Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
7:50 AM:

> Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to
>>>>>>>>>>>> look.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF
>>>>>>>>>>> 12.0
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could
>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>>> future
>>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the
>>>>>> tab)
>>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>>
>>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>>> favicon?
>>>>>
>>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only
>>>> one
>>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>>
>>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>>
>> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
>> tab, no?
>>
>> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
>> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
>> left to the tab, if at all.
>>
>
> But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
> Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the tab
> as well.
>
> One on, All on!!
>
I disagree. The site identification icon should only occur in one place
so users always know where it's located. Plus, leaving the favicons on
the tab still provides the favicon feature as well.

> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>
As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
bar. No big deal, imo.

--
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/28/2012
10:21 AM:
> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.  The
>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>
> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
> again, or may not.
>
Either way, it's a nit from my perspective. While I prefer killing the
favicon on the URLbar from a site-ID consistency POV and see it as a
move in a better direction, I wasn't unhappy with it being there to
begin with.

[snip /]
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

WaltS-3
On 04/28/2012 03:31 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/28/2012
> 10:21 AM:
>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.  The
>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>
>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>> Firefox again, or may not.
>>
> Either way, it's a nit from my perspective. While I prefer killing the
> favicon on the URLbar from a site-ID consistency POV and see it as a
> move in a better direction, I wasn't unhappy with it being there to
> begin with.
>

Lot of things complained about are nits from my perspective. Most of it
I don't even notice unless someone complains, or I do notice in Nightly
or Daily, and can't wait to see the hollering.

I also think that most of the development focus is going toward mobile
and B2G, and we are seeing that bleed into the desktop. I might be wrong.

--
Thunderbird (15.0a1) Daily | openSUSE 12.1 | KDE 4.7.2
Some people just have to pass on the right, when you are supposed to
pass on the left. Depending on the country.


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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/28/2012
12:48 PM:

> On 04/28/2012 03:31 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what WLS graced us with on 4/28/2012
>> 10:21 AM:
>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.  The
>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>>> Firefox again, or may not.
>>>
>> Either way, it's a nit from my perspective. While I prefer killing the
>> favicon on the URLbar from a site-ID consistency POV and see it as a
>> move in a better direction, I wasn't unhappy with it being there to
>> begin with.
>>
> Lot of things complained about are nits from my perspective. Most of it
> I don't even notice unless someone complains, or I do notice in Nightly
> or Daily, and can't wait to see the hollering.
>
Agreed. Oh, the OUTRAGE! :)

> I also think that most of the development focus is going toward mobile
> and B2G, and we are seeing that bleed into the desktop. I might be wrong.
>
Ditto.

--
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>
> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
> again, or may not.
>
> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.

Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use it
to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a bit
offensive.  Give them the win on this one, and we all lose.  This kind
of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable feature to
be dropped because it can be abused, or misused.  Sad.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 2:24 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
> 7:50 AM:
>> Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF
>>>>>>>>>>>> 12.0
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course,
>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to
>>>>>>>>> Bugzilla to
>>>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox
>>>>>>>> way;
>>>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could
>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the
>>>>>>> tab)
>>>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe
>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>>>> favicon?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when
>>>>> only one
>>>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including
>>>>> power
>>>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>>>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>>>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any
>>>>> number of
>>>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>>>
>>>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>>>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>>>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>>>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>>>
>>> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
>>> tab, no?
>>>
>>> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
>>> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
>>> left to the tab, if at all.
>>>
>>
>> But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
>> Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the
>> tab as well.
>>
>> One on, All on!!
>>
> I disagree. The site identification icon should only occur in one place
> so users always know where it's located. Plus, leaving the favicons on
> the tab still provides the favicon feature as well.
>
>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>
> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
> bar. No big deal, imo.
>
I would suggest a Testpilot survey on this issue.  I would bet a LOT of
users don't use tabs at all, and are smart enough to turn them off if
only one is open.  Wasted line on the screen.


