Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

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Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Axel Hecht
Hi all,

there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did discuss
our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like to put this up
for comments. Notes are back on
https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.

Please don't edit the wiki page itself, but comment here or in the talk
page.

Any combination of "good", "bad", "better", "worse" would be
interesting, as well as things that we completely missed so far.

Thanks

Axel
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Pavel Cvrcek (Mozilla.cz)
Dne 28.1.2010 13:16, Axel Hecht napsal(a):

> there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did discuss
> our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like to put this up
> for comments. Notes are back on
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.
>
> Please don't edit the wiki page itself, but comment here or in the talk
> page.
>
> Any combination of "good", "bad", "better", "worse" would be
> interesting, as well as things that we completely missed so far.

I'm missing something about Verbatim (http://localize.mozilla.org/). I
see lack of activity on this front. No interested from l10n teams and
many problems in last two months.

Regards,

--
Pavel Cvrček <[hidden email]>
http://www.mozilla.cz/
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Axel Hecht
On 28.01.10 14:07, Pavel Cvrcek wrote:

> Dne 28.1.2010 13:16, Axel Hecht napsal(a):
>> there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did discuss
>> our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like to put this up
>> for comments. Notes are back on
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.
>>
>> Please don't edit the wiki page itself, but comment here or in the talk
>> page.
>>
>> Any combination of "good", "bad", "better", "worse" would be
>> interesting, as well as things that we completely missed so far.
>
> I'm missing something about Verbatim (http://localize.mozilla.org/). I
> see lack of activity on this front. No interested from l10n teams and
> many problems in last two months.

Is that a comment in general or is there a connection with the Firefox
3.6 release?

Axel
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Pavel Cvrcek (Mozilla.cz)
Dne 28.1.2010 14:17, Axel Hecht napsal(a):
>> I'm missing something about Verbatim (http://localize.mozilla.org/). I
>> see lack of activity on this front. No interested from l10n teams and
>> many problems in last two months.
>
> Is that a comment in general or is there a connection with the Firefox
> 3.6 release?

Verbatim was only one way how to localize website GetPersonas.com which
is linked from Firefox 3.6 start pages. So I think this is related to
Firefox 3.6 release but maybe it's just my point of view. At this moment
we just have 3 translations of GetPersonas website.

Regards,

--
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http://www.mozilla.cz/
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getpersonas localization (was Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input)

Alexandru Szasz
Pe 28.01.2010 16:23, Pavel Cvrcek a scris:

> Dne 28.1.2010 14:17, Axel Hecht napsal(a):
>>> I'm missing something about Verbatim (http://localize.mozilla.org/). I
>>> see lack of activity on this front. No interested from l10n teams and
>>> many problems in last two months.
>>
>> Is that a comment in general or is there a connection with the Firefox
>> 3.6 release?
>
> Verbatim was only one way how to localize website GetPersonas.com
> which is linked from Firefox 3.6 start pages. So I think this is
> related to Firefox 3.6 release but maybe it's just my point of view.
> At this moment we just have 3 translations of GetPersonas website.
>
I added it as soon as it appeared in Narro (
https://l10n.mozilla.org/narro/narro_project_list.php?l=ku ), I'm sure
that there's a way to submit po files, I think there's just little
interest for now.

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Alexandru Szasz
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Seth Bindernagel
In reply to this post by Pavel Cvrcek (Mozilla.cz)


Pavel Cvrcek wrote:

> Dne 28.1.2010 13:16, Axel Hecht napsal(a):
>> there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did discuss
>> our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like to put this up
>> for comments. Notes are back on
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.
>>
>> Please don't edit the wiki page itself, but comment here or in the talk
>> page.
>>
>> Any combination of "good", "bad", "better", "worse" would be
>> interesting, as well as things that we completely missed so far.
>
> I'm missing something about Verbatim (http://localize.mozilla.org/). I
> see lack of activity on this front. No interested from l10n teams and
> many problems in last two months.

Hi Pavel,

Discussing the Get Personas l10n is a relevant topic for the
post-mortem.  However, I don't know if you'll agree with me or not, but
I do *not* think that Verbatim remarks should be part of Firefox 3.6
post-mortem meeting.  Here's why:

Although the two projects were linked, I think it is important to
separate the feedback into two sections:

   1. Get Personas l10n project management by Mozilla (related to FF3.6
      post-mortem),
   2. and Verbatim launch (not-related to FF 3.6 post-mortem).

