Device Independence: 3 years later....

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Device Independence: 3 years later....

Jonathan Chetwynd
Device Independence: 3 years later....

Aaron,

what is the problem in implementing bug 273704?

"Tool-tip not displayed when user TABBED thru elements having title  
attr"

This bug was filed nearly three years ago.

Do you visualise the title info being:
in the status bar?
in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
or perhaps over the titled element?

I'm really struggling to understand the delay.

regards

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273704

device independence 9.2:
"Ensure that any element that has its own interface can be operated  
in a device-independent manner."
http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#gl-device-independence



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Re: Device Independence: 3 years later....

Aaron Leventhal-3
Sounds like a rhetorical question to me.

If you want to contribute to Firefox 3 you don't have to be a coder BTW. I know
you don't want to hear that, but hey, this is free software. If you want to have
a positive impact on our project and community, then understand first that we
have too much to do and work overtime on this project.

- Aaron


~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:

> Device Independence: 3 years later....
>
> Aaron,
>
> what is the problem in implementing bug 273704?
>
> "Tool-tip not displayed when user TABBED thru elements having title attr"
>
> This bug was filed nearly three years ago.
>
> Do you visualise the title info being:
> in the status bar?
> in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
> or perhaps over the titled element?
>
> I'm really struggling to understand the delay.
>
> regards
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>
>
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273704
>
> device independence 9.2:
> "Ensure that any element that has its own interface can be operated in a
> device-independent manner."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#gl-device-independence
>
>
>
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Re: Device Independence: 3 years later....

Jonathan Chetwynd
Aaron,

how about answering the query?

> Do you visualise the title info being:
> in the status bar?
> in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
> or perhaps over the titled element?

that also doesn't require coding (yet)...

we're all overworked, and many volunteers, three years is a long  
while to wait for no progress on this issue.

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



On 4 Sep 2007, at 17:23, Aaron Leventhal wrote:

Sounds like a rhetorical question to me.

If you want to contribute to Firefox 3 you don't have to be a coder  
BTW. I know
you don't want to hear that, but hey, this is free software. If you  
want to have
a positive impact on our project and community, then understand first  
that we
have too much to do and work overtime on this project.

- Aaron


~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:

> Device Independence: 3 years later....
>
> Aaron,
>
> what is the problem in implementing bug 273704?
>
> "Tool-tip not displayed when user TABBED thru elements having title  
> attr"
>
> This bug was filed nearly three years ago.
>
> Do you visualise the title info being:
> in the status bar?
> in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
> or perhaps over the titled element?
>
> I'm really struggling to understand the delay.
>
> regards
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>
>
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273704
>
> device independence 9.2:
> "Ensure that any element that has its own interface can be operated  
> in a
> device-independent manner."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#gl-device-independence
>
>
>
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Re: Device Independence: 3 years later....

Steve Lee-3
On 05/09/07, "~:'' ありがとうございました。" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> how about answering the query?

Hi Jonathan, I think you have Aaron's answer in the bug: it won't make
FF 3 so there's no effort going to be spent on it till after that
lands. Sometimes hard decisions on priorities have to be made given
limited resources.

I don't want to appear to speak for Aaron but my guess is that the bug
merits considerable thought in order to pick the solution that: has
the best accessibility,  does not cause knock-on UI problems, fits in
with any appropriate W3C UA guidelines and also possibly avoids
pitfalls from the alt/title attribute mis-use history of other
browsers.

Steve
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Re: Device Independence: 3 years later....

Jonathan Chetwynd
Steve,

you may well be right, however whilst an apology might be OTT

Aaron's attitude seems pretty unreasonable, 3 years is a long time,
not to have even got started on discussing this issue.

It's a significant issue, and as a minimum the options should be  
discussed publicly
unless a decision has already been reached.

thinking for 3 years seems not to have defined the issue much, so  
far.....

cheers

~:"

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet



On 5 Sep 2007, at 10:02, Steve Lee wrote:

On 05/09/07, "~:'' ありがとうございました。"  
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> how about answering the query?

Hi Jonathan, I think you have Aaron's answer in the bug: it won't make
FF 3 so there's no effort going to be spent on it till after that
lands. Sometimes hard decisions on priorities have to be made given
limited resources.

I don't want to appear to speak for Aaron but my guess is that the bug
merits considerable thought in order to pick the solution that: has
the best accessibility,  does not cause knock-on UI problems, fits in
with any appropriate W3C UA guidelines and also possibly avoids
pitfalls from the alt/title attribute mis-use history of other
browsers.

Steve
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Where is 'title' info, when navigating without a mouse.

Jonathan Chetwynd
In reply to this post by Jonathan Chetwynd
Aaron,

3 years is far too long for your only response to be:
"Feel free to remind me after Firefox 3 that we should take a look at  
it."

as Steve has suggested there may be much to consider in this 'major'  
bug,

If not on this list...
Could you suggest where and with whom this bug could be publicised  
and discussed?

I've mentioned 3 possibilities. Could you comment on or add to them?

if you are not able to provide some further evidence of intention  
this bug will be marked as wontfix
My bugs are being rationalised.

cheers

Jonathan Chetwynd
Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273704

> Do you visualise the title info being:
> in the status bar?
> in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
> or perhaps over the titled element?

as suggested by Steve "this bug merits considerable thought in order  
to pick the solution that: has the best accessibility,  does not  
cause knock-on UI problems, fits in with any appropriate W3C UA  
guidelines and also possibly avoids pitfalls from the alt/title  
attribute mis-use history of other browsers."


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Re: Where is 'title' info, when navigating without a mouse.

Aaron Leventhal-3
In reply to this post by Jonathan Chetwynd
Jonathan,

It's nothing against you ... at least not yet, unless you keep this up :)
Seriously, please understand that the current approach your taking is not
pleasant for us. If you want to be the squeaky wheel for accessibility (we all
have to do that from time to time), then please first try bring up the bug at a
time not just when a product release is starting to go into freeze. We're
hectic, and you're not going to make any friends this way. That's unfortunate --
a11y folks need to work together.

We're busy until after Firefox 3, with finishing up support for IAccessible,
ATK/AT-SPI and ARIA, not to mention keeping up with Mozilla UI and platform
changes. I'll be happy to look at it after that.

- Aaron




~:'' ありがとうございました。 wrote:

> Aaron,
>
> 3 years is far too long for your only response to be:
> "Feel free to remind me after Firefox 3 that we should take a look at it."
>
> as Steve has suggested there may be much to consider in this 'major' bug,
>
> If not on this list...
> Could you suggest where and with whom this bug could be publicised and
> discussed?
>
> I've mentioned 3 possibilities. Could you comment on or add to them?
>
> if you are not able to provide some further evidence of intention this
> bug will be marked as wontfix
> My bugs are being rationalised.
>
> cheers
>
> Jonathan Chetwynd
> Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=273704
>
>> Do you visualise the title info being:
>> in the status bar?
>> in an optional toolbar? perhaps above or below the status bar?
>> or perhaps over the titled element?
>
> as suggested by Steve "this bug merits considerable thought in order to
> pick the solution that: has the best accessibility,  does not cause
> knock-on UI problems, fits in with any appropriate W3C UA guidelines and
> also possibly avoids pitfalls from the alt/title attribute mis-use
> history of other browsers."
>
>
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