Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what PhillipJones graced us with on
4/29/2012 6:49 AM:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 9:50 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> What do you prefer:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I prefer not mucking about with a years-old user interface that millions
>>> of people are used to.
>>>
>>> Wanna make the underlying code/program better? Fine. Want to confuse
>>> users by changing what the screen is? Not a good idea.
>>>
>>> Just my (nearly worthless) two cents.
>>>
>> You should have told Microsoft that before they messed up totally with
>> Windows 8 Metro.
>>
> MS is still the thousand pound gorilla. If they tell you to do a dump on
> the King you do it, whether you want to or not - if you happen to have
> the mis fortune to own a windows machine. You follow because there is no
> choice.
>
May a 500lb gorilla, now-a-days ... and devolving even more with each
new mobile offering. No one talks about them as being part of the
mover-shaker crowd anymore.

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS-3
On 4/29/2012 8:38 AM, WLS wrote:

> On 04/29/2012 03:10 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 8:12 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 6:04 PM:
>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons
>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>>>>>>> Firefox
>>>>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>>>>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>>>>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>>>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>>>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam
>>>>> and
>>>>> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content consumed on
>>>>> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their
>>>>> favicon
>>>>> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
>>>>> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>>>>>
>>>>> just sayin'
>>>>>
>>>> I completely miss your point, or you missed mine. What does ad spam
>>>> have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?
>>>>
>>> You missed my point. Favicons are company branding and, as such, are a
>>> form of advertising. I can't make it much more clear than that.
>>>
>> Advertising, or identification? I use them for identification. Imagine a
>> bookmark toolbar with nothing but little globe icons. Useful?
>> In the URL bar, I only have to look at the favicon to tell where I am. I
>> don't have to try to read the 'reduced contrast' URL itself.
>>
>
> I don't have to read the URL in the identification/awesome/address/URL
> bar, or look at the favicon, I just read the page.
>
> Nobody has said anything about removing them from bookmarks.
>
> Do you contact the sites that don't have favicons, and rant at them,
> because you can't identify their site in the
> URL/address/awesome/identification bar?
I don't know.  I don't HAVE any such sites that I visit in the normal
course of a day.
n
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by PhillipJones
On 4/29/2012 8:49 AM, PhillipJones wrote:

> Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 4/28/2012 9:50 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> What do you prefer:
>>>>
>>>
>>> I prefer not mucking about with a years-old user interface that millions
>>> of people are used to.
>>>
>>> Wanna make the underlying code/program better? Fine. Want to confuse
>>> users by changing what the screen is? Not a good idea.
>>>
>>> Just my (nearly worthless) two cents.
>>>
>> You should have told Microsoft that before they messed up totally with
>> Windows 8 Metro.
>>
> MS is still the thousand pound gorilla. If they tell you to do a dump on
> the King you do it, whether you want to or not - if you happen to have
> the mis fortune to own a windows machine. You follow because there is no
> choice.
>
Nonsense.  I could use Linux (several varieties), or go to Google OS, or
bite the bullet and buy a Mac.  I THINK Apple knows the difference
between a tablet and a desktop computer, which MS seems to have
forgotten.  I don't like the stupid Metro interface on the windows
Phone, either.  Not going there.

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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

PhillipJones
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what PhillipJones graced us with on
> 4/29/2012 6:49 AM:
>> Ron Hunter wrote:
>>> On 4/28/2012 9:50 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> What do you prefer:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I prefer not mucking about with a years-old user interface that
>>>> millions
>>>> of people are used to.
>>>>
>>>> Wanna make the underlying code/program better? Fine. Want to confuse
>>>> users by changing what the screen is? Not a good idea.
>>>>
>>>> Just my (nearly worthless) two cents.
>>>>
>>> You should have told Microsoft that before they messed up totally with
>>> Windows 8 Metro.
>>>
>> MS is still the thousand pound gorilla. If they tell you to do a dump
>> on the King you do it, whether you want to or not - if you happen to
>> have the mis fortune to own a windows machine. You follow because
>> there is no choice.
>>
> May a 500lb gorilla, now-a-days ... and devolving even more with each
> new mobile offering. No one talks about them as being part of the
> mover-shaker crowd anymore.
>
When were they ever. THey've always copied others ideas which got them
in legal trouble. I can't think of a piece of software that was an
original Idea. Word, Excel, PowerPoint were purchases pennies on the
dollar from software designers that got into financial trouble.

Then in the beginning They used carrot and stick method to put
DOS/Windows on many brands of PC's  along the lines of (If you use our
software we will do everything to help you stay in business. If you
don't we will do everything in our power to put you out of business.)

The think about the original Windows. It was so close to the Mac OS it
was laughable and names were changed just enough to keep the feds off
their backsides.

Although they can't get away with such practices today and Darth Vader
has retired. They still wield excessive influence.

