Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

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Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Benjamin Smedberg
We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination meeting on
Wednesday at 1PM PT (2100 UTC). The purpose of these meetings is to
coordinate the activities leading up to the release of Firefox Lorentz with
multi-process plugins.

Summary:
* Tracking blockers for turning OOPP on by default in mozilla-central (this
week!)
* Tracking blockers for beta 1 (next week?)
* Unresolved projects/problems

Details:
* Agenda: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis/Meetings/2010-01-13
* Wed 13-Jan @ 1PM PST
* 650-903-0800 x92 conf #8605 (US/INTL)
* 1-800-707-2533 (pin 369) conf #8605 (US)
* irc.mozilla.org #planning for backchannel

--BDS
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Robert Kaiser
Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
> We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination meeting

Has the Lorentz plan magically been approved? The only thing I could
grasp from the recent thread on this is that there's a lot of confusion
there, and esp. it seems that everyone is assuming a 1.9.3 still coming
from current trunk to a release in the summer, which was not the case in
the wiki doc I read some time ago.

Can the plans and/or decisions please be clarified?

Robert Kaiser
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Mike Beltzner
On 1/12/2010 7:49 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
>> We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination meeting
>
> Has the Lorentz plan magically been approved? The only thing I could

There was no magic about it. It was discussed at last Tuesday's meeting,
and the creation of the project branch (based off of mozilla-1.9.2) has
gone ahead. A group of people agreed to work towards back-porting the
out of process plugins pieces from trunk to that project branch.
Benjamin is putting together a co-ordination meeting for people
interested in that project.

> Can the plans and/or decisions please be clarified?

I owe an overall development roadmap update, yes, and will do so when
possible given my busy week [1].

cheers,
mike

[1]:
http://beltzner.ca/mike/2010/01/11/its-beginning-to-feel-a-lot-like-a-software-release/
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
Mike Beltzner wrote on 12. Jan 2010:

>>> We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination
>>> meeting
>>
>> Has the Lorentz plan magically been approved? The only thing I
>> could
>
> There was no magic about it. It was discussed at last Tuesday's
> meeting, and the creation of the project branch (based off of
> mozilla-1.9.2) has gone ahead.

From an outside perspective this looks like magic.

If you ask for feedback in a public forum, it would be really nice
if you also post to this forum, once you have reached a decision
and how you addressed (or not addressed) the feedback that you
solicited.

Simon

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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Mike Beltzner
On 2010-01-12, at 11:01 AM, Simon Paquet wrote:

> Mike Beltzner wrote on 12. Jan 2010:
>
>>>> We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination meeting
>>> Has the Lorentz plan magically been approved? The only thing I could
>> There was no magic about it. It was discussed at last Tuesday's meeting, and the creation of the project branch (based off of mozilla-1.9.2) has gone ahead.
>
> From an outside perspective this looks like magic.

I think people are misreading the creation of a co-ordination meeting for a decision about what we are shipping and when. No such decision has been completely made, and I think my track record of keeping people up to date about those sorts of things is fairly good, although I'm always willing to take feedback.

However:
 - anyone can create a project branch (the procedure is documented on the wiki).
 - anyone can call for a project co-ordination meeting (the resources are available to members of the community)

Benjamin is co-ordinating work and building a project branch on which to see if he and others can back-port out of process plugins to the 1.9.2 branch. That work may or may not be shipped onto that branch.

> If you ask for feedback in a public forum, it would be really nice
> if you also post to this forum, once you have reached a decision
> and how you addressed (or not addressed) the feedback that you
> solicited.

I have already stated that I am late in an update on schedule and deliveries, and don't really see a need to repeat that apology over and over again.

cheers,
mike
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Asa Dotzler-2
In reply to this post by Simon Paquet-2
On 1/12/2010 8:01 AM, Simon Paquet wrote:
>
>  From an outside perspective this looks like magic.


I'm curious what you mean by "outside"?  The Tuesday meetings are public
and advertised consistently to this newsgroup with a U.S. and
international call-in phone number, a wiki page, and an IRC channel.

Is there something more that meeting could do to make you feel less
"outside" short of an airplane ticket?

- A
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Mark Banner-2
On 12/01/2010 22:57, Asa Dotzler wrote:
> On 1/12/2010 8:01 AM, Simon Paquet wrote:
>>
>> From an outside perspective this looks like magic.
>
>
> I'm curious what you mean by "outside"? The Tuesday meetings are public
> and advertised consistently to this newsgroup with a U.S. and
> international call-in phone number, a wiki page, and an IRC channel.

