FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

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FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

WaltS48-8
Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.

<https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>

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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Wolf K.
On 2017-12-14 15:19, WaltS48 wrote:
> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>
> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>

... plus a general slowing down of everything else.

Well, what do you expect when the Trumpists believe that

"Net Neutrality" is democrat-speak for government control of the Internet.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Rinaldi-2
On 12/14/2017 04:04 PM, Wolf K wrote:

> On 2017-12-14 15:19, WaltS48 wrote:
>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>
>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>
>
> ... plus a general slowing down of everything else.
>
> Well, what do you expect when the Trumpists believe that
>
> "Net Neutrality" is democrat-speak for government control of the Internet.

After all, anything less than anarchy is a non starter ;-)

Rinaldi
--
"All my life I wanted to be someone; I guess I should have been more
specific."
                -- Jane Wagner
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

andrewlb
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 12:19:16 PM UTC-8, WaltS48 wrote:
> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>
> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>
> --
> Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
> National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
> Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop

"No Net Neutrality means you might have to pay more for less internet. Programs like Firefox are only possible because of a free, open web."

What a load of horse s**t. Firefox was created and became one of the most popular web browsers available LONG before Obama illegally imposed Net Neutrality on the internet through executive order. The Internet existed without Government hand-holding for 20 years without Net Neutrality and I don't recall any ISPs throttling competitors, ramping up fees, or any of the other 'sky is falling' claims being made by proponents of Net Neutrality now that its rightfully being ended.

According to Democratic leaders in the Senate, net neutrality is the principle that “what you read, see or watch online shouldn’t be favored, blocked or slowed down based on where that content is coming from.” Google became the world’s largest corporation by trampling on this principle while the Left cheered (or turned a blind eye) .
For one, Google uses its monopoly position in internet search markets to systematically favor its own products in its search results. People might think that Google’s search service uses an objective algorithm that gives them the most relevant responses to their search inquiries. What really happens is that Google shows its own products in the most prominent positions on the screen in order to artificially divert traffic from rival services to Google’s own. As former Google designer Tristan Harris describes it, “if you control the menu, you control the choices.”
Second, Google uses its monopoly position in mobile operating systems (Android is dominant worldwide) to preserve and strengthen its dominance in general internet search and over consumer data collection by:

- Forcing manufacturers to pre-install Google Search and Google’s Chrome browser and set Google Search as the default search service on their devices as a condition to licensing Google’s proprietary apps,

- Blocking manufacturers from selling mobile devices that use competing operating systems that are based on Android’s supposedly “open source” code (like Amazon’s Kindle Fire), and

- Giving financial incentives to manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-install Google Search on their devices (a form of paid prioritization).

Google uses these tactics to ‘control the menu’ on the vast majority of the world’s mobile devices like Google controls the menu on its search products themselves.

Third, Google uses its dominant position in internet advertising to favor its own search and advertising services. A substantial portion of Google’s revenue from search advertising comes from a limited number of third-parties with whom Google has exclusive deals. For a decade, these deals required third-parties to:

- Refuse to source search ads from Google’s competitors,

- Take a minimum number of ads from Google and reserve premium space for Google search ads, and

- Obtain approval from Google before making any changes to the display of competing search ads.

None of these Google practices are consistent with the Left’s net neutrality principles or fair competition. In 2012, staff at the Federal Trade Commission concluded that Google’s anticompetitive conduct had strengthened its monopolies and caused “real harm to consumers and to innovation” that “will have lasting negative effects on consumer welfare.” Yet the Obama administration decided to focus its energy on ISPs while letting Google run wild. Obama appointees at the FTC gave short shrift to the findings of the agency’s professional staff while the Obama-led Federal Communications Commission exempted Google’s monopolies from the current net neutrality rules.

The results were predictable: Google is now the largest company in the world and has unprecedented power to control what we read, see, or watch online. Rather than reign Google in, the net neutrality rules the Left wants to preserve have served to strengthen Google’s control over the media.

The current net neutrality debate is just “fighting the last war.” It’s time to have an honest conversation about today’s real internet monopolies and the future of a free media in this country.
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Mark12547
In article <[hidden email]>,
[hidden email] says...
>  I don't recall any ISPs throttling competitors, ramping up fees,
> or any of the other 'sky is falling' claims being made by proponents
> of Net Neutrality now that its rightfully being ended.
>  

There was the time that streaming on Netflix by Comcast customers became
painfully slow to nonexistent (prime time) ... until Netflix broke down
and became a direct customer of Comcast so Netflix servers would feed
Comcast instead of using a separate interconnect to send streams to
Comcast customers.