With respect to the Get Personas l10n project management, below are some
topics that I remember that directly impacted the success of the
localization.  You might agree with this list or could even add some more:

   1. Site architecture redesign that took several *months*, eating away
      at time for localization
          * Filed June 19, 2009, close December 11, 2009
          * https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=499332
   2. Content changes by Get Personas marketing team late in the cycle
      also made it difficult to launch l10n until very late in the l10n
      cycle
          * http://viewvc.svn.mozilla.org/vc/projects/getpersonas.com/trunk/server/
            \
          * This shows some revision history that I'll point out in the
            FF3.6 post-mortem
   3. Localizer discussion of Get Personsas site vis-a-vis AMO caused
      initial hesitation by l10n community to take up the work
          * Evident in this thread
          * http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.l10n.web/browse_thread/thread/fd4cf00f6238d9cf/
   4. Problems pushing translated content live on the Get Personas site
          * https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=542059

I'll reference each of these (and any other relevant issues) in the FF
3.6 post-mortem.

A Verbatim post-launch analysis my best be served by a blog post.  I
think I'll start writing that now.

Hope this seems like a fair separation.  Any response (or additional FF
3.6 post mortem comments) would be helpful to frame our feedback to the
Firefox project managers.

Sincerely,

-sethb
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Gen Kanai-2
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht


On 1/28/10 9:16 PM, Axel Hecht wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did discuss
> our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like to put this
> up for comments. Notes are back on
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.
My feedback isn't good/bad/better/worse per se but more general.

3.6 was our first release in the "new" timeline, i.e. where we are doing
more releases per year, etc. My main concern is that as we raise the
number of releases per year, there's a greater burden on localizers in
general.  How do we grow the number of locales in this new paradigm?  
How do we make sure we don't loose locales in the future as we did
Mongolian?  We're seeing more and more web content (new projects, etc.)
that needs to be localized.

What do we need to change in our processes to accommodate both the
increased workload and the faster schedule?

I realize we don't have answers for all of these questions per se but
that's what's on my mind wrt the post-mortem.

Gen Kanai
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Re: Firefox 3.6 post-mortem input

Simon Paquet-2
In reply to this post by Axel Hecht
Gen Kanai wrote on 28. Jan 2010:

>> there's a post mortem for Firefox 3.6 today. l10n-drivers did
>> discuss our side of things on our call yesterday, and would like
>> to put this up for comments. Notes are back on
>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n/HomePage/Status/2010-01-27.
>
> My feedback isn't good/bad/better/worse per se but more general.
>
> 3.6 was our first release in the "new" timeline, i.e. where we are
> doing more releases per year, etc. My main concern is that as we
> raise the number of releases per year, there's a greater burden on
> localizers in general.  How do we grow the number of locales in
> this new paradigm? How do we make sure we don't loose locales in
> the future as we did Mongolian?  We're seeing more and more web
> content (new projects, etc.) that needs to be localized.
>
> What do we need to change in our processes to accommodate both the
> increased workload and the faster schedule?
>
> I realize we don't have answers for all of these questions per se
> but that's what's on my mind wrt the post-mortem.

That's a very good question, especially keeping mind, that other
mozilla projects like Thunderbird, Calendar and SeaMonkey are also
moving in the direction of a faster release cycle and at least for
Thunderbird, there's a fair amount of web l10n work to be done as
well.

As I already told Seth during a private mail conversation a few months
ago, I fear that we are moving towards a situation, where localizers
will have to decide whether they'll want to localize some web l10n
stuff for a new Firefox release or some product strings for Calendar
or Thunderbird.

That's certainly not an issue for the larger l10n teams, but as the
number of locales moves towards 80 (Firefox), 60 (Thunderbird), 50
(Calendar, Fennec) or 30 (SeaMonkey) this scenario will become more
and more a reality.

One obvious way to counter that would be to grow the l10n community
for existing locales. We should also think about streamlining our
l10n release processes. Tighter restrictions for the webdev and
marketing teams with regards to web content changes could also make
things easier.

Cya
Simon

--
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Thunderbird l10n blog:       http://thunderbird-l10n.blogspot.com
Calendar website maintainer: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar
Calendar developer blog:     http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar
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