If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

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If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Sailfish-2
REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/

[excerpt quote="
Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important
for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
" /]

It's not just for the NSA anymore.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Jay Garcia
On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>
> [excerpt quote="
> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important
> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
> " /]
>
> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>

WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know where
you are but not who you are ... yet.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
On 4/21/2012 10:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>>
>> [excerpt quote="
>> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
>> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important
>> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
>> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
>> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
>> " /]
>>
>> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>>
>
> WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
> often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know where
> you are but not who you are ... yet.
>
Wi-fi is on on my phone all the time, however, on the iPhone you can
tell it not to join networks without your permission.  Also, wi-fi goes
idle about 20 seconds after going to 'sleep' mode, and when no wi-fi
requests take place for 20 seconds, UNLESS 3G cellular data is disabled,
in which case it never goes idle.
This means any time the phone is in 'sleep' mode, it is on 3G (or as ATT
calls NSPDA+) 4G.  I am sure that if NSA wants to know where I am, they
can figure it out somehow anyway.
And why do I care if they know where I am?

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/21/2012 10:24 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>
> [excerpt quote="
> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important
> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
> " /]
>
> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>
Also wi-fi is not needed for most current smartphones to report an
accurate location, it just takes a bit more time to get a good location
from the GPS chip.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/21/2012 10:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>>>
>>> [excerpt quote="
>>> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
>>> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important
>>> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
>>> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
>>> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
>>> " /]
>>>
>>> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>>>
>>
>> WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
>> often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know where
>> you are but not who you are ... yet.
>>
> Wi-fi is on on my phone all the time, however, on the iPhone you can
> tell it not to join networks without your permission.  Also, wi-fi goes
> idle about 20 seconds after going to 'sleep' mode, and when no wi-fi
> requests take place for 20 seconds, UNLESS 3G cellular data is disabled,
> in which case it never goes idle.
> This means any time the phone is in 'sleep' mode, it is on 3G (or as ATT
> calls NSPDA+) 4G.  I am sure that if NSA wants to know where I am, they
> can figure it out somehow anyway.
> And why do I care if they know where I am?
>
I don't know but I'm not sure this protects your phone from being
tracked, as long a WIFI is enabled.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
On 4/22/2012 12:51 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/21/2012 10:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>>>>
>>>> [excerpt quote="
>>>> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
>>>> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is
>>>> important
>>>> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
>>>> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
>>>> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
>>>> " /]
>>>>
>>>> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
>>> often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know where
>>> you are but not who you are ... yet.
>>>
>> Wi-fi is on on my phone all the time, however, on the iPhone you can
>> tell it not to join networks without your permission. Also, wi-fi goes
>> idle about 20 seconds after going to 'sleep' mode, and when no wi-fi
>> requests take place for 20 seconds, UNLESS 3G cellular data is
>> disabled, in which case it never goes idle.
>> This means any time the phone is in 'sleep' mode, it is on 3G (or as
>> ATT calls NSPDA+) 4G. I am sure that if NSA wants to know where I am,
>> they can figure it out somehow anyway.
>> And why do I care if they know where I am?
>>
> I don't know but I'm not sure this protects your phone from being
> tracked, as long a WIFI is enabled.
>
I have turned off the accumulation and transmission of data to Apple
from the phone, but ATT still seems to have a nightly transmission of
data after 11PM.  Sometimes that data is as large as 43megabytes!  I
don't know what it is, and can't find any recent information on the
internet about it.  I have an unlimited account, so it doesn't matter to
me, but it consumes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 200meg/month on my wife's
account.  One can't help but wonder just what is going to ATT, and why.
  I know that the phone periodically downloads a cell tower list, so
maybe that is part of it.  Last night, I turned off the 3G cellular data
before I went to bed, so I could check to see if that would either
prevent the data transmission, or at least force it through the wi-fi
connection.
It is essential for the functioning of any cell phone that the service's
computers know where the phone is, so in that sense we are all tracked.
  By tracking the GPS, that location data can be quite precise.  I am
not really concerned about being tracked as I know that the omnipresent
traffic cams already visually track my comings, and goings daily.  In an
urban setting, one is rarely out of view on one of these cameras, or
those maintained for security at various businesses.
There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Sailfish-2
Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/22/2012 12:51 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 4/21/2012 10:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>>>>>
>>>>> [excerpt quote="
>>>>> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
>>>>> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is
>>>>> important
>>>>> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
>>>>> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
>>>>> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
>>>>> " /]
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
>>>> often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know where
>>>> you are but not who you are ... yet.
>>>>
>>> Wi-fi is on on my phone all the time, however, on the iPhone you can
>>> tell it not to join networks without your permission. Also, wi-fi goes
>>> idle about 20 seconds after going to 'sleep' mode, and when no wi-fi
>>> requests take place for 20 seconds, UNLESS 3G cellular data is
>>> disabled, in which case it never goes idle.
>>> This means any time the phone is in 'sleep' mode, it is on 3G (or as
>>> ATT calls NSPDA+) 4G. I am sure that if NSA wants to know where I am,
>>> they can figure it out somehow anyway.
>>> And why do I care if they know where I am?
>>>
>> I don't know but I'm not sure this protects your phone from being
>> tracked, as long a WIFI is enabled.
>>
> I have turned off the accumulation and transmission of data to Apple
> from the phone, but ATT still seems to have a nightly transmission of
> data after 11PM.  Sometimes that data is as large as 43megabytes!  I
> don't know what it is, and can't find any recent information on the
> internet about it.  I have an unlimited account, so it doesn't matter to
> me, but it consumes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 200meg/month on my wife's
> account.  One can't help but wonder just what is going to ATT, and why.
>  I know that the phone periodically downloads a cell tower list, so
> maybe that is part of it.  Last night, I turned off the 3G cellular data
> before I went to bed, so I could check to see if that would either
> prevent the data transmission, or at least force it through the wi-fi
> connection.
> It is essential for the functioning of any cell phone that the service's
> computers know where the phone is, so in that sense we are all tracked.
>  By tracking the GPS, that location data can be quite precise.  I am not
> really concerned about being tracked as I know that the omnipresent
> traffic cams already visually track my comings, and goings daily.  In an
> urban setting, one is rarely out of view on one of these cameras, or
> those maintained for security at various businesses.
> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>
43MBs?! Sounds like they are using your phone for offline storage :)

