HTML5 & XForms

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HTML5 & XForms

eCubeH
There have been a number of articles coming up on how XHTML 2.0 is 'dead' and HTML5 is the way forward, etc.

What are the implications for XForms, especially XForms plugin in Firefox?
How will this impact apps that have been built in XForms, esply with regard to future conformity etc.

I am asking as someone unfamiliar with HTML5, WHATWG, Web Forms 2.0 etc!
_______________________________________________________________

 http://www.w3.org/News/2009

XHTML 2 Working Group Expected to Stop Work End of 2009, W3C to Increase Resources on HTML 5

2009-07-02: Today the Director announces that when the XHTML 2 Working Group charter expires as scheduled at the end of 2009, the charter will not be renewed. By doing so, and by increasing resources in the HTML Working Group, W3C hopes to accelerate the progress of HTML 5 and clarify W3C's position regarding the future of HTML. A FAQ answers questions about the future of deliverables of the XHTML 2 Working Group, and the status of various discussions related to HTML. Learn more about the HTML Activity. (Permalink)
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Re: HTML5 & XForms

Dion Sole
On Jul 9, 3:37 pm, eCubeH <[hidden email]> wrote:
> There have been a number of articles coming up on how XHTML 2.0 is 'dead' and
> HTML5 is the way forward, etc.
>
> What are the implications for XForms, especially XForms plugin in Firefox?
> How will this impact apps that have been built in XForms, esply with regard
> to future conformity etc.
>
> I am asking as someone unfamiliar with HTML5, WHATWG, Web Forms 2.0 etc!
XForms will still be around, since the W3C are still working on it in
the Forms WG. And HTML5 can include XML if it's sent as an XML mime-
type (application/xhtml+xml), so XForms will still be able to be
embedded in that.

As to web forms and XForms, I don't think xforms will ever take over
on the general web. It's just too complex for your average comment box
or forum posting form. It'll still be popular in the places it already
is, like corporate intranets, various web services etc.
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Re: HTML5 & XForms

dr.cw.ray
Could someone tell me in plain English what all this means? I've
invested over four years in these technologies, thinking that I was
getting ahead of the game, and rather feel like I've been left behind
instead.

I read the FAQs http://www.w3.org/2009/06/xhtml-faq.html  and some of
the links from there, but it's hard to follow.

It seems that they're saying that although the working group is
dissolving, xhtml will still have support within
html5 through xml serialization -- ?? am I enterpreting that right ?
because I don't know what the means.

They also talk about html5 being incompatible at present with
decentralized extensibility, I don't know what that means but it seems
associated with namespaces. Does this mean I can't have my own
namespaces, as I do now, in html5 appications?

It's all a bit strange to me, since html is essentially an xml based
language, and xhtml seems the natural and logical evolution. And xhtml
is actually easier, not harder, than html, so far as I'm concerned,
because it was from the beginning a more structured and well-defined
approach to mark-up.

Xforms, on the other hand, is just too powerful, because it can do so
much more than just make checkboxes and radio buttons, and though it
may not become mainstream for the average web developer, it will
certainly underlie all future technology--such as drop and drag web
editors or other forms makers where the user doesn't have to worry
about the underlying technology.  But unless html5 follows
conventional xml rules, it seems a strange fit.




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Re: HTML5 & XForms

Aaron Reed
I would suggest that someone start this thread with the W3C XForms
people.  They've been following the evolution of html5, web forms, etc.
longer than anyone else.

