FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

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FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

The Real Bev
I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites.
Since I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.

I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.

Any ideas?

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   "Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince
    parasites that they are victims."          --Thomas Sowell
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

WaltS48-5
On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites. Since
> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>
> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>
> Any ideas?
>

Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
will scroll the the tabs.

As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
the wheel.

Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.

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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

The Real Bev
On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites. Since
>> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
>> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
>> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>>
>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
>> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
> will scroll the the tabs.
>
> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
> scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
> the wheel.
>
> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.

Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to happen if
I scroll quickly.

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    Sign on restroom hand-dryer:
    "Push button for a message from your congressman."

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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

Rinaldi-2
The Real Bev decreed, Read These Runes!:

> On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites. Since
>>> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
>>> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
>>> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>>>
>>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
>>> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
>> will scroll the the tabs.
>>
>> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
>> scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
>> the wheel.
>>
>> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.
>
> Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to happen if
> I scroll quickly.

Never saw that, but I get a lot of stuttering with Hardware acceleration
enabled.

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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

WaltS48-5
In reply to this post by The Real Bev
On 8/23/17 12:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites. Since
>>> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
>>> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
>>> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>>>
>>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
>>> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
>> will scroll the the tabs.
>>
>> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
>> scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
>> the wheel.
>>
>> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.
>
> Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to happen if
> I scroll quickly.
>

Sorry, I don't have the extensions you mentioned, or 52esr installed.

This also happens when you start Firefox in safe mode?

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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

The Real Bev
On 08/23/2017 09:51 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/23/17 12:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites. Since
>>>> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
>>>> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
>>>> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>>>>
>>>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
>>>> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
>>> will scroll the the tabs.
>>>
>>> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
>>> scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
>>> the wheel.
>>>
>>> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.
>>
>> Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to happen if
>> I scroll quickly.
>
> Sorry, I don't have the extensions you mentioned, or 52esr installed.
>
> This also happens when you start Firefox in safe mode?

I'll run that for a while and see what happens.  I really HATE running
FF or TB that way, though.  The out-of-the-box versions just keeps
deteriorating in terms of ease/enjoyment of use :-(


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   "To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
    violation of the Voting Rights Act."         -- Ann Coulter
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

WaltS48-5
On 8/23/17 2:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 08/23/2017 09:51 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 8/23/17 12:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new sites.
>>>>> Since
>>>>> I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I use the mouse wheel to
>>>>> scroll upward it frequently acts like the 'back' button, and I have to
>>>>> use the actual 'back' button in order to go back to what I was
>>>>> reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs and the Tree
>>>>> Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>
>>>> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the tab bar
>>>> will scroll the the tabs.
>>>>
>>>> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left when you
>>>> scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when you scroll down using
>>>> the wheel.
>>>>
>>>> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.
>>>
>>> Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to happen if
>>> I scroll quickly.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't have the extensions you mentioned, or 52esr installed.
>>
>> This also happens when you start Firefox in safe mode?
>
> I'll run that for a while and see what happens.  I really HATE running
> FF or TB that way, though.  The out-of-the-box versions just keeps
> deteriorating in terms of ease/enjoyment of use :-(
>
>

Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was a
bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.

It does return once a download starts and stays in the toolbar until the
user restarts Nightly.

If you don't have a problem in safe mode, enable one of the tab
extensions and see if the problem returns. If not disable that one and
try the other.

--
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

The Real Bev
On 08/23/2017 12:20 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/23/17 2:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 08/23/2017 09:51 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 8/23/17 12:36 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 08/23/2017 08:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>> On 8/22/17 9:58 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>> I keep a lot of tabs open, some of which I use to go to new
>>>>>> sites. Since I switched to 64-bit FF 52ESR/linux, when I
>>>>>> use the mouse wheel to scroll upward it frequently acts
>>>>>> like the 'back' button, and I have to use the actual 'back'
>>>>>> button in order to go back to what I was reading.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've looked through the FF prefs, the Tab Mix Plus prefs
>>>>>> and the Tree Style Tabs prefs and can't find anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the scroll wheel while the mouse is positioned over the
>>>>> tab bar will scroll the the tabs.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you have discovered it will scroll the tabs to the left
>>>>> when you scroll up using the mouse wheel, and forward when
>>>>> you scroll down using the wheel.>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Solution. Move the mouse out of the tab bar.
>>>>
>>>> Mouse is in the main screen, not the tab bar.  And it seems to
>>>> happen if I scroll quickly.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't have the extensions you mentioned, or 52esr
>>> installed.
>>>
>>> This also happens when you start Firefox in safe mode?
>>
>> I'll run that for a while and see what happens.  I really HATE
>> running FF or TB that way, though.  The out-of-the-box versions
>> just keeps deteriorating in terms of ease/enjoyment of use :-(
>
> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was
> a bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
>
> It does return once a download starts and stays in the toolbar until
> the user restarts Nightly.