--
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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

goodwin-8
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 04/22/2012 12:15 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.

Always been true but I, for one, never really thought/think about that.
  Lived 18 yrs in NYC - everyone just seemed to mind there own business
- thats the only sort of privacy available in any apartment complex
without your own elevator.  Same here in L.A.
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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
On 4/22/2012 3:09 PM, goodwin wrote:
> On 04/22/2012 12:15 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>
> Always been true but I, for one, never really thought/think about that.
> Lived 18 yrs in NYC - everyone just seemed to mind there own business -
> thats the only sort of privacy available in any apartment complex
> without your own elevator. Same here in L.A.

The only way to get privacy these days is to live as far from
civilization as possible.  Drive 40 miles into a small town for supplies
once a month, and fish, hunt, and trap for food.  Not how I want to live.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/22/2012 9:31 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/22/2012 12:51 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>> On 4/21/2012 10:49 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 21.04.2012 10:24, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>
>>>>>> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [excerpt quote="
>>>>>> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones
>>>>>> chastise us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is
>>>>>> important
>>>>>> for making location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't
>>>>>> realize that, using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device
>>>>>> with an active Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
>>>>>> " /]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not just for the NSA anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WiFi here is alwasy OFF on my phone until needed, which is not very
>>>>> often. Most people leave it ON/Enabled. The tracking systems know
>>>>> where
>>>>> you are but not who you are ... yet.
>>>>>
>>>> Wi-fi is on on my phone all the time, however, on the iPhone you can
>>>> tell it not to join networks without your permission. Also, wi-fi goes
>>>> idle about 20 seconds after going to 'sleep' mode, and when no wi-fi
>>>> requests take place for 20 seconds, UNLESS 3G cellular data is
>>>> disabled, in which case it never goes idle.
>>>> This means any time the phone is in 'sleep' mode, it is on 3G (or as
>>>> ATT calls NSPDA+) 4G. I am sure that if NSA wants to know where I am,
>>>> they can figure it out somehow anyway.
>>>> And why do I care if they know where I am?
>>>>
>>> I don't know but I'm not sure this protects your phone from being
>>> tracked, as long a WIFI is enabled.
>>>
>> I have turned off the accumulation and transmission of data to Apple
>> from the phone, but ATT still seems to have a nightly transmission of
>> data after 11PM. Sometimes that data is as large as 43megabytes! I
>> don't know what it is, and can't find any recent information on the
>> internet about it. I have an unlimited account, so it doesn't matter
>> to me, but it consumes about 1/3 to 1/2 of the 200meg/month on my
>> wife's account. One can't help but wonder just what is going to ATT,
>> and why. I know that the phone periodically downloads a cell tower
>> list, so maybe that is part of it. Last night, I turned off the 3G
>> cellular data before I went to bed, so I could check to see if that
>> would either prevent the data transmission, or at least force it
>> through the wi-fi connection.
>> It is essential for the functioning of any cell phone that the
>> service's computers know where the phone is, so in that sense we are
>> all tracked. By tracking the GPS, that location data can be quite
>> precise. I am not really concerned about being tracked as I know that
>> the omnipresent traffic cams already visually track my comings, and
>> goings daily. In an urban setting, one is rarely out of view on one of
>> these cameras, or those maintained for security at various businesses.
>> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>>
> 43MBs?! Sounds like they are using your phone for offline storage :)
>
I don't know WHAT the time is being used for.  Seems people who don't
have unlimited data accounts would be pretty upset about this kind of
thing.  Yet searches on Google reveal NOTHING less than a year old.
Strange.  As long as it doesn't force my wife's data usage over 200meg,
I don't really care about it much, but it seems someone would be making
a fuss about it.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Desiree-11
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2