That may have been more business rules (naturally each side played up
its side and downplayed the other side until they had finally signed a
contract and Netflix servers had direct connections to Comcast).

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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Ron Hunter
In reply to this post by WaltS48-8
On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>
> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>
>
So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
Much ado about nothing.

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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Daniel-2
In reply to this post by andrewlb
[hidden email] wrote:
> On Thursday, December 14, 2017 at 12:19:16 PM UTC-8, WaltS48 wrote:
>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>
>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>> >
> "No Net Neutrality means you might have to pay more for less internet. Programs like Firefox are only possible because of a free, open web."
>
> What a load of horse s**t. Firefox was created and became one of the most popular web browsers available LONG before Obama illegally imposed Net Neutrality on the internet through executive order. The Internet existed without Government hand-holding for 20 years without Net Neutrality and I don't recall any ISPs throttling competitors, ramping up fees, or any of the other 'sky is falling' claims being made by proponents of Net Neutrality now that its rightfully being ended.

Didn't Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore have something to do with the
invention of the Internet?? ;-P

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.49.1 Build identifier: 20171016030418

Go Dallas Cowgirls!! .... Er, Um, ... I  mean "Go Dallas Cowboys!!"
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

PietB-2
Daniel wrote:
> Didn't Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore have something to
> do with the invention of the Internet?? ;-P

No, he was CTO of Climate Change on the Internet. :-)

-p

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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Daniel-2
PietB wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>> Didn't Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore have something to
>> do with the invention of the Internet?? ;-P
>
> No, he was CTO of Climate Change on the Internet. :-)
>
> -p
>
Yeap!! I may have selected the wrong V.P.!! It might have been Dan
Quayle that I was thinking about!! ;-(

--
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Ed Mullen-10
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital genius:
> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>
>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>
>>
> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
> Much ado about nothing.
>

+1

--
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http://edmullen.net/
"You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to
skydive twice."
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

WaltS48-8
On 12/15/17 9:22 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:

> On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital
> genius:
>> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>
>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>>
>>>
>> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
>> Much ado about nothing.
>>
>
> +1
>

Are you sure about that?

Your ISP isn't going to throttle your connections to certain sites like
Comcast did with Netflix, and who knows what else the providers have in
mind.

How about.

Greetings User,

We have noticed you get over 100 emails a day. This puts a strain on our
servers, so to provide you with the best possible service, we will be
charging you ten cents an email for each email over 50 that you receive.

This charge will be automatically be added to your monthly bill.

Thanks for being a customer.

Your ISP.

--
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National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Ron Hunter
On 12/15/2017 8:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:

> On 12/15/17 9:22 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>> On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital
>> genius:
>>> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>>
>>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
>>> Much ado about nothing.
>>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>
> Are you sure about that?
>
> Your ISP isn't going to throttle your connections to certain sites like
> Comcast did with Netflix, and who knows what else the providers have in
> mind.
>
> How about.
>
> Greetings User,
>
> We have noticed you get over 100 emails a day. This puts a strain on our
> servers, so to provide you with the best possible service, we will be
> charging you ten cents an email for each email over 50 that you receive.
>
> This charge will be automatically be added to your monthly bill.
>
> Thanks for being a customer.
>
> Your ISP.
>
You don't believe in paying for services received?  Why should I pay the
same for sending maybe 10 emails a month, which you send 100 a day?  And
what business is it of government to take a hand in this?
You want 100mbps, you pay more.  You want to stream movies, pay more for
the bandwidth.  Supply and demand at work.  What you mean is that you
want others to pay for your fun.

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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Disaster Master
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
On 12/14/2017, 5:04:02 PM, Wolf K <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 2017-12-14 15:19, WaltS48 wrote:
>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>
>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>
> ... plus a general slowing down of everything else.

This is such hyper-hysterical nonsense it befuddles the mind.

Fear not, little snowflake, the world is not ending just because the FCC
is undoing some rules changes based on ancient (83+ year old) statutory
law, and was only in effect for two years (you did know that didn't you?)...

> Well, what do you expect when the Trumpists believe that
> "Net Neutrality" is democrat-speak for government control of the Internet.

I try to remember that statists will always believe what they want to
believe ignoring history and the plain reality staring them in the face.