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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 2:35 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 2:24 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
>> 7:50 AM:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to
>>>>>>>>>> Bugzilla to
>>>>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox
>>>>>>>>> way;
>>>>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could
>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the
>>>>>>>> tab)
>>>>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a
>>>>>>> dozen
>>>>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe
>>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>>>>> favicon?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>>>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>>>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when
>>>>>> only one
>>>>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including
>>>>>> power
>>>>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>>>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>>>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any
>>>>>> number of
>>>>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>>>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>>>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>>>>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>>>>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>>>>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>>>>
>>>> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
>>>> tab, no?
>>>>
>>>> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
>>>> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
>>>> left to the tab, if at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
>>> Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the
>>> tab as well.
>>>
>>> One on, All on!!
>>>
>> I disagree. The site identification icon should only occur in one place
>> so users always know where it's located. Plus, leaving the favicons on
>> the tab still provides the favicon feature as well.
>>
>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>
>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
>> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
>> bar. No big deal, imo.
>>
> I would suggest a Testpilot survey on this issue.  I would bet a LOT of
> users don't use tabs at all, and are smart enough to turn them off if
> only one is open.  Wasted line on the screen.
>

What do you prefer:

[ ] Tab bar to queue up interesting web pages in the background and
minimize wasted desktop space with a bunch of open windows

[ ] No tab bar to save a few pixels of vertical pixels but makes your
desktop look like a rat's nest

[ ] No tab bar and never open more than one web site at a time thus gain
a few extra vertical pixels and a clean desktop but having to wait for
loads of every site of interest


Methinks the results would be overwhelmingly the first option but you
could prove me wrong.

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 2:35 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 2:24 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
>> 7:50 AM:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to
>>>>>>>>>> Bugzilla to
>>>>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox
>>>>>>>>> way;
>>>>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could
>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the
>>>>>>>> tab)
>>>>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a
>>>>>>> dozen
>>>>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe
>>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>>>>> favicon?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>>>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>>>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when
>>>>>> only one
>>>>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including
>>>>>> power
>>>>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>>>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or
>>>>>> learning
>>>>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>>>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any
>>>>>> number of
>>>>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>>>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>>>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>>>>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>>>>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>>>>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>>>>
>>>> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
>>>> tab, no?
>>>>
>>>> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
>>>> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
>>>> left to the tab, if at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
>>> Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the
>>> tab as well.
>>>
>>> One on, All on!!
>>>
>> I disagree. The site identification icon should only occur in one place
>> so users always know where it's located. Plus, leaving the favicons on
>> the tab still provides the favicon feature as well.
>>
>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>
>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
>> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
>> bar. No big deal, imo.
>>
> I would suggest a Testpilot survey on this issue.  I would bet a LOT of
> users don't use tabs at all, and are smart enough to turn them off if
> only one is open.  Wasted line on the screen.
>
What do you prefer:

[ ] Tab bar to queue up interesting web pages in the background and
minimize wasted desktop space with a bunch of open windows

[ ] No tab bar to save a few pixels of vertical pixels but makes your
desktop look like a rat's nest

[ ] No tab bar and never open more than one web site at a time thus gain
a few extra vertical pixels and a clean desktop but having to wait for
loads of every site of interest

Survey SAYS!?

Methinks the results would be overwhelmingly the first option but you
could prove me wrong.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 2:31 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>
>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>> again, or may not.
>>
>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>
> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use it
> to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a bit
> offensive.  Give them the win on this one, and we all lose.  This kind
> of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable feature to
> be dropped because it can be abused, or misused.  Sad.
>
And so the outrageous outrage begins.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 2:31 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>
>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>> again, or may not.
>>
>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>
> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use it
> to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a bit
> offensive.  Give them the win on this one, and we all lose.  This kind
> of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable feature to
> be dropped because it can be abused, or misused.  Sad.
>
btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam and
not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content consumed on
the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their favicon
is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.

just sayin'

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/12 12:24 PM, Sailfish wrote [in part]:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
> 7:50 AM [also in part]:
>
>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>
> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
> bar. No big deal, imo.
>

On my monitor, opening the tab bar removes more than 5% of the view port
(the content portion of the Web page I am viewing).  Thus, I set the
preference to hide the tab bar when only one tab is open.

--

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<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what David E. Ross graced us with on
4/28/2012 5:31 PM:

> On 4/28/12 12:24 PM, Sailfish wrote [in part]:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
>> 7:50 AM [also in part]:
>>
>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>
>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
>> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
>> bar. No big deal, imo.
>>
> On my monitor, opening the tab bar removes more than 5% of the view port
> (the content portion of the Web page I am viewing).  Thus, I set the
> preference to hide the tab bar when only one tab is open.
>
Again, you're are in the 0.01% of users when doing this and, honestly,
keeping a web site's 16 bit cartoon ad branding image on the URLbar just
for this very rare instance is hardly justification, no? I mean, you do
know one can simply enable the tab bar in those instances where they
won't feel complete unless they see the favicon and then collapse it
again afterward, right?