--Aaron

dr.cw.ray wrote:

> Could someone tell me in plain English what all this means? I've
> invested over four years in these technologies, thinking that I was
> getting ahead of the game, and rather feel like I've been left behind
> instead.
>
> I read the FAQs http://www.w3.org/2009/06/xhtml-faq.html  and some of
> the links from there, but it's hard to follow.
>
> It seems that they're saying that although the working group is
> dissolving, xhtml will still have support within
> html5 through xml serialization -- ?? am I enterpreting that right ?
> because I don't know what the means.
>
> They also talk about html5 being incompatible at present with
> decentralized extensibility, I don't know what that means but it seems
> associated with namespaces. Does this mean I can't have my own
> namespaces, as I do now, in html5 appications?
>
> It's all a bit strange to me, since html is essentially an xml based
> language, and xhtml seems the natural and logical evolution. And xhtml
> is actually easier, not harder, than html, so far as I'm concerned,
> because it was from the beginning a more structured and well-defined
> approach to mark-up.
>
> Xforms, on the other hand, is just too powerful, because it can do so
> much more than just make checkboxes and radio buttons, and though it
> may not become mainstream for the average web developer, it will
> certainly underlie all future technology--such as drop and drag web
> editors or other forms makers where the user doesn't have to worry
> about the underlying technology.  But unless html5 follows
> conventional xml rules, it seems a strange fit.
>
>
>
>
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Re: HTML5 & XForms

dr.cw.ray
I was in bit of a panic. Sorry, guys, though I use web technology for
my profession, web development is not my profession, so it's hard to
keep up with it all.

After reading numerous articles, it seems that hml5 is the way to go,
as xhtml2 was not backwards compatible with xhtml1.1, while it appears
that html 5 with it's xml serialization will respect most (if not
all?) of xforms1.1.

At any rate, for xhtml1.1 developers,  it seems at worst a minor bump,
and at best a better way forward for all -- just my interpretation
without getting into the details.
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Re: HTML5 & XForms

Robert C. Leif
On Jul 10, 10:10 pm, "dr.cw.ray" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was in bit of a panic. Sorry, guys, though I use web technology for
> my profession, web development is not my profession, so it's hard to
> keep up with it all.
>
> After reading numerous articles, it seems that hml5 is the way to go,
> as xhtml2 was not backwards compatible with xhtml1.1, while it appears
> that html 5 with it's xml serialization will respect most (if not
> all?) of xforms1.1.
>
> At any rate, for xhtml1.1 developers,  it seems at worst a minor bump,
> and at best a better way forward for all -- just my interpretation
> without getting into the details.

Firstly,
The HTML 5 web page (http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-html5-20090423/) is
named: HTML 5
A vocabulary and associated APIs for HTML and XHTML, W3C Working Draft
23 April 2009
Therefore HTML 5 also includes XHTML 5.

      "1.5.3 Relationship to XHTML2 and XForms

       This section is non-normative.

       XHTML2 defines a new vocabulary with features for hyperlinks,
multimedia content, annotating document edits, rich metadata,
declarative interactive forms, and describing the semantics of human
literary works such as poems     and scientific papers. [XHTML2]

       XForms similarly defines a new vocabulary with features for
complex data entry, such as tax forms or insurance forms.

       However, XHTML2 and XForms lack features to express the
semantics of many of the non-document types of content often seen on
the Web. For instance, they are not well-suited for marking up forum
sites, auction sites, search engines, online shops, mapping
applications, e-mail applications, word processors, real-time strategy
games, and the like.

       This specification aims to extend HTML so that it is also
suitable in these contexts.

       XHTML2, XForms, and this specification all use different
namespaces and therefore can all be implemented in the same XML
processor."

The above indicates that the XForm specification (schema) should be
shrunk. The parts that are expressed in HTML 5 should be removed. HTML
5 in the XHTML 5 embodiment should be the future nominative
environment for XForms. An example of how to import the new XForms
into an XHTML 5 document should be created. The present XForms schema
for modular XHTML should be modified to be consistent with the forms
part of XHTML 5. This would permit XForms code that works with a
presently used version of XHTML to port to XHTML 5. Although the
elimination of some of the work on modular XHTML might be
disappointing,  it has the virtue of eventually reducing the number of
versions of XHTML. W3C has excelled at creating standards. The problem
is that it has created too many that overlap.

Bob Leif.


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