The fact is, we don't need Wheeler/Obama's 'net neutrality' government
overreach, we need Congress to completely rewrite the Communications Act
of 1934 (the underlying basis for Title II, that people scream about
without understanding one iota of what they are screaming about).
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

WaltS48-8
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 12/15/17 9:41 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 12/15/2017 8:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 12/15/17 9:22 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital
>>> genius:
>>>> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
>>>> Much ado about nothing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure about that?
>>
>> Your ISP isn't going to throttle your connections to certain sites
>> like Comcast did with Netflix, and who knows what else the providers
>> have in mind.
>>
>> How about.
>>
>> Greetings User,
>>
>> We have noticed you get over 100 emails a day. This puts a strain on
>> our servers, so to provide you with the best possible service, we will
>> be charging you ten cents an email for each email over 50 that you
>> receive.
>>
>> This charge will be automatically be added to your monthly bill.
>>
>> Thanks for being a customer.
>>
>> Your ISP.
>>
> You don't believe in paying for services received?  Why should I pay the
> same for sending maybe 10 emails a month, which you send 100 a day?  And
> what business is it of government to take a hand in this?
> You want 100mbps, you pay more.  You want to stream movies, pay more for
> the bandwidth.  Supply and demand at work.  What you mean is that you
> want others to pay for your fun.
>

How are others paying, when the bills are all the same?

--
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National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS - Unity Desktop
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Wolf K.
In reply to this post by Wolf K.
On 2017-12-15 09:46, Disaster Master wrote:

> On 12/14/2017, 5:04:02 PM, Wolf K <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2017-12-14 15:19, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>
>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>
>> ... plus a general slowing down of everything else.
>
> This is such hyper-hysterical nonsense it befuddles the mind.
>
> Fear not, little snowflake, the world is not ending just because the FCC
> is undoing some rules changes based on ancient (83+ year old) statutory
> law, and was only in effect for two years (you did know that didn't you?)...
>
>> Well, what do you expect when the Trumpists believe that
>> "Net Neutrality" is democrat-speak for government control of the Internet.
>
> I try to remember that statists will always believe what they want to
> believe ignoring history and the plain reality staring them in the face.
>
> The fact is, we don't need Wheeler/Obama's 'net neutrality' government
> overreach, we need Congress to completely rewrite the Communications Act
> of 1934 (the underlying basis for Title II, that people scream about
> without understanding one iota of what they are screaming about).

I try to remember that anti-statists will always believe what they want
to believe.......

And I note that anti-statists expect the state to implement their beliefs.

Not that this exchange of opinions will have any effect. The ruling
classes will control the internet regardless of who is the White House
or in Congress. Buying favourable legislation is as American as apple
pie, and has been from the founding of the Republic..

(Nit pick: Apple pie is actually an English invention.)

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

tanstaafl-2
On 12/15/2017, 10:32:08 AM, Wolf K <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I try to remember that anti-statists will always believe what they want
> to believe.......

Actually, everyone believes what they want to believe, and most are
incapable of separating fantasy from reality. Thankfully I don't suffer
from HITS (HeadInTheSand) disease.

> And I note that anti-statists expect the state to implement their beliefs.

Typical nonsensical gibberish from a HITS sufferer.
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by PietB-2
On 12/15/2017 04:50 AM, PietB wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>> Didn't Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore have something to
>> do with the invention of the Internet?? ;-P
>
> No, he was CTO of Climate Change on the Internet. :-)

CFO, and made a bundle from it!


--
Cheers, Bev
   VISE GRIPS (VYS'-gripz) [n]  A tool used to transfer intense
   welding heat to the palm of the welder's hand.         -- DS
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

The Real Bev
In reply to this post by Ron Hunter
On 12/15/2017 06:41 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:

> On 12/15/2017 8:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 12/15/17 9:22 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>> On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital
>>> genius:
>>>> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>>>>
>>>> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
>>>> Much ado about nothing.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure about that?
>>
>> Your ISP isn't going to throttle your connections to certain sites like
>> Comcast did with Netflix, and who knows what else the providers have in
>> mind.
>>
>> How about.
>>
>> Greetings User,
>>
>> We have noticed you get over 100 emails a day. This puts a strain on our
>> servers, so to provide you with the best possible service, we will be
>> charging you ten cents an email for each email over 50 that you receive.
>>
>> This charge will be automatically be added to your monthly bill.
>>
>> Thanks for being a customer.
>>
>> Your ISP.
>>
> You don't believe in paying for services received?  Why should I pay the
> same for sending maybe 10 emails a month, which you send 100 a day?  And
> what business is it of government to take a hand in this?
> You want 100mbps, you pay more.  You want to stream movies, pay more for
> the bandwidth.  Supply and demand at work.  What you mean is that you
> want others to pay for your fun.