--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.        "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net        mailto:[hidden email]
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
My bloviated meandering follows what PhillipJones graced us with on
4/29/2012 2:37 PM:

[snip /]

> When were they ever. THey've always copied others ideas which got them
> in legal trouble. I can't think of a piece of software that was an
> original Idea. Word, Excel, PowerPoint were purchases pennies on the
> dollar from software designers that got into financial trouble.
>
Back in the heady days of Windows, they were the king of the mountain.
There was lots of angst-written hand wringing news and tech articles
about Microsoft getting all the wizkid cream of the crop, leaving lesser
companies scrambling for the scraps.

Very few software products that exists today emanated from the source
that introduced them. That especially includes your beloved Mac. Also,
it wasn't their copying ideas that got them in legal trouble, it was
their monopolistic practices.

> Then in the beginning They used carrot and stick method to put
> DOS/Windows on many brands of PC's  along the lines of (If you use our
> software we will do everything to help you stay in business. If you
> don't we will do everything in our power to put you out of business.)
>
uh, no. IBM made them the gold standard by legitimatizing the whole
concept of PC by having their name on the hardware and entering into a
legal agreement with Gates/Allen to have DOS as the operating system.

After Windows made king of the mountain, they did employ aggressive
marketing tactics to attempt to keep Windows there via a bundling
concept but I don't recall any lawsuits where they threatened to put
their dealers out of business unless they cooperated? Do you have a
link, per chance?

> The think about the original Windows. It was so close to the Mac OS it
> was laughable and names were changed just enough to keep the feds off
> their backsides.
>
And so? This is the story of the hi-tech industry in general.

> Although they can't get away with such practices today and Darth Vader
> has retired. They still wield excessive influence.
>
They can't because they, like most large organizations, have lost their
hunger and end up playing "keep the margins". It will happen to Apple
eventually, as well. Jobs was a meticulous genius whose focus on
becoming the king of the mountain knew no bounds, including forsaking
his family along the way and just being an all-around personal a$$hole.
The Apple king is dead, the new guy? We'll see...

--
Sailfish - Netscape Champion
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
Netscape/Mozilla Tips: http://www.ufaq.org/ , http://ilias.ca/
Rare Mozilla Stuff: https://www.projectit.com/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Daniel-257
In reply to this post by Sailfish-2
Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/29/2012
> 3:43 AM:
>> Sailfish wrote:
>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>> 4/28/2012 6:04 PM:
>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons
>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey. The
>>>>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>>>>>>> Firefox
>>>>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to use
>>>>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection seems a
>>>>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>>>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>>>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam
>>>>> and
>>>>> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content consumed on
>>>>> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their
>>>>> favicon
>>>>> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
>>>>> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>>>>>
>>>>> just sayin'
>>>>>
>>>> I completely miss your point, or you missed mine. What does ad spam
>>>> have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?
>>>>
>>> You missed my point. Favicons are company branding and, as such, are a
>>> form of advertising. I can't make it much more clear than that.
>>>
>>
>> What about the other company branding that goes on on the
>> internet.....mozilla.com is branding for mozilla, microsoft.com is
>> branding for Microsoft, disney.com is branding for Disney corp!
>>
>> If we are going to get rid of branding, we have to get rid of the
>> address bar!!
>>
>> Come on....who's with me????
>>
> Branding on their content tab is fine, after all, the site is providing
> one something of interest.
>

So you're happy for one or more net sites to use a locked padlock as
their branding, then!

--
Daniel
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Ron Hunter
On 4/30/2012 7:53 AM, Daniel wrote:

> Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/29/2012
>> 3:43 AM:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 6:04 PM:
>>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>>>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons
>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>>>>>>>> Firefox
>>>>>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection
>>>>>>> seems a
>>>>>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>>>>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>>>>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content
>>>>>> consumed on
>>>>>> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their
>>>>>> favicon
>>>>>> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
>>>>>> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just sayin'
>>>>>>
>>>>> I completely miss your point, or you missed mine. What does ad spam
>>>>> have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?
>>>>>
>>>> You missed my point. Favicons are company branding and, as such, are a
>>>> form of advertising. I can't make it much more clear than that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What about the other company branding that goes on on the
>>> internet.....mozilla.com is branding for mozilla, microsoft.com is
>>> branding for Microsoft, disney.com is branding for Disney corp!
>>>
>>> If we are going to get rid of branding, we have to get rid of the
>>> address bar!!
>>>
>>> Come on....who's with me????
>>>
>> Branding on their content tab is fine, after all, the site is providing
>> one something of interest.
>>
>
> So you're happy for one or more net sites to use a locked padlock as
> their branding, then!
>
If they wish.  If I don't see https, then I won't enter sensitive data.
  Firefox users can also get security information by clicking on the
domain name and then 'more information'.  Everything you always wanted
to know, and lots more.
Probably, that is the reason that the lock icon was always in the status
bar, which is no longer available.  Seems simpler to just move the lock
icon to the right side of the URL bar.