I hate things that disappear.  I want everything I use always visible
all the time ALWAYS!

> If you don't have a problem in safe mode, enable one of the tab
> extensions and see if the problem returns. If not disable that one
> and try the other.

I didn't have a problem, but after n hours I just got tired of dealing
with tabs across the top.  If either of the tab extensions is the cause
of the problem I'll just have to live with it.  I just can't understand
how people can stand reading partial labels horizontally :-(  Same with
the generic ls command -- if I have to use hubby's computer I can't ever
find the file I'm looking for :-(

ls -altGF --color=yes |more is the only way to fly!

--
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   "To liberals, building a wall across the Mexican border is a
    violation of the Voting Rights Act."         -- Ann Coulter
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
On 2017-08-23 15:20, WaltS48 wrote:
[...]
> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was a
> bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
[...]

Intended? I'll take your word for it.

Improvement? Not at all.

Just another example of the Moz Devs thinking they know user preferences
better than anybody else.

Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
statistics?
Answer: Damn few.
Implication: It's a non-random sample, therefore completely useless for
understanding user preferences.



--
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kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"Wanted. Schrödinger’s Cat. Dead and Alive."
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

WaltS48-5
On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:

> On 2017-08-23 15:20, WaltS48 wrote:
> [...]
>> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was
>> a bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
> [...]
>
> Intended? I'll take your word for it.
>
> Improvement? Not at all.
>
> Just another example of the Moz Devs thinking they know user preferences
> better than anybody else.
>
> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
> statistics?
> Answer: Damn few.

You have stats to back up that claim?

> Implication: It's a non-random sample, therefore completely useless for
> understanding user preferences.
>
>
>


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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

WaltS48-5
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
> On 2017-08-23 15:20, WaltS48 wrote:
> [...]
>> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was
>> a bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
> [...]
>
> Intended? I'll take your word for it.
>
> Improvement? Not at all.

I didn't think of this when I responded earlier.

I do think it makes the toolbar look cleaner.

Users don't click the Download button to start a download, it is just an
indicator of download progress, which they spent who knows how many
hours redesigning the button, changing animation and then hiding.

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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
On 2017-08-23 19:47, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>> On 2017-08-23 15:20, WaltS48 wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was
>>> a bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
>> [...]
>>
>> Intended? I'll take your word for it.
>>
>> Improvement? Not at all.
>>
>> Just another example of the Moz Devs thinking they know user
>> preferences better than anybody else.
>>
>> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
>> statistics?
>> Answer: Damn few.
>
> You have stats to back up that claim?

Unless the devs have changed things, telemetry not the default (I
suspect because if it were it would run into trouble with those
jurisdictions where privacy is more strongly protected than in the USA).
That means the telemetry activators are a self-selected group.
Self-selected groups are generally not a random sample (you know, 19
times out of 20.... ;-) )

The problem of self-selection (e.g., by dis/agreeing to do a survey
about some topic) bedevils all polls.

According to the research I've read, there is one fairly "robust"
principle: only about 10% of annoyed people complain. So complainers
represent roughly 10x their numbers.


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"Wanted. Schrödinger’s Cat. Dead and Alive."
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Re: FF annoyance -- What did I do wrong?

