Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Daniel-257
Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/25/2012 9:44 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
>> On 4/25/12 4:14 AM, Bill Braun wrote:
>>> On 4/24/2012 1:41 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>> REF:
>>>> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/04/24/firefox-is-killing-off-the-favicon/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [excerpt quote="
>>>> The problem, apparently, arrises when sites decide to use tricky
>>>> favicons such as padlocks to give off a false sense of security.
>>>> According to the blog post, “this behavior can trick users in to
>>>> thinking that a site is using a secure connection when on an unsecured
>>>> connection.” Because of these offenders, starting with yesterdays’s
>>>> nightly, Firefox will no longer include the favicon in the address bar.
>>>> " /]
>>>>
>>>> Fade to collapse?
>>>
>>>
>>> Why not increase the prominence of secure and insecure sites in the
>>> address bar? Right now, secure sites highlight the site name with an
>>> insipid blue background.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>
>> I added the following to userChrome.css in my profile's chrome directory:
>>
>> /* Make address area pink instead of yellow when page is secure */
>> @-moz-document url("chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul")
>> { .urlbar-security-level[level="high"],
>> .urlbar-security-level[level="low"]
>> { background-color: #FFD0F0 !important; color: #000000 } }
>>
>> This makes the address area pink when the page is secure. Pink stands
>> out better than yellow, which was the default.
>>
> Gee, what's wrong with green? Means 'go' for most of us.
>

I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
work!! Maybe not visually, but.........

--
Daniel
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
On 4/26/2012 4:55 AM, Daniel wrote:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/25/2012 9:44 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>> On 4/25/12 4:14 AM, Bill Braun wrote:
>>>> On 4/24/2012 1:41 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> REF:
>>>>> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/04/24/firefox-is-killing-off-the-favicon/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [excerpt quote="
>>>>> The problem, apparently, arrises when sites decide to use tricky
>>>>> favicons such as padlocks to give off a false sense of security.
>>>>> According to the blog post, “this behavior can trick users in to
>>>>> thinking that a site is using a secure connection when on an unsecured
>>>>> connection.” Because of these offenders, starting with yesterdays’s
>>>>> nightly, Firefox will no longer include the favicon in the address
>>>>> bar.
>>>>> " /]
>>>>>
>>>>> Fade to collapse?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why not increase the prominence of secure and insecure sites in the
>>>> address bar? Right now, secure sites highlight the site name with an
>>>> insipid blue background.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> I added the following to userChrome.css in my profile's chrome
>>> directory:
>>>
>>> /* Make address area pink instead of yellow when page is secure */
>>> @-moz-document url("chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul")
>>> { .urlbar-security-level[level="high"],
>>> .urlbar-security-level[level="low"]
>>> { background-color: #FFD0F0 !important; color: #000000 } }
>>>
>>> This makes the address area pink when the page is secure. Pink stands
>>> out better than yellow, which was the default.
>>>
>> Gee, what's wrong with green? Means 'go' for most of us.
>>
>
> I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
> work!! Maybe not visually, but.........
>
I think that what most users would assume, at least in the major part of
the world.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

»Q«
In reply to this post by Daniel-257
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jay Garcia wrote:
> > On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
> >
> >> Jay Garcia wrote:
> >>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
> >>>>
> >>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
> >>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
> >>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
> >>>>
> >>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
> >>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
> >>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
> >>>
> >>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
> >>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
> >>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
> >>
> >> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
> >>
> >> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
> >> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
> >>
> >> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
> >>
> >> On the Mail&  Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
> >> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
> >>
> >
> > In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>
> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
> bar??

Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.  That's
an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
them to move it.  Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Jeremy Nicoll - ml mozilla general
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 4/26/2012 4:55 AM, Daniel wrote:

>> I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
>> work!! Maybe not visually, but.........
>>
> I think that what most users would assume, at least in the major part of
> the world.

Isn't red/green colour-blindness the kind that most often afflicts men?

--
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 4/27/12 1:50 PM, Jeremy Nicoll - ml mozilla general wrote:

> Ron Hunter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 4/26/2012 4:55 AM, Daniel wrote:
>
>>> I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
>>> work!! Maybe not visually, but.........
>>>
>> I think that what most users would assume, at least in the major part of
>> the world.
>
> Isn't red/green colour-blindness the kind that most often afflicts men?
>

See bug #657442 at <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=657442>.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 4/27/2012 3:15 PM, »Q« wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
> Daniel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>
>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>
>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>
>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>
>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>
>>>> On the Mail&   Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>
>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>> bar??
>
> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.  That's
> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
> them to move it.  Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>
It is interesting that the padlock was removed from GC, then from
Firefox.  Now it is back in GC, and on its way back in Firefox.  I would
much rather Firefox BE the leader, rather than follower.  Following is
what leads to decreasing market share.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 4/27/2012 3:50 PM, Jeremy Nicoll - ml mozilla general wrote:

> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> On 4/26/2012 4:55 AM, Daniel wrote:
>
>>> I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
>>> work!! Maybe not visually, but.........
>>>
>> I think that what most users would assume, at least in the major part of
>> the world.
>
> Isn't red/green colour-blindness the kind that most often afflicts men?
>
It is rare in females, and about 10% of males have this problem.  I
suppose some alternatives might be in order for those with the problem.
  Best idea is to allow the USER to determine what colors mean what.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by David E. Ross-3
On 4/27/2012 4:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

> On 4/27/12 1:50 PM, Jeremy Nicoll - ml mozilla general wrote:
>> Ron Hunter<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/26/2012 4:55 AM, Daniel wrote:
>>
>>>> I'd be thinking Green is safe/secure and Red is dangerous/open should
>>>> work!! Maybe not visually, but.........
>>>>
>>> I think that what most users would assume, at least in the major part of
>>> the world.
>>
>> Isn't red/green colour-blindness the kind that most often afflicts men?
>>
>
> See bug #657442 at<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=657442>.
>
There are red/green, and blue/green issues.  So what has Mozilla chosen?
  Blue and green.  Someone might drag out the old ADA (not the language,
but the law) on this one.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Jay Garcia
In reply to this post by »Q«
On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:

 --- Original Message ---

> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
> Daniel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> > On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>> >
>> >> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> >>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>> >>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>> >>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>> >>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>> >>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>> >>>
>> >>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>> >>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>> >>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>> >>
>> >> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>> >>
>> >> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>> >> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>> >>
>> >> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>> >>
>> >> On the Mail&  Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>> >> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>> >>
>> >
>> > In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>
>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>> bar??
>
> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.  That's
> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
> them to move it.  Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>

Coupla interesting things:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419

And from the dev group:

Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
look and feel of Firefox.

A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
Horlander: https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253

Two of the major changes in the design are:
 - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
 - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption


--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:

> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>
>   --- Original Message ---
>
>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>> Daniel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>
>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>
>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>
>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the Mail&   Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>
>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>> bar??
>>
>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.  That's
>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>> them to move it.  Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>
>
> Coupla interesting things:
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>
> And from the dev group:
>
> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
> look and feel of Firefox.
>
> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
> Horlander: https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>
> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>   - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>   - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>
>
I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
tabs.  I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of MY
usage).  Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the favicon?

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 12:36 AM:

> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>
>>   --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>> Daniel<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the Mail&   Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>
>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>> bar??
>>>
>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.  That's
>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>> them to move it.  Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>
>>
>> Coupla interesting things:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>
>> And from the dev group:
>>
>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>
>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>> Horlander:
>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>
>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>   - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>   - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>
> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
> tabs.  I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of MY
> usage).  Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
> favicon?
>
Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
.01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
some 16bit icon, no?

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Daniel-257
Daniel wrote:

> Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>
>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>> shade of
>>>>> yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE BROWSER SCREEN*
>>>>> changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>
>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in the
>>>>> bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look. Anyone??
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address bar does
>>>> not change color. The area to the left of the address bar turns a nice
>>>> shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>
>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>
>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>
>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is no
>>> lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>
>>
>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>
>>
>
> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to get
> the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address bar??
>

RFE submitted to bugzilla:-
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=749936

Anybody want to second??

--
Daniel
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>> bar??
>>>>
>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>
>>> And from the dev group:
>>>
>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>
>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>> Horlander:
>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>
>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>
>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>> favicon?
>>
> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
> some 16bit icon, no?
>
The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used more
than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less.  I can't see burning screen space for
redundant information.  I still can't figure why a globe is somehow
better than a favicon.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>> bar??
>>>>
>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>
>>> And from the dev group:
>>>
>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>
>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>> Horlander:
>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>
>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>
>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>> favicon?
>>
> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
> some 16bit icon, no?
>
Not to me.  I use the favicons for my bookmarks toolbar.  Still, I can't
see how a generic globe icon is in any way less confusing than a favicon
which, at least, gives some information.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 6:55 AM:

> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>
>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>> Horlander:
>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>
>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>
>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>> favicon?
>>>
>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>
> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used more
> than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less.  I can't see burning screen space for
> redundant information.  I still can't figure why a globe is somehow
> better than a favicon.
>
Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
tab, no?

The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
left to the tab, if at all.

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
4/28/2012 6:57 AM:

> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>
>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>> Horlander:
>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>
>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>
>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>> favicon?
>>>
>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>
> Not to me.  I use the favicons for my bookmarks toolbar.  Still, I can't
> see how a generic globe icon is in any way less confusing than a favicon
> which, at least, gives some information.
>
They're still there in the bookmarks toolbar, it's only in the URLbar
where they are being replaced with a consistent site identification icon.

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>
>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>
>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>
>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>> Horlander:
>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>
>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>
>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>> favicon?
>>>
>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>
> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used more
> than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen space for
> redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is somehow
> better than a favicon.
>

In my limited understanding of this, Ron, the Globe is going to show the
lowest level of security, so has nothing to do with FF dropping the use
of Favicons!

Maybe, someone will come up with an Add-On so that users could have both
the security Icon *AND* the Favicon appear in the address bar!

Or the FF/SM teams will re-enable Favicons in the address bar!