--
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 5:01 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 2:35 PM:
>> On 4/28/2012 2:24 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/28/2012
>>> 7:50 AM:
>>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>>>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>>>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> light
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to
>>>>>>>>>>> Bugzilla to
>>>>>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox
>>>>>>>>>> way;
>>>>>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been
>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could
>>>>>>>>>> convince
>>>>>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the
>>>>>>>>> design of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>>>>>> future
>>>>>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable
>>>>>>>>> Stephen
>>>>>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the
>>>>>>>>> tab)
>>>>>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a
>>>>>>>> dozen
>>>>>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open
>>>>>>>> (99% of
>>>>>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe
>>>>>>>> icon.
>>>>>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>>>>>> favicon?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>>>>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you
>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when
>>>>>>> only one
>>>>>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including
>>>>>>> power
>>>>>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution
>>>>>>> to all
>>>>>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or
>>>>>>> learning
>>>>>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any
>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>>>>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>>>>>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>>>>>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>>>>>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
>>>>> tab, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
>>>>> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
>>>>> left to the tab, if at all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
>>>> Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the
>>>> tab as well.
>>>>
>>>> One on, All on!!
>>>>
>>> I disagree. The site identification icon should only occur in one place
>>> so users always know where it's located. Plus, leaving the favicons on
>>> the tab still provides the favicon feature as well.
>>>
>>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>>
>>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users. If
>>> they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable the tab
>>> bar. No big deal, imo.
>>>
>> I would suggest a Testpilot survey on this issue. I would bet a LOT of
>> users don't use tabs at all, and are smart enough to turn them off if
>> only one is open. Wasted line on the screen.
>>
>
> What do you prefer:
>
> [ ] Tab bar to queue up interesting web pages in the background and
> minimize wasted desktop space with a bunch of open windows
>
> [ ] No tab bar to save a few pixels of vertical pixels but makes your
> desktop look like a rat's nest
>
> [ ] No tab bar and never open more than one web site at a time thus gain
> a few extra vertical pixels and a clean desktop but having to wait for
> loads of every site of interest
>
>
> Methinks the results would be overwhelmingly the first option but you
> could prove me wrong.
>
I prefer it as it is now.  I have the tab bar only when I have more than
one active tab.  Since that is my status most of the time, it makes
sense to save the vertical pixels for data.
Note I don't use the tabs on top (in the Windows title bar) because I
don't run full screen except when reading my online newspaper.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 5:04 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>
>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>>> again, or may not.
>>>
>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>
>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>
> And so the outrageous outrage begins.
>
When you start taking out features because someone uses them to cause
problems, then you will soon have nothing left.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>
>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>>> again, or may not.
>>>
>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>
>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>
> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam and
> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content consumed on
> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their favicon
> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>
> just sayin'
>
I completely miss your point, or you missed mine.  What does ad spam
have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 7:54 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what David E. Ross graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 5:31 PM:
>> On 4/28/12 12:24 PM, Sailfish wrote [in part]:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 7:50 AM [also in part]:
>>>
>>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>>
>>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users.
>>> If they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable
>>> the tab bar. No big deal, imo.
>>>
>> On my monitor, opening the tab bar removes more than 5% of the view port
>> (the content portion of the Web page I am viewing). Thus, I set the
>> preference to hide the tab bar when only one tab is open.
>>
> Again, you're are in the 0.01% of users when doing this and, honestly,
> keeping a web site's 16 bit cartoon ad branding image on the URLbar just
> for this very rare instance is hardly justification, no? I mean, you do
> know one can simply enable the tab bar in those instances where they
> won't feel complete unless they see the favicon and then collapse it
> again afterward, right?
>
It may be rare for you, but I would bet it isn't at all rare for most
users.  You say you routinely keep a number of tabs open, so to you this
isn't a problem as you are USING the tab bar.  Having one single tab
there is a waste of space that could be used for more data, and fewer
scrolls.
When tabs first came out, there were a LOT of people asking how to get
rid of it, and I suspect they still don't use it.  I may, once or twice
a day, have more than one tab open, but then only very briefly.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 6:02 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 5:04 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from
>>>>> the
>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>
>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>
>> And so the outrageous outrage begins.
>>
> When you start taking out features because someone uses them to cause
> problems, then you will soon have nothing left.
>
I understand but, as I said, you're in the 0.01% who might take umbrage
by this change and, for the rest of the community, Firefox will have
reduced web site spam by 50%. I vote for the spam reduction and site ID
clarity as a more desirable feature.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 6:04 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from
>>>>> the
>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>
>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>
>> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam and
>> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content consumed on
>> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their favicon
>> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
>> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>>
>> just sayin'
>>
> I completely miss your point, or you missed mine.  What does ad spam
> have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?
>
You missed my point. Favicons are company branding and, as such, are a
form of advertising. I can't make it much more clear than that.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 6:07 PM:

> On 4/28/2012 7:54 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what David E. Ross graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 5:31 PM:
>>> On 4/28/12 12:24 PM, Sailfish wrote [in part]:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 7:50 AM [also in part]:
>>>>
>>>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>>>
>>>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users.
>>>> If they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable
>>>> the tab bar. No big deal, imo.
>>>>
>>> On my monitor, opening the tab bar removes more than 5% of the view port
>>> (the content portion of the Web page I am viewing). Thus, I set the
>>> preference to hide the tab bar when only one tab is open.
>>>
>> Again, you're are in the 0.01% of users when doing this and, honestly,
>> keeping a web site's 16 bit cartoon ad branding image on the URLbar just
>> for this very rare instance is hardly justification, no? I mean, you do
>> know one can simply enable the tab bar in those instances where they
>> won't feel complete unless they see the favicon and then collapse it
>> again afterward, right?
>>
> It may be rare for you, but I would bet it isn't at all rare for most
> users.  You say you routinely keep a number of tabs open, so to you this
> isn't a problem as you are USING the tab bar.  Having one single tab
> there is a waste of space that could be used for more data, and fewer
> scrolls.
> When tabs first came out, there were a LOT of people asking how to get
> rid of it, and I suspect they still don't use it.  I may, once or twice
> a day, have more than one tab open, but then only very briefly.
>
You, sir, have come down with a serious case of projecting.

If tabs were not wildly popular over the single site per window method
then all the browsers would not have spent big bucks to include them.
Name me a desktop browser out there that doesn't support tabs and then
show me it's browser share.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

WaltS-3
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 04/28/2012 09:07 PM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/28/2012 7:54 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what David E. Ross graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 5:31 PM:
>>> On 4/28/12 12:24 PM, Sailfish wrote [in part]:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 7:50 AM [also in part]:
>>>>
>>>>> If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
>>>>> screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??
>>>>>
>>>> As I explained earlier, that situation is in the 0.01% area of users.
>>>> If they really want to see the favicon, all they need do is enable
>>>> the tab bar. No big deal, imo.
>>>>
>>> On my monitor, opening the tab bar removes more than 5% of the view port
>>> (the content portion of the Web page I am viewing). Thus, I set the
>>> preference to hide the tab bar when only one tab is open.
>>>
>> Again, you're are in the 0.01% of users when doing this and, honestly,
>> keeping a web site's 16 bit cartoon ad branding image on the URLbar just
>> for this very rare instance is hardly justification, no? I mean, you do
>> know one can simply enable the tab bar in those instances where they
>> won't feel complete unless they see the favicon and then collapse it
>> again afterward, right?
>>
> It may be rare for you, but I would bet it isn't at all rare for most
> users.  You say you routinely keep a number of tabs open, so to you this
> isn't a problem as you are USING the tab bar.  Having one single tab
> there is a waste of space that could be used for more data, and fewer
> scrolls.
> When tabs first came out, there were a LOT of people asking how to get
> rid of it, and I suspect they still don't use it.  I may, once or twice
> a day, have more than one tab open, but then only very briefly.
>

Do you have the Menu Bar showing? Bookmarks Toolbar? All take up space.

What does an icon showing in the URL bar of a Window with no tabs, or
one with them have to do with the content of the site? Are there really
millions of users just focusing on the favicon, going yep that's the
site, not reading the content, and moving onto the next favicon?

Astounding!

--
Thunderbird (15.0a1) Daily | openSUSE 12.1 | KDE 4.7.2
Some people just have to pass on the right, when you are supposed to
pass on the left. Depending on the country.


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