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
On 2017-08-23 19:53, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>> On 2017-08-23 15:20, WaltS48 wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Well, losing the Downloads button in Nightly upon an update today was
>>> a bit of a shock, but it turns out that was an intended improvement.
>> [...]
>>
>> Intended? I'll take your word for it.
>>
>> Improvement? Not at all.
>
> I didn't think of this when I responded earlier.
>
> I do think it makes the toolbar look cleaner.

Sure, but the Customization option offers more clutter... :-)

> Users don't click the Download button to start a download, it is just an
> indicator of download progress, which they spent who knows how many
> hours redesigning the button, changing animation and then hiding.

Win some, lose some.



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"Wanted. Schrödinger’s Cat. Dead and Alive."
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OT: Telemetry Data Collection

Sailfish-4
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 8/23/2017
4:47 PM:
> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>>
>> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
>> statistics?
>> Answer: Damn few.
>
> You have stats to back up that claim?
>
REF:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/mozilla_considers_move_to_opt_out_telemetry_for_firefox/

[excerpt quote=\"
Mozilla may require users to opt-out of sending telemetry from its
Firefox browser because */so few/* have opted in that it's hard for
developers to get a good sample of what causes problems.
\" /]

Also...

[excerpt quote=\"
Most controversial is the idea that the data collection let Mozilla
compile a browser-side “top 100” of sites users visit. As developer
David Teller explains, there is a “considerable bias” between users who
okay telemetry collection and those who don't, which makes it hard for
developers to optimise the browser for “websites that matter to our users”.
\" /]
The above stated reason is a bit dubious as the need to change it to
opt-out. Perhaps what it *will do* is give Mozilla a "top 100" of sites
that its users visit which seems a lot more ominous.

--
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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

Ron Hunter
On 8/25/2017 11:44 PM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 8/23/2017
> 4:47 PM:
>> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>>>
>>> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
>>> statistics?
>>> Answer: Damn few.
>>
>> You have stats to back up that claim?
>>
> REF:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/mozilla_considers_move_to_opt_out_telemetry_for_firefox/ 
>
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Mozilla may require users to opt-out of sending telemetry from its
> Firefox browser because */so few/* have opted in that it's hard for
> developers to get a good sample of what causes problems.
> \" /]
>
> Also...
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Most controversial is the idea that the data collection let Mozilla
> compile a browser-side “top 100” of sites users visit. As developer
> David Teller explains, there is a “considerable bias” between users who
> okay telemetry collection and those who don't, which makes it hard for
> developers to optimise the browser for “websites that matter to our users”.
> \" /]
> The above stated reason is a bit dubious as the need to change it to
> opt-out. Perhaps what it *will do* is give Mozilla a "top 100" of sites
> that its users visit which seems a lot more ominous.
>
If they already KNOW that users who opt out of data collection use
different websites, HOW do they justify this change?  Duh!

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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

WaltS48-5
In reply to this post by Sailfish-4
On 8/26/17 12:44 AM, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 8/23/2017
> 4:47 PM:
>> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>>>
>>> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
>>> statistics?
>>> Answer: Damn few.
>>
>> You have stats to back up that claim?
>>
> REF:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/mozilla_considers_move_to_opt_out_telemetry_for_firefox/ 
>
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Mozilla may require users to opt-out of sending telemetry from its
> Firefox browser because */so few/* have opted in that it's hard for
> developers to get a good sample of what causes problems.
> \" /]
>
> Also...
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Most controversial is the idea that the data collection let Mozilla
> compile a browser-side “top 100” of sites users visit. As developer
> David Teller explains, there is a “considerable bias” between users who
> okay telemetry collection and those who don't, which makes it hard for
> developers to optimise the browser for “websites that matter to our users”.
> \" /]
> The above stated reason is a bit dubious as the need to change it to
> opt-out. Perhaps what it *will do* is give Mozilla a "top 100" of sites
> that its users visit which seems a lot more ominous.
>

I have been following the thread on m.governance.