I'm already paying Charter $65/month for my fun.  Prices have been going
up forever, along with nominal speeds, but the perceived speed hasn't
changed for years.  Given that Charter canceled nntp service years ago
(after a few years of bad service that you couldn't even talk to the
droids about because none of them knew what usenet or nntp was -- one
thought it was some sort of satellite thing) without cutting the price,
I can see them implementing additional charges for whatever the fsck
they think they can get away with.

ISPs are common carriers now,  Pretending that they're something else is
definitely profitable, though.

--
Cheers, Bev
   VISE GRIPS (VYS'-gripz) [n]  A tool used to transfer intense
   welding heat to the palm of the welder's hand.         -- DS
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

The Real Bev
On 12/15/2017 11:42 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 12/15/2017 06:41 AM, Ron Hunter wrote:
>> On 12/15/2017 8:30 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 12/15/17 9:22 AM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>>> On 12/15/2017 at 2:41 AM, Ron Hunter created this epitome of digital
>>>> genius:
>>>>> On 12/14/2017 2:19 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>>>>> Get ready to pay more to access some content and services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/14/todays-net-neutrality-vote-an-unsurprising-unfortunate-disappointment/>
>>>>>>
>>>>> So, things revert to how they were before 2015.  Was it so bad then?
>>>>> Much ado about nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure about that?
>>>
>>> Your ISP isn't going to throttle your connections to certain sites like
>>> Comcast did with Netflix, and who knows what else the providers have in
>>> mind.
>>>
>>> How about.
>>>
>>> Greetings User,
>>>
>>> We have noticed you get over 100 emails a day. This puts a strain on our
>>> servers, so to provide you with the best possible service, we will be
>>> charging you ten cents an email for each email over 50 that you receive.
>>>
>>> This charge will be automatically be added to your monthly bill.
>>>
>>> Thanks for being a customer.
>>>
>>> Your ISP.
>>>
>> You don't believe in paying for services received?  Why should I pay the
>> same for sending maybe 10 emails a month, which you send 100 a day?  And
>> what business is it of government to take a hand in this?
>> You want 100mbps, you pay more.  You want to stream movies, pay more for
>> the bandwidth.  Supply and demand at work.  What you mean is that you
>> want others to pay for your fun.
>
> I'm already paying Charter $65/month for my fun.  Prices have been going
> up forever, along with nominal speeds, but the perceived speed hasn't
> changed for years.  Given that Charter canceled nntp service years ago
> (after a few years of bad service that you couldn't even talk to the
> droids about because none of them knew what usenet or nntp was -- one
> thought it was some sort of satellite thing) without cutting the price,
> I can see them implementing additional charges for whatever the fsck
> they think they can get away with.
>
> ISPs are common carriers now,  Pretending that they're something else is
> definitely profitable, though.

Addendum:  They're also government-created monopolies in most cases,
which makes the idea of 'competition' laughable.

--
Cheers, Bev
   VISE GRIPS (VYS'-gripz) [n]  A tool used to transfer intense
   welding heat to the palm of the welder's hand.         -- DS
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Re: FCC votes to remove protections for the open Internet in the USA.

Frank-32
In reply to this post by Mark12547
On 12/15/2017 1:18 AM, Mark12547 wrote:

> In article <[hidden email]>,
> [hidden email] says...
>>   I don't recall any ISPs throttling competitors, ramping up fees,
>> or any of the other 'sky is falling' claims being made by proponents
>> of Net Neutrality now that its rightfully being ended.
>>  
>
> There was the time that streaming on Netflix by Comcast customers became
> painfully slow to nonexistent (prime time) ... until Netflix broke down
> and became a direct customer of Comcast so Netflix servers would feed
> Comcast instead of using a separate interconnect to send streams to
> Comcast customers.
>
> That may have been more business rules (naturally each side played up
> its side and downplayed the other side until they had finally signed a
> contract and Netflix servers had direct connections to Comcast).
>

I have Comcast with their X1 which has a Netflix ap if you subscribe to
Netflix which I do.  Works almost flawless.  Last night I had heard
about the Ozarks series, just spoke Ozarks into the remote and the
series popped up to view.

Put yourself under the protection of the government and next thing you
know they are squeezing you.  You can change services, isp's etc but you
can't change government if it does not suit you.
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