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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Sailfish-2
In reply to this post by Daniel-257
My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/30/2012
5:53 AM:

> Sailfish wrote:
>> My bloviated meandering follows what Daniel graced us with on 4/29/2012
>> 3:43 AM:
>>> Sailfish wrote:
>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>> 4/28/2012 6:04 PM:
>>>>> On 4/28/2012 5:26 PM, Sailfish wrote:
>>>>>> My bloviated meandering follows what Ron Hunter graced us with on
>>>>>> 4/28/2012 2:31 PM:
>>>>>>> On 4/28/2012 12:21 PM, WLS wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 04/28/2012 01:09 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Cuttently, it appears that this change -- eliminating favicons
>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>> address area (URI bar) -- will not be implemented in SeaMonkey.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> change seems to be strictly for Firefox.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Following the discussion in a developer group it may change for
>>>>>>>> Firefox
>>>>>>>> again, or may not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll try to pay attention in the Nightly builds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somehow the loss of the favicon because some idiots are trying to
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> it to fool people into thinking they have a secure connection
>>>>>>> seems a
>>>>>>> bit offensive. Give them the win on this one, and we all lose. This
>>>>>>> kind of thing could get to be an epidemic, causing every valuable
>>>>>>> feature to be dropped because it can be abused, or misused. Sad.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> btw, you do realize that you are arguing in favor of "more" ad spam
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> not the other way around, right? The fact is, most content
>>>>>> consumed on
>>>>>> the internet are from money-making corporations. As such, their
>>>>>> favicon
>>>>>> is nothing more than a branding ad, much the same as people wearing
>>>>>> Disney, Coke or Dallas Cowboys gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> just sayin'
>>>>>>
>>>>> I completely miss your point, or you missed mine. What does ad spam
>>>>> have to do with favicons, or phoney security 'locks'?
>>>>>
>>>> You missed my point. Favicons are company branding and, as such, are a
>>>> form of advertising. I can't make it much more clear than that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What about the other company branding that goes on on the
>>> internet.....mozilla.com is branding for mozilla, microsoft.com is
>>> branding for Microsoft, disney.com is branding for Disney corp!
>>>
>>> If we are going to get rid of branding, we have to get rid of the
>>> address bar!!
>>>
>>> Come on....who's with me????
>>>
>> Branding on their content tab is fine, after all, the site is providing
>> one something of interest.
>>
> So you're happy for one or more net sites to use a locked padlock as
> their branding, then!
>
Sure, as long as it's not displayed on the URLbar where the siteID is
understood to reside.

--
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Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Gus Richter
In reply to this post by Gus Richter
On 4/24/2012 5:34 PM, Gus Richter wrote:
> <http://msujaws.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/an-update-to-site-identity-in-desktop-firefox/>


More from  moz.dev.apps.firefox

Taking all that into account we have the new design:
<http://cl.ly/401E0Z3A0e1F3T2u1J3C>


(From top to bottom)

- Default state
- SSL state
- EV state
- Mixed/broken encryption state
- Malware/phishing state

We still have some improvements to make ..........


--
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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

WaltS-3
On 05/03/2012 09:09 PM, Gus Richter wrote:

> On 4/24/2012 5:34 PM, Gus Richter wrote:
>> <http://msujaws.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/an-update-to-site-identity-in-desktop-firefox/>
>>
>
>
> More from  moz.dev.apps.firefox
>
> Taking all that into account we have the new design:
> <http://cl.ly/401E0Z3A0e1F3T2u1J3C>
>
>
> (From top to bottom)
>
> - Default state
> - SSL state
> - EV state
> - Mixed/broken encryption state
> - Malware/phishing state
>
> We still have some improvements to make ..........
>
>

I looked at that earlier, and I think I like the changes, if I can
remember what they mean

--
Thunderbird (14.0a2) Earlybird | openSUSE 12.1 | KDE 4.7.2
Some people just have to pass on the right, when you are supposed to
pass on the left. Depending on the country.


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Re: Firefox kills off favicon in URL bar

Gus Richter
On 5/3/2012 9:15 PM, WLS wrote:

> On 05/03/2012 09:09 PM, Gus Richter wrote:
>> On 4/24/2012 5:34 PM, Gus Richter wrote:
>>> <http://msujaws.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/an-update-to-site-identity-in-desktop-firefox/>
>>>
>>
>>
>> More from  moz.dev.apps.firefox
>>
>> Taking all that into account we have the new design:
>> <http://cl.ly/401E0Z3A0e1F3T2u1J3C>
>>
>>
>> (From top to bottom)
>>
>> - Default state
>> - SSL state
>> - EV state
>> - Mixed/broken encryption state
>> - Malware/phishing state
>>
>> We still have some improvements to make ..........
>>
>>
>
> I looked at that earlier, and I think I like the changes, if I can
> remember what they mean


Hehe, same here. At my age .........

--
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