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/81gMQeMEL0w/OVf_NL7yCgAJ>

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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by Sailfish-4
On 2017-08-26 00:44, Sailfish wrote:

> My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 8/23/2017
> 4:47 PM:
>> On 8/23/17 7:03 PM, Wolf K wrote:
>>>
>>> Question: How many users activate the telemetry for gathering usage
>>> statistics?
>>> Answer: Damn few.
>>
>> You have stats to back up that claim?
>>
> REF:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/24/mozilla_considers_move_to_opt_out_telemetry_for_firefox/ 
>
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Mozilla may require users to opt-out of sending telemetry from its
> Firefox browser because */so few/* have opted in that it's hard for
> developers to get a good sample of what causes problems.
> \" /]

"So few have opted in". Exactly as I inferred from general principles.
Opt-in means self-selection, which means bias. The devs' past reliance
on biased telemetry data has led to some really silly design changes,
most of which have triggered comment here.

BTW, "negative option" is illegal in Canada and the EU, so Moz will get
a mostly US data, ie, just another biased sample. Also, in both
jurisdictions, the purpose for which the data will be used must be
clearly explained, and the data must be deleted when that purpose is
fulfilled.


> Also...
>
> [excerpt quote=\"
> Most controversial is the idea that the data collection let Mozilla
> compile a browser-side “top 100” of sites users visit. As developer
> David Teller explains, there is a “considerable bias” between users who
> okay telemetry collection and those who don't, which makes it hard for
> developers to optimise the browser for “websites that matter to our users”.
> \" /]
> The above stated reason is a bit dubious as the need to change it to
> opt-out. Perhaps what it *will do* is give Mozilla a "top 100" of sites
> that its users visit which seems a lot more ominous.

I think the problem is that a lot of websites are sloppily written,
and/or violate the standards. FF is known for being unforgiving with
errors. The above quote is an acknowledgment that FF has to be as
easy-going as IE and Chrome if it's to retain market share.

Just my 1.6 cents (US) worth.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"Wanted. Schrödinger’s Cat. Dead and Alive."
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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

Sailfish-4
In reply to this post by WaltS48-5
My bloviated meandering follows what WaltS48 graced us with on 8/26/2017
6:11 AM:
> On 8/26/17 12:44 AM, Sailfish wrote:

>> [excerpt quote=\"
>> Most controversial is the idea that the data collection let Mozilla
>> compile a browser-side “top 100” of sites users visit. As developer
>> David Teller explains, there is a “considerable bias” between users
>> who okay telemetry collection and those who don't, which makes it hard
>> for developers to optimise the browser for “websites that matter to
>> our users”.
>> \" /]
>> The above stated reason is a bit dubious as the need to change it to
>> opt-out. Perhaps what it *will do* is give Mozilla a "top 100" of
>> sites that its users visit which seems a lot more ominous.
>
> I have been following the thread on m.governance.
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/81gMQeMEL0w/OVf_NL7yCgAJ>
>
As I've come to expect, your response with references to more in-depth
discussion on a particular topic provides much more illumination on it
so, thanks.

I've read comments through to below-the-fold and, almost universally,
they have been steadfastly against the idea and some have indicated that
implementing this would be in violation of EU policies (although,
considering that Chrome apparently already does this, this seem less
likely), see
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mozilla.governance/81gMQeMEL0w/aXQtsyfHAQAJ

Another thing is nagging me about this is the timing. Specifically, most
users who use Fx do so for the implied anonymity of it. Most of these
users are probably, as I am, just anal about not providing information
to others who have no need to know and so are generally harmless.

However, I suspect that many use it for either illegal ventures or, more
troubling, political ventures be it the vile alt-right white
supremacists or the contemptuous alt-left antifa anarchists. Does
Mozilla really want to open the door for the community to become worried
that Mozilla is collecting this data specifically because they know that
their browser site use data will give "whomever" a more detailed look at
people's browsing habits?

--
Sailfish
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg
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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

EE-2
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
Wolf K wrote:
> I think the problem is that a lot of websites are sloppily written,
> and/or violate the standards. FF is known for being unforgiving with
> errors. The above quote is an acknowledgment that FF has to be as
> easy-going as IE and Chrome if it's to retain market share.

Chrome maybe, but IE was too sloppy.  It was insecure because it allowed
too much.

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Re: OT: Telemetry Data Collection

Daniel
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
On 26/08/2017 11:28 PM, Wolf K wrote:

<Snip>

> Just my 1.6 cents (US) worth.
>
Is that 2 cents after inflation??

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Daniel

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