> continue to scratch their heads...
> I use tabs all the time, however, when I am done with one, I close it.
> Just as I close the browser when I am done with it.
> When I eat breakfast, I put up my fork, rather than carrying it around
> until time for lunch.
>

No, no, Ron you're supposed to put the fork in a nice little plastic
case and shove it in your shirt pocket, just in case you need it before
lunch! And next time you buy a fork, it will come with the plastic case
whether you want it or not. Because it will be made by Mozilla.

Heh heh.

--
Best,
Wolf K.
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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

»Q«
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:14:02 -0500
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9/4/2012 6:29 PM, clay wrote:
> > On 09/04/2012 4:03 PM, »Q« wrote:
> >> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:26:54 -0500
> >> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>
> >>>  On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:
> >>>  >  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
> >>>  >  Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>>  >
> >>>  >>  On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
> >>>  >>>  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
> >>>  >>>  Sailfish<[hidden email]>
> >>>  >>> wrote:
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>>>  My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with
> >>>  >>>> on 9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>>>>  That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of
> >>>  >>>>> discontent in 5 weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released
> >>>  >>>>> because of this bug fix.
> >>>  >>>>>
> >>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
> >>>  >>>>>
> >>>  >>>>>  Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no,
> >>>  >>>>> "Do not show this warning again", so you can disable it.
> >>>  >>>>>
> >>>  >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
> >>>  >>>>>
> >>>  >>>>>  I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly,
> >>>  >>>>> and I still find it a PITA.
> >>>  >>>>
> >>>  >>>>  Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often
> >>>  >>>> have 20 or so tabs open.
> >>>  >>>>
> >>>  >>>>  Dunno.
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>>  I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and
> >>>  >>> want to close the rest of the haystack.
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>>  For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big
> >>>  >>>  annoyance to have a warning dialog which can never be
> >>>  >>> turned off.
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>>  I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I
> >>>  >>>  suspect very few people use "close other tabs".
> >>>  >>>
> >>>  >>  I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so
> >>>  >> many open I can't close them one at a time quite easily.
> >>>  >
> >>>  >  As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago,
> >>>  > typical people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just
> >>>  > doubt many people have discovered the "close other tabs"
> >>>  > feature, because it's in a context menu.
> >>>
> >>>  I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less
> >>> tabs around,
> >>
> >> The data clearly showed that the majority of Firefox users have
> >> more than ten tabs open at some point during their week.  They are
> >> the ones who might have need of the "close other tabs" feature;
> >> people who *always* have more than ten aren't the ones who want to
> >> close tabs, with or without warnings.
> >>
> >>>  so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
> >>>  tab addicts
> >>
> >> The people you consider "tab addicts" are just normal users.  And
> >> of course this shouldn't be a "major issue" for anybody, just an
> >> annoyance.
> >
> > Those that haven't figured out the true value of tabbed browsing
> > will continue to scratch their heads...
>
> I use tabs all the time, however, when I am done with one, I close
> it. Just as I close the browser when I am done with it.
> When I eat breakfast, I put up my fork, rather than carrying it
> around until time for lunch.

Tabs don't require cleaning after use, and there's no need to carry
tabs around, so the fork analogy is pretty bad.  But I do appreciate
your determination to come up with some justification for the idea that
your way is more sensible than most people's.  ;)


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Re: Incremental GC in Firefox 16!

Ron Hunter
On 9/4/2012 8:52 PM, »Q« wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:14:02 -0500
> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/4/2012 6:29 PM, clay wrote:
>>> On 09/04/2012 4:03 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:26:54 -0500
>>>> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>   On 9/4/2012 12:07 AM, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>   >  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 15:40:18 -0500
>>>>>   >  Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >>  On 9/3/2012 2:31 PM, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>   >>>  On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 11:58:45 -0700
>>>>>   >>>  Sailfish<[hidden email]>
>>>>>   >>> wrote:
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>>  My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS graced us with
>>>>>   >>>> on 9/3/2012 11:47 AM:
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>>>  That is nice, but I expect a real outpouring of
>>>>>   >>>>> discontent in 5 weeks when Firefox 16.0 is released
>>>>>   >>>>> because of this bug fix.
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277079
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>  Note the "should always warn". It does, and there is no,
>>>>>   >>>>> "Do not show this warning again", so you can disable it.
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=772319
>>>>>   >>>>>
>>>>>   >>>>>  I've been annoyed by this since Firefox was a Nightly,
>>>>>   >>>>> and I still find it a PITA.
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>  Really? I've never used that feature, even though I often
>>>>>   >>>> have 20 or so tabs open.
>>>>>   >>>>
>>>>>   >>>>  Dunno.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>  I use it mostly when I find the needle in a haystack and
>>>>>   >>> want to close the rest of the haystack.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>  For those of us who use it frequently, it really is a big
>>>>>   >>>  annoyance to have a warning dialog which can never be
>>>>>   >>> turned off.
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>>  I *hope* there will be an outcry once 16 is released, but I
>>>>>   >>>  suspect very few people use "close other tabs".
>>>>>   >>>
>>>>>   >>  I suspect you are quite right about that.  I never have so
>>>>>   >> many open I can't close them one at a time quite easily.
>>>>>   >
>>>>>   >  As we saw in the data that was posted a month or so ago,
>>>>>   > typical people use a *lot* more tabs than you do.  I just
>>>>>   > doubt many people have discovered the "close other tabs"
>>>>>   > feature, because it's in a context menu.
>>>>>
>>>>>   I have used it, once or twice, but most users keep 10 or less
>>>>> tabs around,
>>>>
>>>> The data clearly showed that the majority of Firefox users have
>>>> more than ten tabs open at some point during their week.  They are
>>>> the ones who might have need of the "close other tabs" feature;
>>>> people who *always* have more than ten aren't the ones who want to
>>>> close tabs, with or without warnings.
>>>>
>>>>>   so it probably won't be a major issue for those us who aren't
>>>>>   tab addicts
>>>>
>>>> The people you consider "tab addicts" are just normal users.  And
>>>> of course this shouldn't be a "major issue" for anybody, just an
>>>> annoyance.
>>>
>>> Those that haven't figured out the true value of tabbed browsing
>>> will continue to scratch their heads...
>>
>> I use tabs all the time, however, when I am done with one, I close
>> it. Just as I close the browser when I am done with it.
>> When I eat breakfast, I put up my fork, rather than carrying it
>> around until time for lunch.
>
> Tabs don't require cleaning after use, and there's no need to carry
> tabs around, so the fork analogy is pretty bad.  But I do appreciate
> your determination to come up with some justification for the idea that
> your way is more sensible than most people's.  ;)
>
>
I feel that some users are using tabs in place of bookmarks.  That's
fine, I suppose, as long as those users realize that doing it that way
imposes a heavy load on RAM and processor cycles.
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