Yes fine, but not all of us can make that (for me it happens to be at a
very difficult time especially to make on a regular basis) - note this
is *not* a request that we should change the time.

> Is there something more that meeting could do to make you feel less
> "outside" short of an airplane ticket?

So if we can't make it what do we do? The best option normally is to
look at the meeting notes with the outcome of the meeting... that is
what the wiki page is for right? That is why the wiki page gets posted
to planet?

Assuming I've got the right meeting then, quoting from the wiki page:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/2010-01-05

<quote 1>
Firefox Future Releases

     * please see the discussion in the newsgroups about the plan for a
release code named "Lorentz", to be delivered early in Q1 with a focus
on delivering out of process plugin support for at least Flash on
Windows. We'll also discuss this in today's roundtable.
</quote 1>

<quote 2>
  Roundtable

     * Major or minor update from 3.5 to 3.6?
           o A: Throttled major update on the day of release
</quote 2>


No mention of the outcome of the discussion, no follow-ups on
newsgroups, no blog posts. Silence. That's why it seems like magic.

I'd also argue that even if it was on the wiki page, given the size and
discussion of the newsgroup thread, a 2-minute follow-up message would
have meant that anyone interested (but for some reason not following or
able to make the platform meeting) would have been informed.

Standard8
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Asa Dotzler-2
Asa Dotzler wrote on 12. Jan 2010:

>>  From an outside perspective this looks like magic.
>
> I'm curious what you mean by "outside"? The Tuesday meetings are public
> and advertised consistently to this newsgroup with a U.S. and
> international call-in phone number, a wiki page, and an IRC channel.

As said before, if something gets discussed here and feedback is
solicited here, a short summary of the results and a short reply to
the various feedback options that were given, would be appreciated.

Beltzner has promised that this will more consistently happen in the
future, so the case is closed for me.

That's what I mean by outside.

> Is there something more that meeting could do to make you feel less
> "outside" short of an airplane ticket?

As for the weekly meeting, I'd like to attend more often, but basically
can't manage it, because with a day job and a life outside of Mozilla
it gets hard.

Please note, that this is basically an issue on *my* side and I'm not
asking that the meeting should be moved to a different time.

Simon

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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
Mike Beltzner wrote:

> On 1/12/2010 7:49 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> Benjamin Smedberg wrote:
>>> We are going to hold a weekly Firefox Lorentz coordination meeting
>>
>> Has the Lorentz plan magically been approved? The only thing I could
>
> There was no magic about it. It was discussed at last Tuesday's meeting,
> and the creation of the project branch (based off of mozilla-1.9.2) has
> gone ahead. A group of people agreed to work towards back-porting the
> out of process plugins pieces from trunk to that project branch.
> Benjamin is putting together a co-ordination meeting for people
> interested in that project.

Thanks, good to know, I missed that meeting due to my dad's birthday
party ;)

>> Can the plans and/or decisions please be clarified?
>
> I owe an overall development roadmap update, yes, and will do so when
> possible given my busy week [1].

Thanks, yesterday's meeting also cleared up a lot - if making clear that
nothing is really clear yet counts ;-)

Robert Kaiser
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Mike Beltzner
On 2010-01-13, at 8:24 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:

> Thanks, good to know, I missed that meeting due to my dad's birthday party ;)

Happy birthday!

>>> Can the plans and/or decisions please be clarified?
>>
>> I owe an overall development roadmap update, yes, and will do so when
>> possible given my busy week [1].
>
> Thanks, yesterday's meeting also cleared up a lot - if making clear that nothing is really clear yet counts ;-)

That's good, as I didn't really have time to prepare for that meeting, and still haven't had time to write up the notes, and didn't get to it before they were scraped onto Planet. I'll try to post something today summarizing what I said in the meeting yesterday, but my schedule is somewhat packed this week with press briefings for the release of Firefox 3.6 (yay!)

It's been mentioned a few times that we can elect to have the meeting recorded as an MP3; perhaps we should do that? Or as an OGG file?

cheers,
mike
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Re: Firefox Lorentz Coordination Meeting: Wed Jan 13 @ 1PM PT

Robert Kaiser
In reply to this post by Robert Kaiser
Mike Beltzner wrote:
> It's been mentioned a few times that we can elect to have the meeting recorded as an MP3; perhaps we should do that? Or as an OGG file?

If so, then an ogg file that can be played with the <audio> tag ;-)

I think though that any recording cannot replace a written summary, but
it can for sure be helpful.

Robert Kaiser
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