"Sailfish" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...

> REF: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27784/
>
> [excerpt quote="
> Most of us leave Wi-Fi on by default, in part because our phones chastise
> us when we don't. (Triangulation by Wi-Fi hotspots is important for making
> location services more accurate.) But you probably didn't realize that,
> using proprietary new "nodes" from Navizon, any device with an active
> Wi-Fi radio can be seen by a system like Navizon's.
> " /]
>
> It's not just for the NSA anymore.

Yeah, we had a thread going on this at dslreports security forum when the
site went down.  This sort of blatant intrusion into my privacy (which is
ever shrinking) is why I don't have a cell phone and hope to never have one.
As several in the thread pointed out, there is no need for implanting some
sort of futuristic tracker under people's skins, etc because the cell phone
has become the "mark of the beast".

>
> --
> Sailfish - Netscape/Mozilla Champion
> Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
> Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://www.projectit.com/ 


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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 22.04.2012 19:57, Ron Hunter wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On 4/22/2012 3:09 PM, goodwin wrote:
>> On 04/22/2012 12:15 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>>
>> Always been true but I, for one, never really thought/think about that.
>> Lived 18 yrs in NYC - everyone just seemed to mind there own business -
>> thats the only sort of privacy available in any apartment complex
>> without your own elevator. Same here in L.A.
>
> The only way to get privacy these days is to live as far from
> civilization as possible.  Drive 40 miles into a small town for supplies
> once a month, and fish, hunt, and trap for food.  Not how I want to live.
>

Nah, you can be tracked via satellite, sorry bud.

--
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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Ron Hunter
On 4/22/2012 10:26 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 22.04.2012 19:57, Ron Hunter wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 4/22/2012 3:09 PM, goodwin wrote:
>>> On 04/22/2012 12:15 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>>>
>>> Always been true but I, for one, never really thought/think about that.
>>> Lived 18 yrs in NYC - everyone just seemed to mind there own business -
>>> thats the only sort of privacy available in any apartment complex
>>> without your own elevator. Same here in L.A.
>>
>> The only way to get privacy these days is to live as far from
>> civilization as possible.  Drive 40 miles into a small town for supplies
>> once a month, and fish, hunt, and trap for food.  Not how I want to live.
>>
>
> Nah, you can be tracked via satellite, sorry bud.
>
In order to use satellite tracking, they would have to want you really
badly!
Best way to stay off the grid is to use only cash.  A fake ID would help
as well.

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Re: If You Have a Smart Phone, Anyone Can Now Track Your Every Move

Tarkus-3
On 4/23/2012 12:56 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/22/2012 10:26 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 22.04.2012 19:57, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> On 4/22/2012 3:09 PM, goodwin wrote:
>>>> On 04/22/2012 12:15 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There is little privacy in the urban setting these days.
>>>>
>>>> Always been true but I, for one, never really thought/think about that.
>>>> Lived 18 yrs in NYC - everyone just seemed to mind there own business -
>>>> thats the only sort of privacy available in any apartment complex
>>>> without your own elevator. Same here in L.A.
>>>
>>> The only way to get privacy these days is to live as far from
>>> civilization as possible.  Drive 40 miles into a small town for supplies
>>> once a month, and fish, hunt, and trap for food.  Not how I want to
>>> live.
>>
>> Nah, you can be tracked via satellite, sorry bud.
>>
> In order to use satellite tracking, they would have to want you really
> badly!
> Best way to stay off the grid is to use only cash.  A fake ID would help
> as well.

I hear tin-foil hats work wonders too.
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