--
Daniel
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
> 4/28/2012 6:55 AM:
>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up
>>>>>>>>>>> screen,
>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the
>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>
>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the
>>>>> future
>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>
>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>> favicon?
>>>>
>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>
>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used
>> more than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen
>> space for redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is
>> somehow better than a favicon.
>>
> Even with only two, the tab bar is shown and, thus, the favicon on the
> tab, no?
>
> The padlock(https:)/globe(http:) are better since they represent
> consistency wrt to site protocol identification. A favicon is better
> left to the tab, if at all.
>

But, Sailfish, the constant thing to do, IMHO, if your going to have
Favicons on the tabs, you should also have the security icon on the tab
as well.

One on, All on!!

If you only have one site open (i.e. no multi-tabs, just one browser
screen), where is the Favicon going to go now in FF 14??

--
Daniel
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

David E. Ross-3
In reply to this post by Daniel-257
On 4/28/12 7:09 AM, Daniel wrote:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 5:22 AM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 12:36 AM:
>>>> On 4/27/2012 10:42 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>> On 27.04.2012 15:15, »Q« wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:49:28 +1000
>>>>>> Daniel<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:56, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jay Garcia wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 25.04.2012 07:28, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it just me, ..... or am I missing something???
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When I go to bugzilla.mozilla.org, my address bar goes a light
>>>>>>>>>>> shade of yellow *AND THE PADLOCK DOWN IN THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THE
>>>>>>>>>>> BROWSER SCREEN* changes to locked. Why the double-up??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And it would make more sense to me to have the padlock up screen,
>>>>>>>>>>> immediately to the left of the address bar, rather than down in
>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom right of screen, where, it seems, few bother to look.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> May be theme dependant. No padlock here at all and the address
>>>>>>>>>> bar does not change color. The area to the left of the address
>>>>>>>>>> bar turns a nice shade of light blue. Theme is Nuvola and FF 12.0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SeaMonkey Default Theme, Default Style, i.e:-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0)
>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20120312 SeaMonkey/2.8
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would be similar on my Linux installation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On the Mail& Newsgroup and Chatzilla screens, of course, there is
>>>>>>>>> no lock icon, but there certainly is on the browser screen!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In SM 2.8 I see the same as you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what do you think, Jay?? Should I submit a SM RFE to Bugzilla to
>>>>>>> get the padlock moved from the bottom right to up next to the address
>>>>>>> bar??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing the UI to make more sense (to somebody) is the Firefox way;
>>>>>> keeping as much historical UI as possible is the SeaMonkey way. That's
>>>>>> an oversimplification, but the padlock at the bottom has been around
>>>>>> since Netscape days, and I'd be a bit surprised if you could convince
>>>>>> them to move it. Feel free to try, though, and good luck. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Coupla interesting things:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=742419
>>>>>
>>>>> And from the dev group:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bug 742149 was filed with the laudable aim to improve the design of the
>>>>> Firefox "identity block," in order to further streamline the user
>>>>> interface, reduce redundancy in the design, and move towards the future
>>>>> look and feel of Firefox.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mockup of the design work was provided by the inestimable Stephen
>>>>> Horlander:
>>>>> https://bug742419.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=612253
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of the major changes in the design are:
>>>>> - removing the favicon from the Location Bar (it's already in the tab)
>>>>> - displaying a padlock for sites that have valid SSL encryption
>>>>>
>>>> I wish that developers would stop assuming that everyone uses a dozen
>>>> tabs. I don't HAVE a tab bar when there is only one tab open (99% of
>>>> MY usage). Would rather have the favicon than some generic globe icon.
>>>> They both take the same amount of screen space, so WHY not have the
>>>> favicon?
>>>>
>>> Actually, developers don't/can't assume that everyone uses tabs but,
>>> rather that the vast majority do. You're a power user and so you went
>>> through the process of finding out how to hide the tab bar when only one
>>> tab is open. The vast majority won't bother doing that, including power
>>> users, I suspect. So, their decision, while not a 100% solution to all
>>> instances is probably valid for, oh, 99.99% of the users. And for the
>>> .01%s, they'll be left with either re-enabling the tab bar or learning
>>> to live without favicons. Of course, it's not as though favicons were
>>> ever a predicable site icon in the first place, what with any number of
>>> sites not using them or using some generic one. And why should they?
>>> Their web page is much more descriptive in conveying their brand than
>>> some 16bit icon, no?
>>>
>> The Testpilot survey revealed that only about 3% of users ever used more
>> than 10 tabs, and most 3 or less. I can't see burning screen space for
>> redundant information. I still can't figure why a globe is somehow
>> better than a favicon.
>>
>
> In my limited understanding of this, Ron, the Globe is going to show the
> lowest level of security, so has nothing to do with FF dropping the use
> of Favicons!
>
> Maybe, someone will come up with an Add-On so that users could have both
> the security Icon *AND* the Favicon appear in the address bar!
>
> Or the FF/SM teams will re-enable Favicons in the address bar!
>

Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.  The
change seems to be strictly for Firefox.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

WaltS-3
On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons from the
> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.  The
> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.

Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for Firefox
again, or may not.

I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
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